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Not entirely uncommon with some high profile individuals, Sepp Dietrich I think had a reputation for doing what he wanted to do. With (if I remember the incident correctly) his being given on at least one occasion either a direct order to comply with established protocols as regards dress sidearms. Or his failure to comply which prompted his being censured.

But what the period photos of dress bayonets in use do not show are the blade markings. And given the lack of sharpness in detail of most, I don’t know how you could tell if it was a preexisting Imperial era dress bayonet, versus a Third Reich era manufactured blade? FP

Mikee #232869 11/16/2010 08:46 PM
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I stand corrected on when the daggers came out. Of course, the daggers came out a couple of years prior to 1935. I should have said that instead of what I did say. It's odd that the bayonets carried RZM markings a good while prior to their appearing on daggers. I have seen at least one photo of an SS man wearing a short dress bayonet with the "NCO" portepee with runes on the stem. Wittmann seems to think those portepees were for the SD. Perhaps the RZM bayonets have some connection there? The RZM bayonet I have came with such a portepee, also dated 1935.

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FP,

Thank you for the input. The only hard fact that the picture shows is that Sepp Dietrich was wearing a bayonet and portapee. From the picture, it can not be accurately determined what period of bayonet.

FP,

Any opinions on why there are not more RZM SS Bayonets in the hands of collectors?

richard K

Grumpy #232881 11/16/2010 10:04 PM
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Grumpy,

I obtained the rights from Mr. Noss on a particular SS photo showing 3 Deutchland SS Men wearing the particular "SS NCO Sword Knot on their 98/05 Bayonets." I do not remember the date on the photo but it predates any use on SS swords. This was provided to Whittman by me. Would you members like to see this picture?

Richard K

Denny Gaither #232888 11/16/2010 11:06 PM
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Denny,

The TK found on the pistol grip of SS marked rifles is extremely typical of the size and geometry of the TK found on the SS Marked Bayonet Frogs & Rifle Slings. Thanks for sharing your SS rifle with us.

Richard Kuchta

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I would greatly enjoy seeing the photo of the three SS men.

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"The TK found on the pistol grip of SS marked rifles is extremely typical of the size and geometry of the TK found on the SS Marked Bayonet Frogs & Rifle Slings."
yes but only for short period of reworking of older equipment which was the gew98 converted to K98k configuration. So the pieces are converted probably in early 1933-38 period.
For SS knots is probably the best book George Wheeler History of german bayonet 1918-45.

Grumpy #232896 11/17/2010 12:22 AM
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Grumpy,

I shall look for my photos from Mr Noss. I haven't seen them in years myself.

Richard K

AndyB #232897 11/17/2010 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: AndyB
"The TK found on the pistol grip of SS marked rifles is extremely typical of the size and geometry of the TK found on the SS Marked Bayonet Frogs & Rifle Slings."
yes but only for short period of reworking of older equipment which was the gew98 converted to K98k configuration. So the pieces are converted probably in early 1933-38 period.
For SS knots is probably the best book George Wheeler History of german bayonet 1918-45.


Andy,

I do not know how long they were reworking the Czech Rifles and or why?

George Wheeler has a great section in his book on the SS Portapees. There are a few more SS portapees out there that George doesn't show.

Richard K

AndyB #232901 11/17/2010 12:44 AM
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Here is a nice shot of the KS98 bayonets with the LAH. Looks like the knots might be leather strap rather than a cloth bayonet knot?

11-16-2010 12;15;52PMa.jpg (50.63 KB, 312 downloads)

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JoeW #232902 11/17/2010 01:02 AM
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Interesting the bayonets are the long (em) style. To my knowledge, the SS RZM ones only came in the shorter version.

JoeW #232920 11/17/2010 03:51 AM
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Joe,

What a great picture of the LAH Band wearing the Black Belt & Bayonet Frog. I have a picture of the LAH Band wearing the White Belt & White Bayonet Frog but carrying the 98/05 Model Bayonet. Your picture would be earlier than mine with the White Belt Rig. Joe thanks for sharing. Almost forgot, Joe can you make out the type of portapee being worn on the bayonets. Could it possibly be the "SS NCO SWORD PORTAPEE"?

Richard K

Grumpy #232921 11/17/2010 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: Grumpy
I would greatly enjoy seeing the photo of the three SS men.



Grumpy,

I found the picture of the 4 SS Men with no trousers but wearing their combat Belt with Black Frog, 98/05 Bayonet and "SS NCO Sword Portapee" attached to the frog. Hopefully Denny can put it up tomorrow for me.

Richard K

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The photo here we assume is a LAH Band photo, so probably not for obvious soldiers of LAH typical as music band has a special position, its not a combat unit. I believe the color schema of knot is typical for LAH. The dating is probably similar to early 30ies as they wore M16 helmets.There are cufftitles on sleeve so probably 1934-36 are the period. Maybe a see wrong but soldiers wore a long blade version and the chief in front a short blade, which was for NCOs and officers.
The czechoslovak rifles were reworked post 1941 probably so other period and other marking should be there.best regards,Andy

Last edited by AndyB; 11/17/2010 11:26 AM.
AndyB #232947 11/17/2010 04:07 PM
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Andy,

Perhaps the LAH Band was not a combat unit but its director was charged with war crimes for personally killing several Poles so as to gain recognition for being rough & tough.

Richard Kuchta

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Denny,

I have about 4 SS Pictures to be put up showing bayonets. I shall send them shortly. Thank you for your help.

Richard K

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com

Grumpy,

I found the picture of the 4 SS Men with no trousers but wearing their combat Belt with Black Frog, 98/05 Bayonet and "SS NCO Sword Portapee" attached to the frog. Hopefully Denny can put it up tomorrow for me.

Richard K

Richard,

If it’s the same picture that I remember, was this from back in ........ was it 2003? With the four SS men not LAH, but from the SS-Standarde Deutschland?

Regards, FP

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Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com

Grumpy,

I found the picture of the 4 SS Men with no trousers but wearing their combat Belt with Black Frog, 98/05 Bayonet and "SS NCO Sword Portapee" attached to the frog. Hopefully Denny can put it up tomorrow for me.

Richard K

Richard,

If it’s the same picture that I remember, was this from back in ........ was it 2003? With the four SS men not LAH, but from the SS-Standarde Deutschland?

Regards, FP



FP,

The picture you mention is one in the same. It has been since about 2003 since I have seen it. Your right, there are 4 SS Men from Deutschland with no pants. Just big 98/05 bayonets.

Richard Kuchta

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Here we go....

Kuchta001 (Medium).jpg (55.63 KB, 299 downloads)
Kuchta002 (Medium).jpg (62.96 KB, 300 downloads)
Kuchta003 (Medium).jpg (51.54 KB, 298 downloads)
Kuchta004 (Medium).jpg (63.63 KB, 297 downloads)

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Denny Gaither #232971 11/17/2010 10:55 PM
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last ones....

Kuchta006 (Medium).jpg (116.63 KB, 300 downloads)
Kuchta007 (Small).jpg (83.57 KB, 296 downloads)
Kuchta011 (WinCE).jpg (17.75 KB, 292 downloads)

WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
Denny Gaither #232972 11/17/2010 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: Denny Gaither
last ones....


Denny,

Thank you very much for putting the pictures up for us.

Richard K

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Forum,

Does it not seem strange that the SS Officers and men would be wearing daggers in these particular situations if they had them. The SS officers are wearing KS 98 Bayonets with Officer's Portapees.
Can anyone put a timeline reference on thes pictures to help us?

Richard K

Denny Gaither #232974 11/17/2010 11:17 PM
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Forum,

Included in the pictures just put up by Denny is a picture of an SS Weapon's Work Camp. Note the type of rifles being refurbished.

Richard K

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Hello

SS with Vz.
Klinge


Klinge #232977 11/18/2010 12:24 AM
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Very interesting photo, especially the MP35 held by the guy with the binocs. But these are TK are perhaps from one of the occupation TK Btls. occupying towns in Czechoslovakia. Perhaps this is a pre-war photo?


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JoeW #232978 11/18/2010 12:33 AM
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Super photos. Thanks, guys. Interesting to see the "officer" portepee with runes worn with bayonets.

JoeW #232979 11/18/2010 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: JWotka
Very interesting photo, especially the MP35 held by the guy with the binocs. But these are TK are perhaps from one of the occupation TK Btls. occupying towns in Czechoslovakia. Perhaps this is a pre-war photo?

I don't know the date of this photo, but there are wartime photos showing the bright hilted Vz. 24 bayonets in use in the field. And my thanks to Klinge for posting it as one I don't remember seeing before. smile FP

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Originally Posted By: richkuch43@aol.com
Forum,

Included in the pictures just put up by Denny is a picture of an SS Weapon's Work Camp. Note the type of rifles being refurbished.

Richard K

Richard, On the printed page version of the photo that I have (which seems to be a little larger) the rifles appear to be 98K's. Having a bright metal firing pin disassembly disc in the buttstock. FP

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All of the bayonets and rifles Vz.24 in the picture are unreworked in the picture,so probably pre 1942 date. The helmet maybe could help on this, when they have a M40 helmets? best regards,Andy

Klinge #233027 11/18/2010 03:54 PM
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Klinge,

Thank you for posting the picture of the TK with the VZ Rifles & Bayonets. It is one of the best that I have seen.

Richard K

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FP,

In regards to the bayonets in the picture posted by Klinge, I agree that bayonets in the white were used during the war period. I know that I have some SS VZ-24 bayonets that are so dated.

Richard K

Denny Gaither #233029 11/18/2010 04:09 PM
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In regards to the picture of the 4 SS Men with 98/05 Bayonets and SS portapees on their frogs, this is the earliest picture in my files showing the so called "SS NCO SWORD PORTAPEE". As you can see, the Portapee is being worn on a combat 98/05 bayonet. I do not think that the SS Men shown are NCOs. What is your opinion?

Richard K

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Forum Members,

Can someone give an opinion on the 2 different styles of SS portapees shown on the KS 98 Bayonets. John Z & Richard K. Which portapee is considered SS VT and which would be Waffen SS.

Richard K

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The bayonet is a SS Artillery single side etch.

Kuchta 11-18_1.jpg (24.3 KB, 297 downloads)
Single etch on Eickhorn blade
Kuchta 11-18_2.jpg (15.94 KB, 302 downloads)
Kuchta 11-18_3.jpg (28.37 KB, 304 downloads)
Kuchta 11-18_4.jpg (19.54 KB, 296 downloads)
Kuchta 11-18_5.jpg (49.05 KB, 291 downloads)
This is the SS LAH Band in White Rig playing for Hitler on his birthday.

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Denny Gaither #233042 11/18/2010 08:23 PM
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Denny:

Now that is one heck of an Eickhorn!

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
Denny Gaither #233046 11/18/2010 09:07 PM
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Denny,

Thanks for posting the pictures for me. Great!!

Richard K

JohnZ #233047 11/18/2010 09:09 PM
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John,

This SS Artillery Bayonet comes from a very old collection.

Richard K

Denny Gaither #233048 11/18/2010 09:12 PM
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Can anyone determine the model of bayonets being carried by the LAH Band. I have 2 complete SS White Rigs. One rig carries the Reworked, SS marked 98/05 Bayonet.


Richard K

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Klinge is possible determine the date of the soldiers with vz.24 rifles? Any backside stamp?

AndyB #233052 11/18/2010 10:07 PM
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To SS knots on pictures:
-first LAH band , hard to visible details of knots, period 1934-36
-4 SS soldier of 1.Kraftfahrer company, Rgt Deutschland, i assume period middle of 30ies maybe later, the knot looks like with circle runes on stem
-soldier of Der Fuehrer has post 1936 cap, different knot without circle on stem
-soldier of Oberbayern has probably same period or earlier, the knot is with circle runes stem
-soldier of Oberbayern with M16 helmet, combat SG84/98 bayonet and same knot
-3 SS NCOs of Rgt Deutschland, early period pre 1936, small caps, similar knot with different colours but with runes in circle on stem
For me is important to know which period is it, the uniform of various parts of SS changed about 3 or 4x in time, so is important the dating. Evidently is the using of knots of small dimension, not sword knot marked on stem with circle runes markings.
The piece on dress bayonet is of war period as white is replaced by grey color. best regards,Andy

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