UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum Early SS dagger Gottlieb Hammesfahr Solingen-Foche

Hi all,

Before I proudly shoot "my" dagger in here, Id like to tell a bit about Hammesfahr. 'Cause, we'll need at least a BIT about what were having here, no? So, Hammesfahr, was founded late during 17th century. 1684 to be precise. And they used the logo that they had (piramid) from 1898 onward. The Hammesfahr company REALLY got famous during World War II? But lets wait a sec, and look back a bit.

The official date that the Hammesfahr factory was founded, is 1804. Hammesfahr was a registered in Chamber of Commerce on October 12 of year 1875. At that period Hammesfahr was the biggest cutleryproducer in the town Solingen. The firm specialized in forging (Gesenkschmiede), making knives, tools + blacksmithing.

Before we go to the 3rd Reich era, we need to know that Hammesfahr went in business with AG, Nirosta-Werk. This AG Nirosta got to be a popular brand of Hammesfahr. The company Gottlieb Hammesfahr & Co. AG Nirosta-Werk was working from Solingen-Foche. The address from 1939 to 1970 was Focherstraße 60 in Solingen-Foche. This is a bit important. We KNOW Nirosta as Solinger Metallwarenfabrik BUT, maybe its more clear when I type SMF. This is a makermark for SA daggers too! Also known as Stöcker & Co. This Stöcker & Co/SMF/Solinger Metallwaffenfabrik was founded in 1897.

Back to Gottlieb-Hammesfahr. During the Third Reich, Hammesfahr made both SA and SS daggers. The early daggers had the oval trademark. Later daggers could have other trademarks too. I was able to find some numbers that were used also besides RZM code; LD/8, WMO/32/506 and WW189/753. SMF/Stöcker had M7/9 as RZM license, Hammesfahr got M7/67. Mind that Gottlieb Hammesfahr is NOT Hammesfahr & Cie, they had the swimmer-logo for early daggers BUT dit NOT get RZM license.

In 1939 the company owner is Ernst Gottlieb Hammesfahr. In 1942 they made cutlery, scissors, pocket knives and razors with the brands Pyramide and Nirosta. This Nirosta, is a couple 1st letters from words combined, like so; NIROSTA = NICHT ROSTENDER STAHL. Or, in english, neverrusting steel, or unrustable steel, something like that. The Nirosta® registered trademark was claimed in 1922. Some other Nirosta info is here.

The Hammesfahr company was taken over by Wilkens Bremer Silberwaren in 1971. Wilkens Bremer Silberwaren reorganized the company and it still exists today;
Link to Company
Link to Company background
Link to Repairservice from a real Hammesfahr trained employee

Shortlist of facts for Gottlieb Hammesfahr & Co. AG, Nirosta-Werk, Solingen-Foche;
Used company brands: Pyramide, Gottlieb Hammesfahr, Foche, Gottlieb Hammesfahr, Solingen-Foche, pyramid, Nirosta, No Rusteel.
Used company Trademarks: two rings, a pyramid with a cross, cross over two rings, RZM code M7/67, Kurzzeichen cvp (from march 1941).

The Hammesfahr-name is found in other steel-firms too;
Karl Hammesfahr, Fabrikation feiner Stahlwaren, Solingen-Foche, was on the Bergstraße, 9 (1922)
Otto Hammesfahr, Besteckfabrik, Solingen-Ohligs, Schulstraße 22 (1935) and Renpatt 22 (1939)
Hammesfahr & Cie. or Gustav Hammesfahr, Messer und Scheren-Fabrik Solingen, Donaustraße 35 (1939)

The 1st 2 Hammesfahrs are unknown? But the 3rd, well, maybe someone with a Dolch by that maker will have fun diving into that maker? Also, some info on bayonets, might be nice, a little while ago, someone had a bayonet made by an SA maker, so, why not put the stuff I found here too. I dont know what these are, and, it was to far away from this story to dive in, but, you guys probably know anyway;

S 98/05 bayonets, made from 1915 to 1918. Usually made together with other firms. The early bayonets have the trademark with the curvy company name. Most of them got marked with Erfurt Arsenal. Later bayonets with pyramid-trademark got stamped with 3 trademarks Kopp Werke AG in Bielefeld, Dietrich in Altenburg and Schubert & Salzer in Chemnitz.

S 84/98 bayonets were made from 1915 to 1917. Most of these got branded Bayard and trademark Anciens Etablissements Pieper in Liège. Close combat knives (Nahkampmesser) were also made in this period and also had the 3 trademarks.

I found a little reference to 2 books somewhere here, so, maybe its interesting to know that hese titles exist? The Goins Encyclopedia of Cutlery markings and Anthony Carters The Sword and Knife Makers of Germany 1850-2000. I think these above things + many more can be found in those books.

Enjoy,
Karin-Renate

Hi all,

So, the reason for the intro above? Here it is! Ive had this for a few days now but havent gotten used to THIS biggy yet. Also I couldnt post just yet without doing my homework now could I? Wheres the fun in THAT? So, now that we know something more about Hammesfahr, here is "my" Hammesfahr. I also got the original sellers text, and, Im very sure this says it better then I can. Ill paste it below I hope my loud raving cheers, mad stomping around + random happycries of WTF wont interrupt your reading ...

"Another SS from an Ohio Veteran's family. This one has some age to the first 1" obverse up from the crossguard. Seen this before, someone left this stored with the blade partially pulled out and exposed. The age perfectly meets the radius of the scabbard throat. Motto and maker mark show a nice dark contrast to the blade. Blade is a full 220mm, textbook length. Perfect point with no sharpening. There are some scratches and the blade has good crossgrain. Certainly conservatively Exc+. The nickel-silver fittings are all well fit as one expects to see on these early quality pieces. All the angles and radii are correct. Lower crossguard is properly marked "III". The grip is a nice heavy example with a single flake to the lower left crossgraud fit. The eagle is a correct nickel version and the runes have 100% of enamel. The scabbard fits the dagger perfect and all the patina matches nicely. The dent-free scabbard has a well worn anodized finish. The scabbard ring is lost. I just don't have a replacement right now and besides I like to sell 'em how they come in. The ball is damage free. All the screws are all intact. The fittings themselves are nickel silver. It all fits perfectly. This one if for you guys who like them unmessed with. Original never been apart dagger. Overall Exc+"

I love this. I cant believe this. This cant EVER be topped. How COOL is THIS? Gosh ... Now, youll understand that Ill need to not ever let go of this ever. Parading this through the streets could be a problem for legal issues maybe ... could be a potential buzzkill *LOL* So, if Im out for a bit ... Im probably held for flashing forbidden weaponry in public

The pics truly DONT do much justice, maybe I should shoot again, but, enjoy,
Karin-Renate

More pics, never enuff pics ... ALSO, last view of the dagger ever in its scabbard I also see I, yet AGAIN, I never learn, didnt wipe the oil off the blade very well? Sorry 'bout that. Still, enjoy the pics!

WOW! Karin, a fantastic SS you have there! Being a history buff, I want to thank you for adding so much info on the Companies that made these daggers that we covet. Best, Erich

Hello Karin! Is this your first S/S dagger? If so, "Welcome to the Dark Side"! Your's is an extremely nice example of a maker that is not that easy to find. The vertical hanger is "icing on the cake"! I must say, your enthusiasm and historical research is a welcome addition to this forum. Your photography skills are top-notch as well. Regards, Leipzig
P.S. A helpful hint, I protect all my leather items, dagger hangers, pistol holsters, etc. with KIWI brand, clear/neutral shoe polish, the paste, not the liquid.

welcome to the Dark Side of the Dagger Community & congrats with your new SS dagger.

Regards LH

Lovely dagger Karin congratulations..... As the Vader would say "Give yourself to the darkside" once you start with these blackies its very difficult to stop. Your pics also seem to be getting alot clearer and better.
Regards Adam

Great photos Karin unfortunately in this hobby they are never enough. One can never satisfy his/her appetite for the appreciation of such history. Just like potato chips,, you cant eat just one!! IMO SS daggers are more mysterious than those of the SA. Although the are both heinous but like LH600 said



something evil about those SS daggers that leaves the door open for more research and questions.

A Boker SS gives me the shivers just looking at the logo
Great dagger Karin!! Best Larry

Karin,

Thank you for enlightening us on the Hammesfhar company. It makes for very interesting reading. Your dagger is exceptional and it truly has a good home.

I think this should be made a sticky for the info it contains on the Hammesfhar company.

Hi all,

Wow, I truly didnt think so many positive replies would be waiting here! This is GREAT guys, THANKS so much! OK, I'm a couple'f days behind in my response, I'm very sorry ... I wont shoot a bunch of separate replies in here, but I'll do just 1, replying to all, people wont read anymore otherwise I think, plus Id just clutter up the topic?



THANKS Erich! Thats a BIG compliment coming from you! I like history too? It was great fun diving in this 1. Well, how could I not? Something huge like this? And, it even gives SO much more to enjoy about this dagger!

Still, things were helpful when finding info ... it helped that this touches many other things. Like, tableware, general cutlery, jewelry even, other knifes like bayonets, general steel items, parts and so on, and razors. All of that has collectors! Tableware has MUCH collecting-info. And the razor-collectors form actually a large group!

They even have quite a large females-group too! Awesome. Im tempted to try 1 of those real straight-razors myself, they are SO pretty! But, I want to keep the number of scars on my legs down as much as I still can *LOL* Still, very nice!

All these communities have info. Bits, pieces. The company itself has MUCH info as well! And that it still exists today helps! You can even find info in official business + government archives. Truly VERY cool! But, everything helped. And, learning all of that, really rewards itself! How can I ever stop loving this dagger now?! Look how it fits in everything, that entire period in history? Gosh ... Anyway, Im glad some people like it as much as I do.



Hey Leipzig! YES, "my" 1st SS! And probably the only 1. I mean, my god, these MUST cost about a couple of years of education?! No, I don't want to know what prices these go for! Truly I dont! It'll scare me, I think, so, PLEASE, DONT tell me ... to me, its priceless!

That darkside? I now know, its REAL! Just "feel" an SS dagger, and then, an SA? The SS actually feels colder? Seriously! Reckon its all in my head, but still ... its not AT ALL like an SA. Its different. And also A LOT heavier? Anyway, if you feel it, up close? Its almost, as if, that ceremony, the handout of the daggers, to that very selective few ... the occult atmosphere, Himmler's influence, and the indoctrination, of Treue, the group before yourself, the Führer before yourself, its all trapped in that dagger ... OR, Im just imagining it maybe *LOL*

That shoepolish-hint is actually very good! I found some leather care stuff in the cupboards here, some natural products too, colourless, with beeswax and so on? Anyway, how often do I grease the hanger up?



Thanks LH That dark side, well, I said it above; its true, it exists! Speaking of which, do any of you have pics of the actual handing out of daggers to SS men? Or a description of WHAT went on during that ceremony? Some vague general info is out there, but, what was it like?!



Thanks Adam I guess a bit of your fotoshooting tip applies; no direct sun! Well, not all pics anyway. Ill try your advice for sure and let you know. Vader, OK, it took me some time to figure this Vader out? *LOL* Thats Lord Vader I guess? Im not much of a trekkie Adam Sorry. Oh, and, I dunno, even, if I would want another? That sounds crazy, I guess, but, this dagger? I mean, you KNOW, you probably have great numbers of them? But, to me, this is, like, wow, SO VERY special, its HUGE ... Gosh, I wanna enjoy the hell outa this 1



Why the shivers by the Böker-logo? I like it! I like the story behind it too! And I like the fact that a part of that very tree is still at the Böker factory! YES! Trees are awesome. And potatochips? Weeeeeeeell, not so special. But, pistachio nuts, or cashews? Ill eat myself silly on those! The mystery, yes, I agree! I mentioned it above, that darkside? Is really there! Feel an SS dagger, and know it. That door to more research is indeed open. Thats why I asked about them ceremonies above. This SS, and the occult, and, well, just everything around it, Himmler's vision, sure am looking into THAT. Thats actually another aspect Im interested in, the entire Völkische thing, and the values, morals, the paganism even, of the germanic people those days? Weird how it got SO VERY horribly out of hand ...



Hi Bernie
I havent had the pleasure yet I think? Famous name though ... thanks for stopping by! And you're very welcome Like I said above, it was great fun! And things in this case were helpful! Its more difficult to find something on an unknown medalmaker that doesnt exist anymore. I think SS daggers make THE most involving, mysterious + controversial things the company made. These daggers got made by the finest of the finest makers. This dagger shows it. Im telling you, its 1 HEAVY dagger! Wow ... Stupid question? I think Im not sure on stickies? What is it?

Thank you all so much for the overwhelming response guys! Sorry, again, Im so late responding to all of you ...

Sincerely,
Karin-Renate

Karin , Excellent 1st SS dagger Congrats to you , Great Info on the G Hammesfahr Compant as well , you could get a great job somewhere in research with these skills.

Hey Scott

Thanx! And, NO FAIR! I told you what kinda job I have *LOL* I think? Besides answering phones, typing letters + taking care of visitors/guests/relations? Im sent of to libraries or docu-centers like EVD Maybe that rubbed off a bit? Anyway, nice of you to stop by!

Im beginning to understand that some people want to buy this dagger for some reason? Its not for sale, sorry people ... it really aint.

Sincerely,
Karin-Renate

Karin, very nice SS, congratulations.

Sincerely,

Ricardo

Hello everyone,

Even MORE info, on your dagger(s), or even this, YES! this one, REALLY!! on the etching of the blade, for instance, something about the ß, but, go see for yerself! you can find in Die Dienstdolch der Schutzstaffel SS, by member Ralf Siegert! Its truly amazing how thick this book is! Almost 2 times as big as the book on SA's? Anyhow, wow, SO much pics, I think I see some more familiar daggers too, no? And scans of prewar/wardocuments on these, so very much infos, even pics on etchings made, and blades made, and, so much much more! Havent read it yet, but, just have a look, looking dont hurt, yes? Its in German, but still. I had a interruption from holiday, but, this is a great read for the 2nd part, that starts now. Best wishes everyone!

Cheers,
KR

My first SS-dagger i bought was also Hammesfahr,,

Congrats of a fine looking dagger

and thank you for the info about the company,,,

yet again welcome to the dark side,

cheers

Hi Karin:

Excellent research and presentation. Thanks! I too have been interested in the the process for the distribution of the SS daggers. It has been written that they were distributed when the new SS men took their oath at the Feldernhalle in Munich. I have found photographs (and others have been published) that show this ceremony, but nothing showing the distribution of daggers at that time and would be interested in knowing the basis for that conclusion. The paper trail I have seen in the SS unit administrative records leads me to believe that orders for daggers went from the Sturm to their SS-Standarte headquarters which forwarded orders to their regional Oberabschnitte. The dagger orders were then placed by the Oberabschnitte with the manufacturers who delivered the daggers to the SS-Standarte. I have not found anything yet about how they were then distributed within the Sturm once they were delivered. Maybe others have some documentation to help fill in the process. I have recently identified two numbered service daggers both made by the same uncommon maker that were given to men in the same SS-Standarte but in different Sturms. This is the first time I have been able to do this and supports that manufacturers shipped daggers directly to SS-Standartes.


Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com