UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum Hans Rohmer, Munchen

Is there a Hans Rohmer distributor of bayonets located in Munchen?

I have heard of a Rohmer from Neu Ulm.

John

In Fisher's ref. there is listed a Hans Römer, Hoflieferant, München, a distributor of fire bayonets.

Don,

Which edition of Fisher's are you looking at? It has to be subsequent to the 5th I'm thinking.

Billy: Seventh Edition

What is this reference or series of references you're referring to?

Thx, Lance

Thanks Don.


Lance,

We're referring to Fisher's Quick Reference guide to maker marks of blade manufacturers.

Thank you for this info.

Has anyone seen or can anyone show a fire or other bayonet marked to this distributor... Hans Romer Huflieferant Munchen?

I am asking this to make sure that a Munich distributer existed and that a Neu Ulm distributor by the same name existed as well.

John

There is a poor quality photo in Fisher's that shows the spine of a blade belonging to a "fireman's billhook dress bayonet". The name and location is etched on the spine. I assume it's a WW1 bayonet. I have emailed a copy of the page. I hope this helps.

Dons:

I received the e-mail thank you. There is some question as to whether this distributor really existed as pictured. I am looking for examples, preferably on fire bayos, of this distributor mark.

If anyone has seen or can post pictures of this mark on an actual example of a fire bayo, that would be great.

John

To all

Its not a bayonet, but here is something off the internet.

The picture from the previous post is from this website


http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Helmet_Makers.htm

Here is a Polizei Tschako on this web site w/Hans name on the inside.
http://collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18686

Its not a bayonet but the name is pre WWII

Terry,

Thanks for posting these links. I know Römer was a distributor of Polizei related uniforms. They also sold related leather goods & shakos & other things I'm sure as well. I have a super mint shako & several frogs by Römer & they are of excellent quality.


On another note (aside from the location of München as opposed to Neu Ulm), wouldn't the term "Hoflieferant" connote that Römer actually produced this blade rather than just distributed/sold it?

Billy

Hoflieferant == purveyor

Purveyor is one that sells stuff not manufactures it. Am I wrong.

Terry,

I don't think you're wrong, per se. I may be mistaken myself but I remember hearing previously that the term "hoflieferant" was used in the context of a company "providing" items for a house of royalty or a specific unit, but in providing the items, there was a connotation that they were actually producing the arms, medals, ephemera, etc.

Would Hans Rohmer use Neu Ulm and Munchen on their labels or maker marks?

Aren't they two different cities?

I have heard of the Neu Ulm Rohmer as a supplier of military items, like belts and the helmets pictured here.

I am looking for the existence of a Hans Rohmer from Munchen who supplied fire bayonets.

John

John,

Neu Ulm is 60 miles due West of München, give or take. Can't tell you for sure if Hans R. operated out of München or not but I can say I've seen the Romer, München mark only once.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=neu+ulm&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Neu-Ulm,+Germany&gl=us&ei=CqWzTIuwOYH6lweQ1qz4CQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ8gEwAA

Here is what this is all about.

At the MAX, I picked up an etched fire bayonet. Now, most of these that you see are as good as a $3 bill.

This one had some unique features that I really liked and it had a couple (well 4) things that raised questions.

So, here it is. I ask for your help in answering the questions.

First of all, some shots of the bayo.

Now some shots of the port

Here are the etches. There are four on this bayo.

Obverse - service etch
Reverse - standard memory of service, but kinda skewed
Spine - Hans Rohmer Munchen
Pommel - fire motif

Now here are my questions:

1) The pommel etch has this bulbous shape, curved on both sides. Is this correct? I would have expected straight edges.

2) The bookends are very simple on both sides, not something that one sees on Klaas bayonets, or for that matter on other ones either.

3) The only Hans Romer that seems to have existed is a uniform distributor out of Neu Ulm, which is about 30km from Munchen. Would this shop have had a branch in Munich? And are there any other Romer Munchen items out there to prove this?

4) Last question relates to the font style used in the dedication... it is not at all like the font used by Klaas, more like the font used by Eickhorn. I show this etch, a Klaas dedication etch and an Eickhorn etch... look at the capital letters F, E and D.

Comments guys?

John

John it looks like there is plating inside the etched areas of the pommel. Correct?

Paul:

Yes, that is one of the good signs on this bayo.

John

232 views and no comments?

Come on guys, I can take it, good or bad.

J

The plating in the etched pommel is a good thing. The bulbus etch. Hmmmm not sure what to make of that. I guess this one comes down to how well you sleep at night. If it bothers you return it.
Fire etches are extremely rare, so few comparasons out there.

John: Inre. to your fire bayonet:
One of the first things I consider regarding originality when viewing an item of this type is motivation. I think we are all well aware that the principal motiviation of most fakers in to make money. With that in mind lets examine your bayonet:
First off I seriously doubt that the typical faker would select a fire bayonet as the starting point since they are at the bottom rung of desirability on the collecting ladder.
Secondly the etching on this bayonet is elaborate by anyones standards and one has to consider if a faker would go to this much trouble?
Did you perchance show this bayonet to Wayne Tisset(SP?) while at the show?
Additionally why would a faker go to the trouble of etching an obscure distributors name on the spine?
If this were mine I'd run it by Frederick Stephens and get his take on the actual etching. If it's amiss he will know.
Jim

Jim:

Thanks for the tip.

Can you PM me Frederick's contact info?

J

Frederick J. Stephens can be reached at: frederickjstephens@yahoo.co.uk

Let us all know what he has to say.
jim

Jim, I will have to say IMO that from a fakers point of view it's the 'net' amount invested that will realize the largest percentage of profit. So if taken from that perspective a $100 Fire bayo - triple engraved- with a pommel etch that doesn't seem to be centered properly-, may attract the largest % of profit.
At first this bayo seems like a 'Wow' piece to a etch novice like me but now taking a closer look at John's bayo my eyes go right to the squared off panels. Never seen that on a Klaas product. The design true is eloborate but there seems to be as Paul hints some items that perhaps may cause some unease for that 'good nights sleep'.
Just what I see but this is not my forte, so until Wayne, Frederick or some of our long known etch experts chime in -

Truly interesting for me also to learn from this.
Hope it turns out OK for John.

-serge-

Serge:
Your point is well taken. I also suspect this bayonet is under "Instant Replay" review even as I type this. I do wonder what this bayonet sold for at the show? IMO even at $500+ it wouldn't have been worth faking.
I have nothing to add on this subject until we hear from others with their opinions.
Jim