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Did anyone else see the etched Höller Polizei bayonet on Eban yesterday? The pics had clear swazs & I don't believe the seller was a regular seller of such ephemera.
The piece looked very interesting, a 3R production piece with later grip eagle & what looked like an aluminum hilt. It was on Ebay for less than a day before being pulled, not surprising since it had accrued a bunch of bids & was over $1200. The interesting & highly bid on items always seem to get pulled faster than most.
I thought the hilt looked consistent with another Höller with aluminum hilt that I have. The flank of the stag looked like it might be a little light in color, not sure one can tell from the photos.
1.jpg (35.76 KB, 303 downloads) 2.jpg (37.12 KB, 304 downloads) 3.jpg (45.22 KB, 302 downloads)
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These Hundertschaft Weisbaden Biebrich pieces have been faked plenty of times. On Eban alone, I've seen a lot of this "type" etch on varieties of hilts. Some poorly done, some not so bad. But the blade was always the sticking point, the fakes always exhibited the qualities of a fake with poor definition of the eagles & poorly defined borders that often bled into the blade. In short, the devil wasl in the details of these fakes.
For a number of reasons, this one seemed different. For one, it had what looked like a well done double etched blade. Maybe it was triple etched, the listing didn't specify. Much better done than the usual Eban item.
Did anyone else see this monster? Any thoughts on whether it was yet another reproduction or if it was a gem that slipped away?
4.jpg (30.73 KB, 299 downloads) 5.jpg (34.37 KB, 299 downloads) 6.jpg (24.25 KB, 299 downloads) 7.jpg (35.1 KB, 298 downloads)
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Actually it looks like it could have been an original piece. The engraving looks fairly well executed.
robert grant
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Here is a very similar etched Polizei bayonet listed on Brian Maederer's site currently. Although the Hundertschaft location is different (Frankfurt/Main) than the Eban one (Weisbaden Biebrich), the etch looks remarkably similar. Brian's piece is unmarked although the hilt looks similar as well to the piece in question.
2.jpg (117.75 KB, 295 downloads)
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Other side of Maederer piece, "In Memory of the Training Time".
1.jpg (110.1 KB, 296 downloads)
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Better shot of Maederer adler #1.
3.jpg (118.56 KB, 289 downloads)
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Better shot of Maederer adler #2.
4.jpg (97.27 KB, 282 downloads)
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Bob,
Thanks for the thoughts, that's what I was thinking. The execution wasn't typical for thetype of fakes I've seen of this etch pattern. That coupled with what looked like a legit Polizei hilt made me think this was period item. I presume someone has their mitts on it by now, anyone here get it?
One thing I've noticed in searching for similar items is that there does seem to be a lot of Weisbaden-Biebrich fakes out there but I have yet to see another Frankfurt/Main piece.
Here's a better, albeit blurrier picture of the Eban piece's adler. Initially I thought the Eban piece's eagles' beaks looked like hooked noses & the talons were poorly done but they seem to be similar to the Maederer piece in this shot.
8.jpg (22.12 KB, 276 downloads)
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IMO one thing this bayonet had going for it was the proper STAMPED IN Holler TM. I would need to see it in hand, but it does look correct to me.
MAX CHARTER MEMBER
LIFE MEMBER OVMS
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Hi Bill,
Nice looking and rare police bayo; everything seems legit even the etch. As Ron suggested in hand scrutiny would be a definite.
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The Holler is original-It is only the third one I have seen. If you do your homework you will find photos of another one in an old book.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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Houston & Fitz,
Thanks for the thoughts. I remember seeing a clamshell with blued blade & same etch in Reproduction? Recognition! that was very well done too.
I'm thinking Johnson's original series might have a shot, will check later.
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As I suspected, triple etched. Nice rivets with verdigris too I did check my old copies of Tom Johnson's series, an identical (but better conditioned scabbard) police bayonet appears in TJ Volume III, page 164. It's a very poor picture of the blade but it has the same obverse training period etch & is also a Höller marked example. This one was from Julian Milestone's collection.
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These engraved bayonets have been around for 30 years or more. Interesting, but has anyone ever thought about whether such "hundertschaft" or "ausbildungzeit" actually existed in this 1938-39 time? I don't believe there is evidence of this training or militarized formations after the Landespolizei moved to the Wehrmacht in 1935/36. The expansion of the police started in 1939 with the creation of the training battalions.
"This hobby is a continuing education" Looking for Walther Model 8 #727649 and Walther PP #975557
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Joe,
So you're saying, from a purely historical perspective, that the bayonet's etch commemorates an event that never happened? Is it possible (or even probable) that the training period in '38-'39 happened without significant write up? Obviously that would be a strong blow against the piece's veracity.
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I wanted to give a huge thank you to JohnZ, DD Harris, Bob Iqbal for bringing the this piece to the MAX on my behalf.
Alas I was yet again unable to attend the show (thus remaining somewhat financially solvent) but they were able to get hands on opinions from some of the best experts this hobby has to offer. Thanks too to Ron Weinand, Houston C. & all others who lent their expertise, it's much appreciated.
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Big brother was very pleased.
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A pair of Höllers from the same time period, reunited for the first time since the factory floor.
3.JPG (91.82 KB, 167 downloads)
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Billy:
De nada, buddy. I was glad to be able to help.
Now if only some of my pieces had faced the same outcome...
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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John, Nah, you're all aces. I'm the blind hog that occasionally finds an acorn
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B:
This ain't no acorn... this is the grand truffle herself!
Thanks for giving me the chance to fondle this and to hold in my possession for at least a couple of days.
J
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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J Man,
I'm flattered a guy with a collection such as yours was impressed. It's a good thing for me you're not into fire bayonets or daggers!
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Ron:
You did see this bayonet and hold it in your hand at the MAX. This is the one that I brought around at the show on Billy's behalf.
It got a big thumbs up from eveyone who saw it.
I just want everyone to know what a great hobby this one is. People like DD Harris and Bob Iqbal went out of their way to help out in Billy's quest to nail down authenticity of this dagger. Everyone did this out of friendship with no thought of personal gain. And, this generosity of time and aid is not unique, almost everyone that I know and have met in this hobby would do something like this to help out another collector buddy.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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