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AndyB #233057 11/18/2010 11:16 PM
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Andy,

Thank you for the input for the time lines for the SS portapees and SS Men pictured. You have a very good knowledge of the SS uniforms and the time periods.

Richard K

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Hi Andy

Unfortunately, nothing written on the back of this photo !

Regards
Alain

AndyB #233064 11/19/2010 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: AndyB
All of the bayonets and rifles Vz.24 in the picture are unreworked in the picture,so probably pre 1942 date. The helmet maybe could help on this, when they have a M40 helmets? best regards,Andy

Andy,

A lot of what I have in photos is not immediately accessible (or catalogued). But I can confirm your projected date for the rifles and especially the Vz. 24 bayonets that are not reworked. Having a good photo of Waffen-SS combat soldiers, who are obviously in the field. That is roughly datable from at least mid 1941, to the end of the year (or later). I also remember seeing a fairly good picture of a bayonet knot, but can’t for the moment find it or some others of the Vz. 24.

In the interim if we’re just mostly looking at pictures. This is what you see most of the time in Waffen-SS pictures. The SG 84/98 (98K).

Regards to All, FP

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
Forum Members,

I would like to cover the following topics on SS Bayonets:

3. Bayonet Models used by the SS. German & Foreign captured.

Please give me your thoughts on the topics.

Richard Kuchta

Jumping ahead to number three. The image to the right is one of my favorites in showing that soldiers tend to use whatever is available. Being a couple of the images of the Selbstladegewehr 259 (r) (aka the Russian Model 1940 Tokarev rifle) in the service of the SS. I also have one (that is one of the ones that I'm having a problem locating) with the bayonet itself mounted on a belt.

"And believe it or not. There is or was one with German markings, that is probably still in a collection somewhere." I really should have elaborated on the preceding statement with the following information to avoid any misunderstanding: It was an original matching Model 1940 Tokarev rifle that was being offered for sale. As I recall at 3 or 4 times the price of a standard rifle in that condition. The extra premium in price was due to the rifle being sold as a:
Quote:
“German Ordnance marked gun that was used to help develop Germany's own self loading rifles”.

And it had Waffenamts stamped in strategic locations to 'prove' the story. I did not purchase it. Nor did anyone that I knew. And the rifle has since disappeared, and I have not seen or heard of it since I first saw it. So I’m assuming that somebody still has it in his collection. A few years after I saw it, I found out the source of the Waffenamts. They were original period stamps that had been borrowed from a collector, who had no idea that the friend he loaned them to "just study them", was going to do anything other than just closely look them. But the individual that he had thought was a friend - instead used the stamps to make some fakes (altered originals) that were specifically targeted for the 'TR collectors market'. Because Third Reich era gun collectors would pay a lot more money for the gun than a Russian arms collector would.

Regards to All, FP

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Last edited by Fred Prinz - FP; 11/19/2010 11:30 PM.
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Thanks FP for sharing of interesting photos, the left is probably a Feldgendarmerie so it could be a photo of captured material,in the second photo is interesting that i assume minimum 1941 period because the SVT40 rifle, there are two obsolete Gew.98 rifles.The pistols holster could be belgian FN? best regards,Andy

AndyB #233093 11/19/2010 05:15 PM
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Hello

Another SS photo with a K98 bayonet.
There is a famous photo of a Feldgendarm with a Tokarev 1940 and bayonet on a website. If I can find it, I will post it.
Regards from Paris
Alain


Klinge #233095 11/19/2010 06:09 PM
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Hello
I found this interesting photo on a website.
Alain


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Klinge #233097 11/19/2010 06:28 PM
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Klinge,

Great photos. Keep them comming.

Richard K

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Forum Members,

From the first topic on SS Bayonets we can conclude the following:

1. SS KS 84/98 Bayonets exist in the forms of etched and plated blades. Examples shown include: triple etch, double etch, single etch, and 2 SS RZM plated blades.

2. The SS Portapees with the salt & pepper balls are the early SS VT models.

3. The SS Portapee with the cord on the ball is considered the Waffen SS Ball.

4. The SS Portapees with the White Strap and black lines are considered "Peace Time" Portapees.

5. SS KS Bayonets exist but one must be extremely careful due to all of the known fakes and reproductions that exist.

Richard K

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Forum Members,

Let us now list the models and types of combat bayonets that were used by the SS. This includes foreign captured bayonets that were used as is or were reworked into different styles. I think Andy and FP may have a good start on this. I shall add bayonets from my collection as we go on.

Richard K

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per Richard - "Mike Welser has given permission to use these SS related pages. I am following up with a pictures of the SS Horster Bayonet documented in the article and a history about it".

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WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
Denny Gaither #233115 11/19/2010 10:35 PM
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Pictures pertaining to post #233111.

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Kuchta 11-19_7.jpg (19.59 KB, 304 downloads)

WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
Denny Gaither #233117 11/19/2010 10:38 PM
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Kuchta 11-19_10.jpg (37 KB, 298 downloads)
Kuchta 11-19_11.jpg (43.08 KB, 298 downloads)

WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
Denny Gaither #233120 11/19/2010 10:43 PM
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Forum,

I spoke to Mike the othe night and he allowed me to use the pages related to the SS Bayonets. If you do not have Mike's book on bayonets, you should get it. It contains alot of good data.

Mike was ahead of the wave about 25 years ago when he published his book containing SS Bayonets. I shall only discuss two of the SS Bayonets one of which is in my collection now (SS 84/98 Horster) and the SS Marked 98/05. The Horster is a very unique SS marked bayonet. Please look at the pictures closely and send me some questions and some observations.

Richard K

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Denny,

Thank you for posting the pictures for us.

Richard K

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Prior to 1941 are SS partly independent from obtaining material from Wehrmacht, so a 1938 proofed Hoerster shouldnt go to SS. The doubble WaA253 clearly speak for army acceptance. The ball finial should be too WaA253 proofed, its a armorer replacement piece, where should be no serials. As You could see the runes were stamped by single stamp which is very suspisious, i personally dont like this.The DH is stamped on leather and pommel. The SS2 stamp should by stamped above the DH as seen on reworked rifles.
The Intertwinned runes as there was a special discussion on other forum (FP and Joe)about Cultural markings should be nothing to do on SG84/98 because it was quality or design mark and SG84/98 is a older not SS design to compare with SS degen or other SS items. When stamped on bayonet so not in places as typical for acceptance. I believe all the cultural stamped bayonets are fakes. The WKC or Alcoso that delivered to SS or Police should be blank, without any markings.best regards,Andy

Last edited by AndyB; 11/20/2010 12:13 PM.
AndyB #233179 11/20/2010 07:12 PM
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Andy,

Your opinions of the Horster Bayonet are your opinions not fact only your opinions.

The history of this bayonet goes back to the 1970s when it was brought into the Great Western gun Show along with another bayonet by a young man. The Bayonet was shown to BCN member Fred Marut who looked it over very well. The bayonet was purchased by Fred Maruy's friend who kept it for awhile and then sold it to another BCN member from whom I purchased it.

You say that you don't like the SS markings, based on what? I have several other bayonets marked the same way and with the addition of serial numbers. One of which came from a BCN member in Ohio with a very old rifle collection. As for the TK being stamped. Hello!! The TKs were stamped as well as engraved. The 1938 dated Horster is indeed unique. This bayonet is what one would expect an officer purchased bayonet to be. As for the SS markings not being correct for a bayonet, I ask you again how many SS bayonets have you seen and handled? The TK is a double stamp which often happens.
If this particular bayonet was faked, what was the reason? To increase the value?? When this bayonet was initially purchased, by the friend of Fred Marut it was procurred at the going price of an ordinary bayonet.??!! How many other bayonets have you ever seen like this? Would the faker only make one????
As for dated and manufacturer's marked SS bayonets they exist. They are in collections and I am very glad to own several.

Andy I respect your opinions but they are just that. Opinions!

If the SS marked the majority of their rifles and equipment, why would they not mark their bayonets? The bayonets are marked with the same type of stamps and or engraving used on rifles.

Richard K

AndyB #233182 11/20/2010 07:21 PM
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Andy,

As I posted, I would only discuss the Horester Bayonet and the 98/05 bayonet in Mike's book at this time. Remember,this book was first published in 1985. We have learned quite a bit about SS bayonets in the last 25 years. I have never seen an original SS marked bayonet with the SS design stamp in any collection.

Richard K

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Gentleman: I’ve got a very busy day ahead, and I’m on my way out, so this will be brief. Richard (correctly) mentioned “copy cats” making duplicates of what they see in books. I’m not saying this here, but offering that comment as a general observation only, because with the level of detail in the pictures I’ve seen so far I can’t exactly say what is going on.

What I can say is that Mike stated that the piece he was describing had a blank (quote: “unmarked”) scabbard. Whereas this one has a maker’s name. And the Sigrunes do look like they might have been done separately (?).

As for the “Boxed SS” markings, what there seemed to be agreement on was that was it was not a personal “hallmark”. That it had been called in a period German Police publication a “Culture” mark with Joe Wotka posting some very interesting information. Also being described somewhat differently elsewhere. And that sometimes you see it, and sometimes you don’t on both SS an Police swords. Which is all I have time for at the moment and I have to leave.............. FP

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Certainly You shouldnt trust me without any facts, but i have a good experience about the SG84/98 bayonets, so i have a evidence of a similar Hoerster marked with Wffm, which is for Waffenmeister also for a repair, this is a 1938 piece marked correctly WaA253. These pieces are very hard to find as each larger army unit became a only small number of not serialed bayonets for repair.
I everytime goes from facts of SS timeline, this is very important, the prewar period is very problematic and the arms were obtained not through Army connection, so it should be not marked with WaA stamps. Thats the reason why are the Gew.98 reworks stamped with commerzially fireproofs not with army proof and WaA.Since the late 1939 early 1940 as the SS units grew to larger units from regiments to Divisions it was used primary the captured material, and commerzial basis by obtaining equipment woulnt enough so Army WaA proofed items were used. The SS was a elite unit and could be not accept similar 25 variations of DH stamp.When You believe this You could understand german manner. There exist SSZZA proofs that are real for the later period for buying commerzial items, but normally it was on same way obtained by Army. The WaA system was equiped with 25000 inspectors through the Germany and other countries.
I saw fysically about 3 real DH piece and have evidence of more but this is not important. The SS grew to end of war to near 1 Million army so when every rifle used by SS would be stamped so it must be every 7th rifle K98k in today market with this stamps.And this is not. Why? because they used army proofed rifles in majority.
The Mike Welser is great man, unfortunally many of the information there is obsolete. the best sample are the S code bayonet markings.
When You confirm its a rework of TKV in war then its real scenario, other way is for me a faked piece.

Last edited by AndyB; 11/20/2010 08:27 PM.
AndyB #233185 11/20/2010 08:32 PM
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Andy,

Again you state your opinion but it is not based on facts. I am sitting at my computer with two different bayonets. One is marked 43 fnj SS ZZ A4, the other is marked COF 43 SS ZZ A2. I suppose you think that they do not exist either.

In addition I just pulled a CLEMN&JUNG dated 1939 with matching scabbard. Both scabbard and bayonet are SS marked TK, RUNES with accountability #1534. This came from the Marino Collection in Gettsyburgh, PA.

Richard K

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We should see it but i am sceptical, because of the codes, the letter codes were assigned from Army, by Alcoso commerzial is other situation. When 43fnj and cof 43 are marked with WaA519 on pommels its going through the army WaA system, so it could go to SS, but it should be not stamped this way, only by rework. Without seing it is hard to tell anything.
You should look to Gunboard forum, there is Scott B. as really experts on DH marked rifles.
I believe here should be return to beginn, and ask why are the rework rifles stamped with DH, what means this stamp, its property, issue, unit linked or proof stamp? There exist many KZ rifles with one rune, and no DH why? In the new book of Mike Steves and Bruce Karem " Kriegsmodell K98k" there is other interesting information about certainly production of KZL.
The stamping of bayonets are not important or typical, and that why they are in focus of fakers. As mentioned earlier the real SS bayonets are blankos. Without any markings.There is confirmed to sample that WKC produced bayonets for SS, same as Alcoso,P.Weyersberg delivered to Police with proper acceptance. As there are typical production markings, we could say that the production run side by side with army orders, so WKC commerzial for SS and in same year for Army under cvl code.best regards,Andy

Last edited by AndyB; 11/20/2010 08:47 PM.
AndyB #233188 11/20/2010 08:44 PM
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Andy,

Your statement that the SS was an Elite Unit and could not accept 25 different Death Head styles. Based on what??

Take the 98/05 SS Bayonets that are mostly engraved. You will hardly find 2 alike. These were done in weapons work camps with slave labor. There are minor differences in the size and geometry of the TK, Runes, & Numbers. Elite SS Unit didn't have Elite Slave Labor! Maybe you can show us something from an SS Quality Control Document that can verify your statement.

Metal stamps wore out & or broke. You get a size variation when a stamp is worn & dull.

Richard K

AndyB #233191 11/20/2010 08:55 PM
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Andy,

You are so wrong in your statement that SS Bayonets are not important and that is why they are faked. There are more fake SS rifles out there because they have always brought a premium price. If you ever collected SS rifles, you would know about the fakes and you would also know the work of particular fakers.I collected SS rifles early on and switched to SS bayonets because I realised that they were much more scarce. You were lucky to get one SS bayonet for every 10 rifles you collected. The last I knew Scott B had one SS Bayonet.

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
Andy,

Again you state your opinion but it is not based on facts. I am sitting at my computer with two different bayonets. One is marked 43 fnj SS ZZ A4, the other is marked COF 43 SS ZZ A2. I suppose you think that they do not exist either.

In addition I just pulled a CLEMN&JUNG dated 1939 with matching scabbard. Both scabbard and bayonet are SS marked TK, RUNES with accountability #1534. This came from the Marino Collection in Gettsyburgh, PA.

Richard K

When I left to take care of some business there was one bayonet under discussion. I came back, and now it’s four. With one of them a 1939 Clemen u. Jung. Which is sort of interesting because the commercial bayonets are fairly scarce. Although from the description, I’m not sure if that is what has been brought forward as an example for the discussion. FP

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FP,
The 1939 CLEMEN & JUNG SS Bayonet was brought up due to the fact that Bayonets as such with SS Markings were fake as per Andy. Andy's Opinion.

I do not know if you know Fred Marut or not. He is a very knowledgable bayonet collector, BCN Member and gentleman. The point that I was making with Andy that when the SS Horster Bayonet was purchased in the 1970s at the Great Western Show by Fred's friend from a young man, there was no premium paid price for the bayonet. Why fake something and sell it for the same price as a standard combat bayonet. Makes absolutely no sense. Have you ever seen this type of SS marked bayonet out there? Usually a person faking an item will make more than one.I do have several other similiar marked bayonets one of which came from a BCN Member in Ohio.

The Forums on GDC are set up to provide a learning process. However, when something is not understood and is looked at subjectively the learning process stops. Opinions should be listed as opinions not stated as facts.

I also mentioned the 43 dated SS ZZ A2 and SS ZZ A4 Bayonets. I think that they are the only survivors. I have never seen another in any of the SS Rifle and weapon's collections. Truly Waffen SS Bayonets that need to be researched.

I have chosen to share information and pictures from my SS Bayonet collection with you. Some of the items in my collection are extremely rare and have been buried in advanced collections longer than most of us have been collecting.What do I get out of sharing information and pictures with our members? I get the Satisfaction of knowing that I am promoting and contributing to the knowledge of our segment of the WW11 German Dagger Collecting field, "Bayonets". Isn't this what GDC is all about. I am not a dealer. I am a historian and researcher. I have never sold one SS Bayonet. Collector's from all over the world have offered and sold SS Bayonets to me. John Jacobi has found numerous SS Bayonets for me. My major objective is to do a factual book on the Bayonets of the SS. This project is long overdue. For those of you who do not believe that legitimate SS bayonets exist, you do not have to bother yourself participating in this thread. Expressing an opinion is acceptable. Expressing an opinion as a fact without documentation tends to hinder the learning process.

Richard Kuchta

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Richard,

Fred is in fact a very knowledgeable collector, and I actually know who the original purchaser was. What I’m not sure of is if this is actually the very same exact bayonet that he acquired at Great Western. Because Mike Welser is also knowledgeable, and he knows what an unmarked scabbard looks like.

As for Clemen U. Jung, I know what both the early commercial and military models look like. And the 1943 vintage bayonets by Coppel and Eickhorn, and their “mid war” commercial cousins. (Besides some of the DH markings, and some of the SS ZZA types as well.)

So at this moment in time I’m not 100 % convinced that this is the same exact Hörster bayonet. And with the other three I’m left trying to make some guesses. That said, I do like looking at new items and exchanging information. And do try to present my point of view based on the best in information that I have at hand. Or learn in the process, which is something that might also happen depending on the circumstances.

Best Regards, FP

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Here was mentioned some people who brought bayonets to Your collection, it would be nice to hear John J. or Fred M. they info about the bayonets, certainly Richard is Your good will to make a book about Your SS bayonet collection, as here a forum is and You asked for other collectors opinion, "or i am mistake on this"so certainly i have right to offer my opinion.
To Your mentioned SS piece: Hoerster 1938 was made for army as there is WaA253, thats a fact, so when the DH is real it must be realised by rework, so when You have a evidence of reworking of the piece, like other stamp on grips, on tang or on blade finish like new blueing, thats no problem to believe its a SS TKV piece. As the DH is stamped, because i dont believe that the rotary engraved DH are real. But i dont like the different stamp where the SS2 is by side and stamped independetly.
As You are member of BCN when i am correct, You could ask the old collectors for confirmation.
Scott B is one of the best experts on DH on rifles, he has when i am correct more as 50 DH stamped rifles and will prepare book about it.There was a large discussion on Gunboard. He dont talk about bayonets. But the DH i assume are same stamps or in same works stamped as the rifles??
I tell You a story about week ago from Prague show, i am a number freek so i make me a dbase about Vz.24 bayonets, previous show on spring 2010 i examined a nice export scabbard for south america with a standard Vz.24 export to Romania, i observed the piece and make me notes about the stamps and serial numbers. Now in autumn i went to the dealer and asked for the piece, the piece was on table but the pommel was marked with stamped LW ZA6 proof. The price was highed about only 10% but it was declared as a LW marked capture piece. so this is the real situation on this job, the fakers are still working.best regards,Andy

AndyB #233242 11/21/2010 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: AndyB
Here was mentioned some people who brought bayonets to Your collection, it would be nice to hear John J. or Fred M. they info about the bayonets, certainly Richard is Your good will to make a book about Your SS bayonet collection, as here a forum is and You asked for other collectors opinion, "or i am mistake on this"so certainly i have right to offer my opinion.
To Your mentioned SS piece: Hoerster 1938 was made for army as there is WaA253, thats a fact, so when the DH is real it must be realised by rework, so when You have a evidence of reworking of the piece, like other stamp on grips, on tang or on blade finish like new blueing, thats no problem to believe its a SS TKV piece. As the DH is stamped, because i dont believe that the rotary engraved DH are real. But i dont like the different stamp where the SS2 is by side and stamped independetly.
As You are member of BCN when i am correct, You could ask the old collectors for confirmation.
Scott B is one of the best experts on DH on rifles, he has when i am correct more as 50 DH stamped rifles and will prepare book about it.There was a large discussion on Gunboard. He dont talk about bayonets. But the DH i assume are same stamps or in same works stamped as the rifles??
I tell You a story about week ago from Prague show, i am a number freek so i make me a dbase about Vz.24 bayonets, previous show on spring 2010 i examined a nice export scabbard for south america with a standard Vz.24 export to Romania, i observed the piece and make me notes about the stamps and serial numbers. Now in autumn i went to the dealer and asked for the piece, the piece was on table but the pommel was marked with stamped LW ZA6 proof. The price was highed about only 10% but it was declared as a LW marked capture piece. so this is the real situation on this job, the fakers are still working.best regards,Andy



FP & Andy,

One thing that must be determined on the Horster and Clemen & Jung was when the SS Marks were applied to the bayonets. Were these bayonets salvaged from the field and reissued by the SS?

A similar marked bayonet from the John Milton Collection is on a 27 dated WuK. Tiny runes are to the right side of rhe TK with accountability #191.

As I was going through my bayonets yesterday, I came across the fifth SS Police bayonet. It ia a EAGLE B by P. WEYERSBERG, serial #8192 with SS Marking. Joe & FP do you want to see it?

I would still like to list all of the types and models of Bayonets used by the SS.

Richard Kuchta

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Richard:

I, for one, would like to see any examples that you or anyone else may have that are SS marked or SS related.

This is a great thread and I wish it would go on and on. We are all learning a lot.

John


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Gentlemen,

Came across yet another SS Police marked bayonet by S 244 36 dated. Police star is between the 2 WA on the end of the pommel.Serial number on the bayonet is # 9938. The 8 is partially removed by the blood groove.

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It would be interesting to see the variation on S/244 bayonet, this sunburst or asterisk marking was observed and is not linked with police. There exist more samples of Mundlos production.Not only year 1936.best regards,Andy

AndyB #233266 11/21/2010 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: AndyB
It would be interesting to see the variation on S/244 bayonet, this sunburst or asterisk marking was observed and is not linked with police. There exist more samples of Mundlos production.Not only year 1936.best regards,Andy


Andy,
What is the asterisk on the S/244 linked to if not the Police.

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Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Richard,

Fred is in fact a very knowledgeable collector, and I actually know who the original purchaser was. What I’m not sure of is if this is actually the very same exact bayonet that he acquired at Great Western. Because Mike Welser is also knowledgeable, and he knows what an unmarked scabbard looks like.

As for Clemen U. Jung, I know what both the early commercial and military models look like. And the 1943 vintage bayonets by Coppel and Eickhorn, and their “mid war” commercial cousins. (Besides some of the DH markings, and some of the SS ZZA types as well.)

FP,

On the SS ZZ Bayonets that you observed:
1. Where were the markings located?
2. Were the markings both the same size for the SS ZZ A2 & A4?
3. What type of finish did the baynets and scabbards have?

Richard K

So at this moment in time I’m not 100 % convinced that this is the same exact Hörster bayonet. And with the other three I’m left trying to make some guesses. That said, I do like looking at new items and exchanging information. And do try to present my point of view based on the best in information that I have at hand. Or learn in the process, which is something that might also happen depending on the circumstances.

Best Regards, FP

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I like to see the markings on pommel,mainly the WaA stamps with t this flower stamp or asterisk is stamped on various samples of Mundlos production, the origin police piece must be without WaA stamps and the star or sunburts marking are everytime with a letter of police inspector. What for serial letter is under the number? Picture would be very helpfull. best regards,Andy

AndyB #233271 11/21/2010 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: AndyB
I like to see the markings on pommel,mainly the WaA stamps with t this flower stamp or asterisk is stamped on various samples of Mundlos production, the origin police piece must be without WaA stamps and the star or sunburts marking are everytime with a letter of police inspector. What for serial letter is under the number? Picture would be very helpfull. best regards,Andy


Andy,

The SS S 244 36 has a WA 219.

Richard K

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The SS S/244.36 piece, is there any other SS stamps on the piece, certainly a picture would be helpfull, same as there are only WaA219 stamps or other WaA numbers too. the picture of pommel would be helpfull.Same as the letter under serial would be interesting or is there nothing? To samples of flower/sunburts marking, we have in dbase piece 3 of 1935 year, 2 pieces in 1936, 2 pieces in 1938, 1 piece in 1939, 1 pcs in 1941 and other reported in 1943, Majority of them have one WaA243 stamp. By majority of collectors is the flower stamp mentioned as rejection part stamp.best regards,Andy

AndyB #233273 11/22/2010 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: AndyB
The SS S/244.36 piece, is there any other SS stamps on the piece, certainly a picture would be helpfull, same as there are only WaA219 stamps or other WaA numbers too. the picture of pommel would be helpfull.Same as the letter under serial would be interesting or is there nothing? To samples of flower/sunburts marking, we have in dbase piece 3 of 1935 year, 2 pieces in 1936, 2 pieces in 1938, 1 piece in 1939, 1 pcs in 1941 and other reported in 1943, Majority of them have one WaA243 stamp. By majority of collectors is the flower stamp mentioned as rejection part stamp.best regards,Andy


Andy,

The scabbard is unnumbered but has th WA 219 on the ball. The letter under the serial number is mostly ground away where the edge is ground back to.

The grips are brown plastic. The asterik is 8 point.

The SS marking is the same as on the P.WEYERSBERG SS POLICE as well as being in the same place. SS Marking is the RUNES over the TK.

In my opinion, the S 244 36 SS Bayonet is police. It has an unmarked scabbard as well as all of the other markings in similiar places as other police bayonets. Why would the bayonet be labeled as a reject? Makes no sense.

Richard K

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Richard.

For the Clemen U. Jung without actually seeing it. What we are discussing is really, really, hard (if not impossible) to make a judgment. Original, reworked, salvaged? Who knows?

I also obviously can’t speak for Joe. But I would like to see the P. Weyersberg Police, and I would imagine that he would like to see it also.

And for the S/244 code likewise I'm not sure what you have there either. There is a Police sunburst marking. And a different type as well on some bayonets that is still a topic under discussion. With one theory being that it may be some kind of “Stern” marking. IE: A non “milspec” item, that was suitable for use, but did not conform to period standards. Which is it on your bayonet? Without looking at the bayonet, who knows?

Best Regards, FP

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Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Richard.

For the Clemen U. Jung without actually seeing it. What we are discussing is really, really, hard (if not impossible) to make a judgment. Original, reworked, salvaged? Who knows?

I also obviously can’t speak for Joe. But I would like to see the P. Weyersberg Police, and I would imagine that he would like to see it also.


And for the S/244 code likewise I'm not sure what you have there either. There is a Police sunburst marking. And a different type as well on some bayonets that is still a topic under discussion. With one theory being that it may be some kind of “Stern” marking. IE: A non “milspec” item, that was suitable for use, but did not conform to period standards. Which is it on your bayonet? Who knows?

Best Regards, FP


FP,

The S 244 36 whatever it is was marked and used by the SS. Did this 1936 bayonet start off with the brown plastic grips? I thought the plastic grips came later.

Richard K

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