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Denny Gaither #235128 12/12/2010 12:18 AM
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Forum,

I hoped you enjoyed the post of the Guard's Helmet from the Steyer Works along with the SS 84/98 Double Stamp Bayonet/ Single Rune.

My opinion is that the Single Rune 84/98 Bayonet was assembled at the Styer Works for the SS to go along with SS rifles being supplied as per order of Himmler.

The SS Double Stamp / Single Rune is on a WKC Blanko Blade. It is my opinion as well as other SS Weapons collectors that WKC also furnished just blades which were then assembled into bayonets at work camps & factories such as Styer.

A factor that has continuously come up during our discussions is that a WKC should have plastic grips. Wooden grips could more easily be fabricated in a Work Camp than plastic grips that require a sosphicated molding machine along with die maintenance. The wooden grips are almost always dated and property stamped.

The particular double stamped bayonet with single rune has markings in the grips reflecting 1943. This is too much of any possible coincidence.

I have also had posted a picture of a BNZ 43 Single Rune Rifle along with the bayonet that it came with. This rifle was traded to Robert Jensen for a Death Head Luger many years back. The Death Head Luger is one of the two that I had posted along with a Lazy S over TK Death Head. Robert Jensen was a gun writer and collector and he firmily believed that the Death Head Luger was an SS Weapon from the WW11 period.

Richard Kuchta

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FORUM,

In regards to what is believed about Lugers, there is a lot of bad information out there. You have all heard about the Black Widow Luger. It is written up and referred to in most luger books.

Well there was no such Luger as a Black Widow Luger! The name Black Widow was given to that particular style of Luger with black plastic grips and dated 41 and 42 by a collector dealer in Arizona to stimulate sales. Also, they were not made for and used by the Gestapo,SD, & or SS exclusively.

There is still alot of erronious data being published on German weapons and especially SS.

Collectors, remember the old saying about the German item that you are buying. You are buying the item and not the story. Whatever you buy must support itself. As a forum member related, he has bayonets just like in some of the pictures of his reference books; however without a direct link to an organization such as the SS or Army it is extremely hard to substantiate. Direct linkage is shown through such things as WA, SS Property Stamps, etc.

Richard K

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
Forum,

I hoped you enjoyed the post of the Guard's Helmet from the Steyer Works along with the SS 84/98 Double Stamp Bayonet/ Single Rune.

My opinion is that the Single Rune 84/98 Bayonet was assembled at the Styer Works for the SS to go along with SS rifles being supplied as per order of Himmler.

The SS Double Stamp / Single Rune is on a WKC Blanko Blade. It is my opinion as well as other SS Weapons collectors that WKC also furnished just blades which were then assembled into bayonets at work camps & factories such as Styer.

A factor that has continuously come up during our discussions is that a WKC should have plastic grips. Wooden grips could more easily be fabricated in a Work Camp than plastic grips that require a sosphicated molding machine along with die maintenance. The wooden grips are almost always dated and property stamped.

The particular double stamped bayonet with single rune has markings in the grips reflecting 1943. This is too much of any possible coincidence.

I have also had posted a picture of a BNZ 43 Single Rune Rifle along with the bayonet that it came with. This rifle was traded to Robert Jensen for a Death Head Luger many years back. The Death Head Luger is one of the two that I had posted along with a Lazy S over TK Death Head. Robert Jensen was a gun writer and collector and he firmily believed that the Death Head Luger was an SS Weapon from the WW11 period.

Richard Kuchta

Richard,

Berg, Coppel, Eickhorn, R. Herder, HŲrster, WKC and I'm sure some others that donít immediately come to mind, all used wood or plastic for later production at some point after the black grips were first introduced. What was reported is what is normally seen with some OEM factory production, and it is generally a time sensitive matter. None of the Solingen makers made their own plastic grips, they were all subcontracted. The significance of the Type 41 plastic is that it was formulated to conserve the use of the chemicals used in production.

And if I may ask. I donít think that we ever saw the 98K wood 1945 dated grips (or obverse side markings if present). Are the markings otherwise identical to those youíve posted or are they different? And if so, how are they different?

PS: What you saw earlier about the camp was the result of my searching the Internet. And I have to go back and see what information came from what site. Because I abstracted portions of the data as I went along from one to the next. When I have it all put back together with the appropriate links I will repost.

Best Regards, FP

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FP,

I have the pictures of the grips for the SS Phospate 45 dated bayonets. I promised John Jacobi that he would be the first to see the bayonets. I will try to send them out yet this evening.

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FP & Forum,

In my understanding of the SS KL System, Work & detenion camps were located more in the center of Germany. The extermination camps were located further out and in the adjacent captured countries. The KL located in Germany were used to supply slave labor to the war industries as well as fill the treasury of the SS.

Richard K

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FP,

Sorry for asking the same question over so many time regarding the RZM SS Frog. Was there a legitimate SS RZM frog?

Richard K

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FORUM,

In regards to the quality of the SS Proprty Stamps, mention was made of the overstamp on the SS 84/98 Horster. Please see the picture of the two lugers that were posted. One luger has an overstamp on the chamber. Overstamps are seen on SS Weapons. It does not look that great but it still provides the direct linkage to SS Property.

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FORUM,

Are there any more questions regarding Death Head Lugers and or myths about Black Widow Lugers.

Collectors who bought the lugers because of the Story regarding the "Black Widow" name ended up paying 50% more than what the luger should have sold for.

Another piece of information regarding Lugers associated with the SS & KLs is that of the KL Lugrers. The Lugers are really marked KI but the I looks like an L. KI lugers are for the Kadette Institute but again it was hyped to mean Concentration Larger Luger. The guns were misrepresented and oversold.

Remember, you are not buying the story, you are buying the item that must stand on its own.

Richard Kuchta

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Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
Forum,

I hoped you enjoyed the post of the Guard's Helmet from the Steyer Works along with the SS 84/98 Double Stamp Bayonet/ Single Rune.

My opinion is that the Single Rune 84/98 Bayonet was assembled at the Styer Works for the SS to go along with SS rifles being supplied as per order of Himmler.

The SS Double Stamp / Single Rune is on a WKC Blanko Blade. It is my opinion as well as other SS Weapons collectors that WKC also furnished just blades which were then assembled into bayonets at work camps & factories such as Styer.

A factor that has continuously come up during our discussions is that a WKC should have plastic grips. Wooden grips could more easily be fabricated in a Work Camp than plastic grips that require a sosphicated molding machine along with die maintenance. The wooden grips are almost always dated and property stamped.

The particular double stamped bayonet with single rune has markings in the grips reflecting 1943. This is too much of any possible coincidence.

I have also had posted a picture of a BNZ 43 Single Rune Rifle along with the bayonet that it came with. This rifle was traded to Robert Jensen for a Death Head Luger many years back. The Death Head Luger is one of the two that I had posted along with a Lazy S over TK Death Head. Robert Jensen was a gun writer and collector and he firmily believed that the Death Head Luger was an SS Weapon from the WW11 period.

Richard Kuchta

Richard,

Berg, Coppel, Eickhorn, R. Herder, HŲrster, WKC and I'm sure some others that donít immediately come to mind, all used wood or plastic for later production at some point after the black grips were first introduced. What was reported is what is normally seen with some OEM factory production, and it is generally a time sensitive matter. None of the Solingen makers made their own plastic grips, they were all subcontracted. The significance of the Type 41 plastic is that it was formulated to conserve the use of the chemicals used in production.

And if I may ask. I donít think that we ever saw the 98K wood 1945 dated grips (or obverse side markings if present). Are the markings otherwise identical to those youíve posted or are they different? And if so, how are they different?

PS: What you saw earlier about the camp was the result of my searching the Internet. And I have to go back and see what information came from what site. Because I abstracted portions of the data as I went along from one to the next. When I have it all put back together with the appropriate links I will repost.

Best Regards, FP

FP,

Thanks for trying to get some additional information on the Wobbelin Concentration Camp. I wish that Walther was still alive to provide some additional information on the SS Weapon's Depot and where exactly it was located.

Richard K

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
Forum,

I hoped you enjoyed the post of the Guard's Helmet from the Steyer Works along with the SS 84/98 Double Stamp Bayonet/ Single Rune.

My opinion is that the Single Rune 84/98 Bayonet was assembled at the Styer Works for the SS to go along with SS rifles being supplied as per order of Himmler.

The SS Double Stamp / Single Rune is on a WKC Blanko Blade. It is my opinion as well as other SS Weapons collectors that WKC also furnished just blades which were then assembled into bayonets at work camps & factories such as Styer.

A factor that has continuously come up during our discussions is that a WKC should have plastic grips. Wooden grips could more easily be fabricated in a Work Camp than plastic grips that require a sosphicated molding machine along with die maintenance. The wooden grips are almost always dated and property stamped.

The particular double stamped bayonet with single rune has markings in the grips reflecting 1943. This is too much of any possible coincidence.

I have also had posted a picture of a BNZ 43 Single Rune Rifle along with the bayonet that it came with. This rifle was traded to Robert Jensen for a Death Head Luger many years back. The Death Head Luger is one of the two that I had posted along with a Lazy S over TK Death Head. Robert Jensen was a gun writer and collector and he firmily believed that the Death Head Luger was an SS Weapon from the WW11 period.

Richard Kuchta

Richard,

Berg, Coppel, Eickhorn, R. Herder, HŲrster, WKC and I'm sure some others that donít immediately come to mind, all used wood or plastic for later production at some point after the black grips were first introduced. What was reported is what is normally seen with some OEM factory production, and it is generally a time sensitive matter. None of the Solingen makers made their own plastic grips, they were all subcontracted. The significance of the Type 41 plastic is that it was formulated to conserve the use of the chemicals used in production.

And if I may ask. I donít think that we ever saw the 98K wood 1945 dated grips (or obverse side markings if present). Are the markings otherwise identical to those youíve posted or are they different? And if so, how are they different?

FP,

May I ask what you have observed to date on the 2 SS Phospate Finished, Consecutive numbered bayonets??

Richard K

PS: What you saw earlier about the camp was the result of my searching the Internet. And I have to go back and see what information came from what site. Because I abstracted portions of the data as I went along from one to the next. When I have it all put back together with the appropriate links I will repost.

Best Regards, FP

FP,

Thanks for trying to get some additional information on the Wobbelin Concentration Camp. I wish that Walther was still alive to provide some additional information on the SS Weapon's Depot and where exactly it was located.

Richard K

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com

FP,

May I ask what you have observed to date on the 2 SS Phospate Finished, Consecutive numbered bayonets??

Richard K


Richard,

While the flash and/or lighting has made it hard to identify the type of finish, I see two dark finished bayonets with wood grips and what looks like matching/consecutive numbers. With a "Death's Head" on the underneath of each pommel. But if there are 1945 dates on them somewhere, maybe your eye can see them. But they don't show up on my monitor.

Best Regards, FP

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Hello, to Your consecutive numbers and 45 date, we dont see the date stamp, but i believe both could be only when the scabbards are matching made by 2 fabrics Eickhorn or Hoerster, no other fabric used the doubble letter producing, when i assume its a wood grips it could be a Eickhorn 43 production from letter aa. Or Hoerster 1944 production, but the grips should be plastic and riveted, the serial numbers could be done by the contractor, certainly too nice for a 45 dated camp grips, the overall finish looks like 1943 and i believe it should be 1943 production.
To Lugers i am not expert on this here but all pictured all reworks of WW1 so when there was a N proof added i probably hard to determine, the other production speaks about switch to Eagle/N in early 1939, it would be nice to know more about the lazy S DH on the bayonet its a WKC blanko piece?
The single rune piece is probably a blanko with added stamp, it doesnt look like a rework.best regards,Andy

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
FP,

Sorry for asking the same question over so many time regarding the RZM SS Frog. Was there a legitimate SS RZM frog?

Richard K

Richard,

Sorry I missed this. But with the number of entries something was bound to get lost. For the combat frogs Iíve seen a bunch of fakes, or at best questionable items. But not one that I felt comfortable purchasing. Dress frogs are not where my main interests are so I will leave that to those who are in that area (although Iíve seen many items that were clearly fakes there as well).

And I also saw where the 1945 date markings will be posted in the near future.

Best Regards, FP

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Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com

FP,

May I ask what you have observed to date on the 2 SS Phospate Finished, Consecutive numbered bayonets??

Richard K


Richard,

FP,

The 2 SS Phospate Finished Bayonets are dated 45 inside of the grips along with an SS Property Stamp. The server must be down at work because I can not remote access it from home.

FP, please look very carefully at the bayonets and you can see where they have been scrubbed. Also note where the SS Property Stamp is in relationship to the phospate. Tell me what you see?

Richard K
While the flash and/or lighting has made it hard to identify the type of finish, I see two dark finished bayonets with wood grips and what looks like matching/consecutive numbers. With a "Death's Head" on the underneath of each pommel. But if there are 1945 dates on them somewhere, maybe your eye can see them. But they don't show up on my monitor.

Best Regards, FP

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Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
FP,

Sorry for asking the same question over so many time regarding the RZM SS Frog. Was there a legitimate SS RZM frog?

Richard K

Richard,

Sorry I missed this. But with the number of entries something was bound to get lost. For the combat frogs Iíve seen a bunch of fakes, or at best questionable items. But not one that I felt comfortable purchasing. Dress frogs are not where my main interests are so I will leave that to those who are in that area (although Iíve seen many items that were clearly fakes there as well).

And I also saw where the 1945 date markings will be posted in the near future.

Best Regards, FP

FP,
Do you have a real RZM style VA type of frog that you could post for the Forum to look at?
\
Richard K



AndyB #235202 12/12/2010 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: AndyB
Hello, to Your consecutive numbers and 45 date, we dont see the date stamp, but i believe both could be only when the scabbards are matching made by 2 fabrics Eickhorn or Hoerster, no other fabric used the doubble letter producing, when i assume its a wood grips it could be a Eickhorn 43 production from letter aa. Or Hoerster 1944 production, but the grips should be plastic and riveted, the serial numbers could be done by the contractor, certainly too nice for a 45 dated camp grips, the overall finish looks like 1943 and i believe it should be 1943 production.
To Lugers i am not expert on this here but all pictured all reworks of WW1 so when there was a N proof added i probably hard to determine, the other production speaks about switch to Eagle/N in early 1939, it would be nice to know more about the lazy S DH on the bayonet its a WKC blanko piece?
The single rune piece is probably a blanko with added stamp, it doesnt look like a rework.best regards,Andy


Andy,

Good to have you back again.

Richard K

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FORUM,

Thanks again to Joe Wotka for opening up a topic related to proofing.

The Death Head Lugers both have Crown N proofs, Charles Kenyon and Jan Still list the Crown N as a commercial Proof used after 1920. The SS used th Commercial Proof because they did not have access to the military proof testing.

All of my SS rifles & lugers have these proofs that fakers have failed to recognise as being necessary.

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Forum,

About 20 to 25 years ago there was a dealer from Pittsburgh, PA who was very creative. He made up P-38s with Palm Tree over Runes. Presentation SS Lugers and exotic 98K rifles. Easy to tell his work because he never had any proofs on his weapons.

Richard K

AndyB #235208 12/12/2010 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: AndyB
Hello, to Your consecutive numbers and 45 date, we dont see the date stamp, but i believe both could be only when the scabbards are matching made by 2 fabrics Eickhorn or Hoerster, no other fabric used the doubble letter producing, when i assume its a wood grips it could be a Eickhorn 43 production from letter aa. Or Hoerster 1944 production, but the grips should be plastic and riveted, the serial numbers could be done by the contractor, certainly too nice for a 45 dated camp grips, the overall finish looks like 1943 and i believe it should be 1943 production.
To Lugers i am not expert on this here but all pictured all reworks of WW1 so when there was a N proof added i probably hard to determine, the other production speaks about switch to Eagle/N in early 1939, it would be nice to know more about the lazy S DH on the bayonet its a WKC blanko piece?

Andy,

The Lazy S over the TK is a WKC Blanko with accountability # 490. Grips unmarked.

Richard K
The single rune piece is probably a blanko with added stamp, it doesnt look like a rework.best regards,Andy

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"My opinion is that the Single Rune 84/98 Bayonet was assembled at the Styer Works for the SS to go along with SS rifles being supplied as per order of Himmler."
"The SS Double Stamp / Single Rune is on a WKC Blanko Blade. It is my opinion as well as other SS Weapons collectors that WKC also furnished just blades which were then assembled into bayonets at work camps & factories such as Styer.
A factor that has continuously come up during our discussions is that a WKC should have plastic grips. Wooden grips could more easily be fabricated in a Work Camp than plastic grips that require a sosphicated molding machine along with die maintenance. The wooden grips are almost always dated and property stamped
."
- there is no evidence of sending unfinished bayonets from WKC to any camps, the bayonets were finished by the maker who is stamped on blade, same as FP correctly mentioned that plastic grips has no link to producer, as it were chemical firms that produced plastic grips.
In reality about the single rune piece, is the camp was located in Austria, and is named exactly, i believe is described by the new book of Mike Steves and Bruce Karem, the work was only under control of Steyr fabric.
Thanks for adding of additional details of WKC piece with lazy S DH, looks interesting. The accountability number is where stamped on blade? the grips should be serialed to flashguard probably.

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
FP,

The 2 SS Phospate Finished Bayonets are dated 45 inside of the grips along with an SS Property Stamp. The server must be down at work because I can not remote access it from home.

FP, please look very carefully at the bayonets and you can see where they have been scrubbed. Also note where the SS Property Stamp is in relationship to the phospate. Tell me what you see?

Richard,

Here are I think the three best quality images that I have. I don't have any images where the dates and maker markings would normally be. I only have the serial number side. Is the other side where they were scrubbed? With possibly traces of the original markings like maker/dates? Because with these pictures where in the the images am I supposed to be looking? And what exactly is it that I should looking for?

Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
FP,

Do you have a real RZM style VA type of frog that you could post for the Forum to look at?
\
Richard K

Do you mean an RZM marking like that on the Navy frog? Because Iím really not clear by what you mean by a ďVA type of frogĒ - if itís different than the one I posted.

Best Regards, FP

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FP,

Do you have a frog marked similiary as the frog with the Navy Stamp? If so would you post it.

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FP,

The bayonets have a finish as if they have been buff ground. On the one scabbard rear you can just make out Cof. The pommels show this buff ground type of finish. Any WA would have been removed. Grips do not match the pommel & cross guard geometry very well. Phosphate finish is real heavy. SS Property Stamp is below the phosphate finish!

Richard K

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FP,

There are no dates on the bayonets and scabbards.

Richard K

AndyB #235237 12/13/2010 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: AndyB
"My opinion is that the Single Rune 84/98 Bayonet was assembled at the Styer Works for the SS to go along with SS rifles being supplied as per order of Himmler."
"The SS Double Stamp / Single Rune is on a WKC Blanko Blade. It is my opinion as well as other SS Weapons collectors that WKC also furnished just blades which were then assembled into bayonets at work camps & factories such as Styer.
A factor that has continuously come up during our discussions is that a WKC should have plastic grips. Wooden grips could more easily be fabricated in a Work Camp than plastic grips that require a sosphicated molding machine along with die maintenance. The wooden grips are almost always dated and property stamped
."
- there is no evidence of sending unfinished bayonets from WKC to any camps, the bayonets were finished by the maker who is stamped on blade, same as FP correctly mentioned that plastic grips has no link to producer, as it were chemical firms that produced plastic grips.
In reality about the single rune piece, is the camp was located in Austria, and is named exactly, i believe is described by the new book of Mike Steves and Bruce Karem, the work was only under control of Steyr fabric.
Thanks for adding of additional details of WKC piece with lazy S DH, looks interesting. The accountability number is where stamped on blade? the grips should be serialed to flashguard probably.


I have posted a Styer Factory Guard Helmet. Did the SS provide guards for the attached Slave Labor or did Styer provide their own guards for the Weapons facility? Is that information available?

Richard K

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
FP,

Do you have a frog marked similiary as the frog with the Navy Stamp? If so would you post it.

Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
.......... For the combat frogs Iíve seen a bunch of fakes, or at best questionable items. But not one that I felt comfortable purchasing. .........

Richard,

As I said earlier, I haven't found one that I was comfortable with as being an original. And if I can summarize the last few comments, they ground off almost all of the markings (how about underneath the flashguard?). And dumped them in a refinishing tank of some kind (I'm still not convinced it's actually a phosphate type finish). And then were left unprotected in the elements/environment.

Best Regards, FP

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About the guards i dont know but i assume the camp works were organised by SS probably, so they guarded the prisoners probably too. In Steyr self was probably the Werkschutz and FW schutz which could be the helmet off.
The cof pieces have a normal finish on blades, the other 1236 was probably mashined on blade,why i dont know, certainly this is a not typical phosphate finish like seen on late war german arms. I dont believe its the origin finish.Its too dull.Have You dismantled the grips? are there any WaA under flashguard?
- the WKC of Steyr piece, the grips are not correctly fitted so i believe You have there a normal WKC blanko, that was serialed and hat got a single rune stamp,why i dont know, the grips should be normal plastic as the finish looks like 1943 piece. best regards,Andy

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com

FP,
May I ask what you have observed to date on the 2 SS Phospate Finished, Consecutive numbered bayonets??
Richard K

FP,
The 2 SS Phospate Finished Bayonets are dated 45 inside of the grips along with an SS Property Stamp. The server must be down at work because I can not remote access it from home.

FP, please look very carefully at the bayonets and you can see where they have been scrubbed. Also note where the SS Property Stamp is in relationship to the phospate. Tell me what you see?
Richard K

Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Richard,
While the flash and/or lighting has made it hard to identify the type of finish, I see two dark finished bayonets with wood grips and what looks like matching/consecutive numbers. With a "Death's Head" on the underneath of each pommel. But if there are 1945 dates on them somewhere, maybe your eye can see them. But they don't show up on my monitor.
Best Regards, FP

Richard,

I think that I can see where some of this misunderstanding/miscommunication might be coming from. Not too long ago I looked at an RZM marking that to me in the image posted looked like a skull. You had it in hand, and could see it was an RZM marking, but I could not. So it may be the same thing here with a misinterpretation of something that you can see, but those on the other end of the conversation physically cannot.

On the Steyr topic, I remember seeing something about guarding inmates who were workers in the factories, and guards in factories in general. My best recollection is that there were both, and I will have to see if I can find the reference,

Best Regards, FP

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Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
FP,

Do you have a frog marked similiary as the frog with the Navy Stamp? If so would you post it.

Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
.......... For the combat frogs Iíve seen a bunch of fakes, or at best questionable items. But not one that I felt comfortable purchasing. .........


FP,

I could not determine your answer previously. Feeling comfortable and being a legitimate SS marking is like walking the fence. I guess I feel the same way but on the 3 markings VA, RZM, & WBD. As I stated before, I never got an SS Bayonet in a frog with those markings. I talked to several other collectors and they never got an SS Bayonet in a frog with those markings either. Being that no one has actually obtained a bayonet with a frog marked as above does not mean that they are not legitimate SS frogs. For me the frogs need more research.

Richard K
Richard,

As I said earlier, I haven't found one that I was comfortable with as being an original. And if I can summarize the last few comments, they ground off almost all of the markings (how about underneath the flashguard?). And dumped them in a refinishing tank of some kind (I'm still not convinced it's actually a phosphate type finish). And then were left unprotected in the elements/environment.

Best Regards, FP

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
FP,

Do you have a frog marked similiary as the frog with the Navy Stamp? If so would you post it.

Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
.......... For the combat frogs Iíve seen a bunch of fakes, or at best questionable items. But not one that I felt comfortable purchasing. .........


FP,

I could not determine your answer previously. Feeling comfortable and being a legitimate SS marking is like walking the fence. I guess I feel the same way but on the 3 markings VA, RZM, & WBD. As I stated before, I never got an SS Bayonet in a frog with those markings. I talked to several other collectors and they never got an SS Bayonet in a frog with those markings either. Being that no one has actually obtained a bayonet with a frog marked as above does not mean that they are not legitimate SS frogs. For me the frogs need more research.

Richard K
Richard,

As I said earlier, I haven't found one that I was comfortable with as being an original. And if I can summarize the last few comments, they ground off almost all of the markings (how about underneath the flashguard?). And dumped them in a refinishing tank of some kind (I'm still not convinced it's actually a phosphate type finish). And then were left unprotected in the elements/environment.

Best Regards, FP


FP,

I am at home today mostly cleaning and putting my collection back into the showcases. I just took one of the SS Phospate Bayonets down as per your request to determine what is under
the flashguard. I assume you mean what is on the tang? On the tang there is a number 9719 and a mark that looks likea ).

As per the finish on the blade and scabbard, it is definitely a coating of some sort. The best that I can relate to is a black/gray phospate.

Richard K

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KLINGE,

I went over all of my VZ-24 Bayonets today and all of the bayonets seem to be in the following range:

1. E LION 25

2. E Lion 26

3. E LION 27

4. E LION 29

I have no bayonets in the 30s.

Richard K

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Denny,

I have the pictures of the SS 45 dated Grips comming to you. Please post for us.

Thank you,

Richard Kuchta

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...

Kuchta 12-13_01.jpg (40.91 KB, 160 downloads)
Kuchta 12-13_02.jpg (44.67 KB, 160 downloads)

WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
Denny Gaither #235299 12/13/2010 08:57 PM
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FP,

Can you see the finish better on thes pictures. Nothing was dipped and put out into the elements.

Richard K

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Denny,

Thank you for posting the pictures.

Richard K

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Forum & FP,

Note the unique way in which the SS Accountability numbers were put into the grips.

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Forum,

Note the SS Property Stamp in the Grips.

Richard K

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Forum,

Can someone explain the signifiance of the 6 & H on the tang of the 36 bayont?

richard K

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Thanks for adding the details, the piece is dull blued which i believe is a postwar blueing done or the origin blueing as not so good on the rough mashinihg was coated in a unknown solution?, similar finish was never observed by german items, is too dark and dull. The grips are correct of the piece, unfortunally should be serialed with flahsguard or not serialed et all,i believe the DH and 45 markings are new, the overall mashining spures corespond with the blanko pieces pictured from Denny and Klinge in the Eickhorn thread. The pieces started as normal cof 43 production and was not serialed, i assume a normal commerzial contract. the serial numbers were added later, it should be compared of grips and blades that are made by one dies size. The H letter is so called forging letter and corespond with the date already destined by the mashining and the series letters of scabbards.
9719 or what on tang could be the assembly number of lock nut, that should be visible on protruding part by pressing button.

Last edited by AndyB; 12/13/2010 10:06 PM.
AndyB #235313 12/13/2010 10:13 PM
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You should have bayonets Vz.24 made later as 1930, but the date is not on blade.

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