UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum SS Eickhorn Transition.

Please help me. What is this fake or not?

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Looks like a fake to me, lots of mistakes on the motto and maker marks amongst others.

Red

It seems to me that a little squirrel it is executed very correctly, I don't see distinguish from the original. If you see differences, please tell me where.
Thanks a lot.

The CAH on the tang indicates the blade is real, however, they could buff it off and re-etch, but I doubt that. The grip looks bad to me....

I believe your dagger is fine.* Note the CAH raised on the tang. This was a blade made for Eickhorn by his father-in-law who was a blade forger. This means he operated a forge NOT that he made fake blades. I agree that the grip looks somewhat suspicious. Can you provide some good resolution closeups?
Jim

Thanks. But what do you thihk about a Logo? What about RZM and squirrel?

Fake!

Please explain to me why? I hope it's not so dificult to you explain this.
Thanks a lot.

Here are photos of an originalo tm and the inside of the crossguards. If you check Whitman, you will note that 1937 daggers had particular features.

As Red mentioned,
Motto and TM is not right.

The only part i like,is the tangmark

Have you seen the difference,between yours and the one Jim shown

Gerd

Thanks to all for the help.
Yes distinctions are appreciable, but I want to pay your attention that is a qualitative copy, I never saw till now on so much good copy.

I don't understand as it is possible to forge a CAH tangmark???

I recall a series of Eickhorn dual marked blades that were post war but almost identical. As I recall, the moto was incorrect on the distance from the tang. They were also from left over blank stock.

Lookibng at the dagger questioned here. The crossguards are definitely not from the period. the eagle almost looks like the original Spanish reproduction eagle.

The font of a word the "Original" doesn't coincide, but the squirrel is very similar.
You can't give the link to daggers series of Eickhorn dual marked blades that were post war?

I have recently seen a fake blade (SS 1054-39 SS) with a 100% correct CAH (Carl August Hartkopf) mark on the tang and the tang was correct in all respects and the blade did not seem reground. I was a bad etch and a bad trademark without doubt.

I probably saw others in the past but was no doubt swayed by the correct tang and mark mark. I now think that a supply of CAH blank blades has been reworked. No proof yet, but given what was found in the factories well after the war, a bunch of loose blades not yet etched is quite possible. This blade would seem to confirm that suspicion.

From now on, be careful of RZM and transitional SS/SA with CAH marked tangs. Most are probably good, but check.

- - - - - - -

This dagger ? First look in the SA Forum at the recent thread about the anatomy of a fake NSKK dagger. It is pinned to the top.

Here is what I do not like about the SS dagger here:

- The grip. The wood looks too good and the eagle looks like a buzzard

- The blade has crossgrain or scratches running up and down, besides the other stuff mentioned

- Fittings are aged but very shiny. Look at the insides of the crossguards.

Dave

This dagger is as good an example as any as to why many long time dagger collectors including myself no longer buy daggers on the open market. If I don't know where a dagger has been for at least the last 20 years I probably would not be interested in it. The fakes coming out of the former Commie block countries are getting better all the time paralleling TK rings for example in sophisticated reproduction.
Thankfully I put the bulk of my dagger collection together before that fakes got this sophisticated. I really feel sorry for the new collectos that are just starting out.
In looking back at the original dagger posted I too see somewhat subtle problems with it above what I 1st noted. A sad situation in this hobby and a real ongoing problem.
Jim

I agree Jim. It's rough time for the novice. Particularly if he's looking for SS daggers in Europe from sleeze auction sites.
There was a time where one would look at the tang for markings and evidence of 'billet clamp' marks. - That time is past.
That daggers a fake. Looks like a Czech product to me.

-serge-

Serge:
This is why I for one will quit trying to call daggers from pictures. I haven't been able to make it to shows for the past two years and I supect I've become somewhat out of touch with the latest in fakery.
It's sad,to me, commentary on this hobby at present.
Jim

I can tell that it is possible not a modern fake, not a novelty.
I a fake as early as 50 years, Jim W have expressed that saw after military copies SS with dual mark.
So the collection torn off more 30 years ago, too can contain similar fakes.
This my assumption.

Quote
"I have recently seen a fake blade (SS 1054-39 SS) with a 100% correct CAH (Carl August Hartkopf) mark on the tang and the tang was correct in all respects and the blade did not seem reground. I was a bad etch and a bad trademark without doubt."

In discussions with senior dealers/collectors in the past it was universally believed that a raised tang mark was a sure sign of authenticity on a dagger. Apparentely this is no longer the case as in the dagger that started this thread.
Jim

FAKE. The CAH is not enough to make the blade good if there are several red flags in the trademark (no, I will NOT point them out). Let alone the fake SS roundel and dodgy handle colour.

Das Reix is this dagger in your possession or are these online photos at an auction house? Just curious how did you come to find this dagger? Larry

Hello Larry, it's not my dagger. I have found it on the Internet auction, and have decided to consult at a forum. I wanted to buy it, but the dagger didn't cause trust, therefore I have decided to lay out photos at a forum.

Is this "wannabe Eickhorn" coming also from Mother Russia, like the damascus blades you've posted?

I will answer your question, but at first you answer mine.
Why you ask me about this? Where are you from?

good guestion 777

where are You from ?

As we never send the daggers to each other with International Airmail, so ... you don't need to cross the border to get to me

Why I ask this? Because it's ineresting to me. You ask several questions here and I've asked about the origin of those dodgy items. Strange?
See previous post and the mystery of my homeland will be solved

Means you too live in Russia?
This dagger was on sale at the Russian auction, but it came to Russia from east Europe. From Poland or Czech Republic .

No, I'm not from Russia
Just read my answer to Gottlieb.

Das Reix Help me out here,, what does this mean,



Where did it actually come from? Internet auctions are usually very vague in disclosing its origins. Be careful in what you are viewing. I have seen daggers being sold here in the USA with a phony electronic transfer address , but linked to another country.
Can you help us all out here so we may better understand you,, by posting the web site auction you saw this at?? Maybe we can help you with some information concerning this Auction site!! Please show us! Best larry

Larry reputation of this Russian auction not so good.
The whole auction on Russian language. You don't need to worry.
Thanks, Larry.

No worry here Das Reix just trying to help out since you posted photos from an unreliable Russian site or auction. My question to post the site was but a small request and it would of been a great help to the GDC. Best regards Larry

Dear Das Reix belive me a lot of members here knows understand and reads russian languadge. Link the site dont hide it....

Some readers already checked the auction , looks like at least damascus blades listings have ended.

If you know that auction on a damascus blade is finished, every thing must be clear to you.
Problem not there where sell such fakes, and there where them do.
It came to Russia from east Europ, from Poland or Czech Republic.

Sorry but this kind of fake SS RZM came from CZ (www.aukro.cz). Damascus blades are manufactured in Germany (have a look at www.militaria 321.com). Polish fakers are not so proffesinal ... belive me.

I second that. Blank damascus blades can be obtained on ebay for 25 bucks, Made in India.

Did you look at the squirrel's tale?

Second thought: Looking at terrible spelling of the inscription at one of the blades, I don't think all of them are manufactured in Germany, I guess it's worldwide business nowadays.