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All,

Wanted to share with you my most recent find.
This is a German Air Sports formation dagger by J.A.Henckels. Almost meant condition. No grip wire - as it should be in this piece. Right length and small crosguerd.

However couple of questions.

1. Can't find Henckels in Lt. Johnson's book. Did you came across this producer of DLV dagger?
2. The pommel is showing the top tip of the blade thread. Do you have this in any of yours?

I will appreciate some examples if anyone is in posesion of this rare dagger.

Pictures will follow:

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general overview

IMG_0344.jpg (75.38 KB, 501 downloads)
IMG_0345.jpg (94.99 KB, 502 downloads)
IMG_0346.jpg (90.39 KB, 505 downloads)
IMG_0347.jpg (84.98 KB, 500 downloads)
IMG_0348.jpg (71.08 KB, 499 downloads)
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Scabbard

IMG_0349.jpg (63.46 KB, 497 downloads)
IMG_0353.jpg (76.39 KB, 497 downloads)
IMG_0354.jpg (76.12 KB, 496 downloads)
IMG_0355.jpg (58.25 KB, 495 downloads)
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Maker's Mark

IMG_0357.jpg (46.37 KB, 492 downloads)
IMG_0358.jpg (64.62 KB, 490 downloads)
IMG_0359.jpg (60.91 KB, 493 downloads)
IMG_0360.jpg (47.18 KB, 491 downloads)
IMG_0361.jpg (56.87 KB, 491 downloads)
IMG_0362.jpg (59.58 KB, 492 downloads)
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Michael

I have owned two long DLVs' by Henckels. My computer skills are not up to posting images here, but I will ask a friend to help me out. See Wittmann's Luftwaffe book for a reference to Henckels as a producer of these daggers.

Barry

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Really beautiful dagger. I've seen 1 or 2 DLVs by Henckels over the years so the maker isn't a problem. As Barry says, I believe Wittmann's Luft book has a Henckels in it.


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I have seen a couple as well (all in pictures, sad to say).

But, I love that twin man TM.

It looks like a nice rare item with an uncommon TM.

John


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Blade tang should be visible at the top of the pommel on this model as the tang was peened over into the pommel and neither were threaded. The hilt can not be disassembled without damaging the pommel unless you drill out the tang!


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that is a beautiful rare dagger-wonderful condition. bring back fond memories. this happened 20 years ago. i was at a gun show and a fellow offered one to a dealer.dealer told him it was a rough 1st. luft and offered him $75.00. i was in the next aisle and saw the rattlesnake bottom and almost jumped over the tables to get to him.i asked him what the dealer offered. he said 75 but i will not take a penny less than 100. my first rare dagger-adolf braun. yours is much finer condition than mine. thanks for showing it.

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I'm posting these for Barry.

Gary

0561 (Custom).JPG (19.53 KB, 431 downloads)
0561A (Custom).JPG (39.52 KB, 431 downloads)
0561b (Custom).JPG (25.69 KB, 431 downloads)
0561c (Custom).JPG (55.71 KB, 430 downloads)
0561d (Custom).JPG (50.2 KB, 430 downloads)
long dlv (Custom).jpg (44.2 KB, 431 downloads)
Rotation of long dlv (Custom).jpg (44.6 KB, 429 downloads)
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What a nice example of a very scarce dagger. I have one of the shorter examples marked Adolf Braun Berlin but I've never been fortunate enough to own this longer example.
Jim

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Thanks a lot Gents!! Glad to hear.

Especially for your pictures Barry. I will follow up with taking a look back at Wittman's book:)

And a dealer offering $75 for this piece must have really been trying to make deal of a lifetime.

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Fantastic daggers guys


Regards Sean
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Beauty daggers.

I once owned two of these, an Eickhorn (which I still have) and a Weyersberg. When I got my second one, the Eick, I got really worried since it was so very different, even in length, from the Weyersberg.

If one had a lot of patience and money, a study of these by maker mark would be very interesting.

John


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Yes John patience and money grin

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Well the dagger shown on Flanders militaria is reported stolen and this is the same dagger shown by Overlord ?

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I bought it in Warsaw/ Poland from a militaria trader.

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Michal,

I don't think anyone here is implying you stole the dagger but perhaps the militaria trader you purchased it from has something to do with the theft, if not, perhaps he merely has knowledge of where the dagger came from. I say this because the dagger you posted really does look like the dagger stolen from Flanders Militaria.


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I understand. Actually ZOZA was also there holding this dagger for sale but we both passeed on it on that day. Anyway - What do sugest I do in this case. Report this fact to thie police?
I need to inspect the dagger closely. What tels you this is the same dagger?

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No doubt the same dagger just compare the black marks on the pommel they are like finger prints a most unfortunate situation I suggest you contact Andre the owner of the dagger.

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Unusual in that many of these early pieces were manufactured by small houses also. Mine is a Heidelburg twin beer bottles maker and have had a Braun (a distributor I believe) and a Weyersberg. Some one needs to do a study on these as they were in the early years of production and, it appears, no standardization.


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Originally Posted By: OverLord
I understand. Actually ZOZA was also there holding this dagger for sale but we both passeed on it on that day. Anyway - What do sugest I do in this case. Report this fact to thie police?
I need to inspect the dagger closely. What tels you this is the same dagger?


Can you tell us what you found out so far?
Are you having to take a 'complete loss' on the dagger?

-serge-

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Wim Offline
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Silence... ?


Regards, Wim

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Dear Fellow Dagger Collectors,

Indeed, this DLV-55cm-Dagger was stolen on my booth at the Ciney Show on October 31/2010, early in the morning,06.30 a.m, by the set-up.
I wrote Michal (Overlord) from www.daggers.pl a private mail on last Sunday december 12/2010, but till today,no reaction.
There is no doubt, this dagger have the same finger prints as the stolen one (see post #233699 from WW2-Collector).
I do not like to say that Michal was the thief but he did'nt answer my mail to and now he knows (since 11/27)that this dagger was stolen.Now, he is the receiver and the receiver is as bad as the thief.

many Thanks

André from www.flandersmilitaria.be

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Interesting take on this.

Michal walked in a militaria store and purchased a dagger. He is far from a thief. If this dagger is stolen, he is a potential victim.

Andre, did you offer to reimburse Michal for his cost of the dagger so you could pursue the real thief through the police and legal system?

Why should Michal suffer a financial loss because of your lack of security? Are you saying you do not have insurance?

Michal is certainly not a thief by the facts of the discusion here. Just a honest collector in a bad situation.

At least, that is my take on it.

Last edited by Jim W; 12/16/2010 04:03 PM.
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Jim:

My take on this is the same as yours.

The dealer who sold the dagger to Overlord is the one who we should be looking at...he knows how he got this dagger.

John


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Hi Guys,

Sorry for the gap in responses but I am in Maroko on Hols and belive me - this is not a very well "digitalized" place.

Not an easy one for me. Put yourelf in my position guys - and anyone can be in it. Say you buy something valubable at the max show - and than couple of months later you are made aware that this dagger has been stolen from the previous owner. Did anyone of you ever encountered such an event?

I have a telephone number for the person I bought it from and can pass it on to police/ interpol/ whoever. Andre - I really want to sort it out and I am in collecting for a while now. However takin a 100% loss does not seam like a reasonable solution for me.

Worst case scenario I can claim the money back from the dealer and return him the dagger and you can claim of him but guess this will not solve the case. Really puzzled here. And once he finds out the dagger is stolen he will just remove it from overseas sales.

Andre, btw - what did you mean it was stolen by the setup? Any suspicions who it was stolen by?

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This should be interesting. Reading Jim W's post, it makes sense.

Dave

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Interesting case. I agree with Jim W and assure You that this could happen to all of us. It has to be solved for sure but without any loss for Michal because he is a victim ...

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Guys I know in America if you receive stolen property knowingly or not you do not get to keep the merchandise it is returned to the owner just the way it is. Andre IMO should pursue legal actions.

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If I was Michal, this dagger would already be back to the dealer that sold it and I woulod have my money back. I would also give Andrea all the information he needs to work with the legal authorities to recover the dagger and find the thief.

In short, I would extricate myself. It is unfortunate that this theft happened, so I would try and limit the damage to those directly involved.

Those directly involved are the owner, thief, and dealer who bought directly from the thief. This is the best way to find the identity of the thief.

Just my opinion

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"simply" explained it just a question of going backwards. If Michal knocks on the door of the dealer and demands clearity, the dealer can give information of the seller (thief). Things like this must be taken very serious. We all can come in the horrible situation of Michel and buy a stolen item, just like we all can come in the horrible situation of Andrea and some piece of dirt stealing our daggers. The internet gives the oppertunity to detect some of these crimes and that's a good thing. The internet also allow us to share all kind of information. Let's share that info and maybe we end up by the crook.

Regards, Wim

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Will get back to the seller and get his details next week. Obviously he could be involved in the theft himself so I will pass all the details to Andre on private emails where we already try to solve this. I thing the guy mentioned he bought it in Belgium with a collection of other blades so Andre may actually recognize him and possibly chase how did he get in posesion of this dagger. Also we may report this guy to the police who is prosecuting the theft of this dagger.

I will keep you updated on new developments.

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You are a real gentleman, Michal.

Regards, Wim

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Michal,

Well done. I wish all involved good luck in finding the POS that stole the dagger in the first place.


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