UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum C. D. Schaaf NSKK Dagger

Hi,

It's my new NSKK dagger M7/56 C.D.Schaaf, Solingen.

















I like blade condition, but I'm not sure if it was sharpened. Blade edges finnishment is very different from my other SA dagger, it's normal?

Great conditioned dagger for a late model NSKK!! Nice pick up!! Larry

To help answer your question about sharpening, please post a closeup of the scabbard opening and the blade edge.

Hi Sky,

Here is the best pictures I can take from the blade edges.











Thanks,

Ricardo

Still can't see the blade very well. See the edges of the scabbard fitting? They are kind of squared and don't come to a point. Some were cast like this and some were hand enhanced to allow the blade to pass. Yours looks like it received some hand tooling. I have also seen "canted" blades that appear to have been factory ground, not sharpened, apparently to allow a blade to pass the scabbard fitting without binding. Your blade may have received this treatment by its maker, or it may have occurred elsewhere. However, if the blade is not sharp, and it shows no other telltale scratching or surface marks, it's probably original to the piece.

Sky,

I think you're correct the blade edge was not sharpened sufficiently to cut anything. And I see interesting evidences pointeds below in green:



Seems to me this blade receveid too the same treatment:





My doubt was this is a sharpening evidence or a different factory tooling and your theory appears to explain it.

Thank you very much.

Sincerly,

Ricardo

I see quite a few daggers, usually by uncommon makers, where it is obvious that some blade shaping has taken place. One in particular I took out the other day had a fantastic curved finish to the point end with differing angles of cross graining. It was not played with and must have been done at point of manufacturing. Though it is not common on RZM's. I suspect by that time the personal touches would have been time consuming and not cost effective.

In my collection I have several examples of "blade shaping", as Spock appropriately deems it. Both SS and SA...

In this case seems to me the difficulty is to determinate what "blade shaping" is originaly made and what is a posterior adulteration.

Every once in a while you will see a blade that has been fooled around with and has been re-pointed, or had some nicks taken out the blade. I haven�t seen any really discernible indications so far that it has happened here (especially with the more complete number of images of the first dagger). And while ordinarily you would think that the blade would have received its final shaping and polishing prior to the etch being applied - there is I think another factor to be considered. Once completed the blade had to be able to be inserted and removed into the scabbard without too much effort or binding.

With a later (nickel plated) mouthpiece, if there was binding, using a file to remove any excess material from it was going to compromise the protection from corrosion offered by the plating. And because these daggers were really only intended for dress purposes there was no edge to keep sharp. With the biggest practical downside to slightly trimming the blade being that (to a lesser or greater degree) you can see it.

I haven�t seen the fit of the crossguard to the mouthpiece, but I�m assuming that its a reasonably tight fit. And if that checks out OK, I probably would not give the matter much further thought. FP

Hi Ricardo

Is this the dagger you Dagger'N'Rosed me? Anyway, its a gorgeous dagger! I love the grip! How it fits the crossguards, wow, and, to boot, LOOK at those crossguards! They have a bit of a curl to them? VERY coollooking! Like, the topguard curling over the grip, towards the bottomguard, which does the same but towards the topguard? Anyway, its a very nice dagger, truly very pretty! LOOK at that blade

Sincerely,
Karin-Renate

Good Morning Karin,

Yes, it's the same Dagger N'Roses. You're correct, I love too these curling crossguards in a dagger. Look this crossguard comparation with my early SA F.Dick, the grip is a little bit longer too.









Sincerly,

Ricardo

Ooh! Both daggers are SO nice It be a tuff choice to make , IF you had to. Almost everyone would take the early 1, I guess, but, I also like later RZM cutlery! But, I'm weird in that, probably, but YOU seem to at least like RZM too? Anyway, thanks for the compring view! The curly crossguards are clearly visible, very very cool! I like those!

Thanks Karin, You're correct I love the RZMs too, but may be my next dagger will be a transitional to complete the set and make comparations.

And some more Daggers N'Roses for your wallpapers:



Remember the red button in the other post, now it's a beautifull rose:





I think it may be will sounds strange for you, but it's our tropical winter, with hot sun and flowers.

A tropical winter? *LOL* WAIT, I should check where youre from, maybe I'll get it then But, tropical winter or not, I SO love these pics VERY much ... they are truly lovely, VERY beautiful roses, and the daggers, ofcourse, 1st + foremost gorgeous! How do you set the daggers upright when you take your shots? You dont stick them in the soil do you? In the garden here, are roses too, wild 1s, HUGE amounts! And some pink + yellow roses, more like yours? I wont steal your idea, no WAY, not EVER, your Dagger'N'Roses are yours Just, maybe, play with it a bit.

Good Morning Karin,

There is no tropical mystere about me *LOL*, I only live near Rio de Janeiro city and now is winter here in south hemisphere. Our lowest temperature is about +12�C and here is very common hot winter sun days (about +35�C)like this one I take these pictures.

Please, don't worry, I don't stick daggers in soil for pictures. I hold their blade tips in my left hand with a cotton cloth to protect blades.

Don't be afraid to steal my idea. I'll love to see how do you will to expand it.

Sincerely,

Ricardo

Rio de Janeiro?! Gosh Ricardo, you live BEAUTIFUL, and your saviourstatue is just been cleaned too I think? I somehow recall when I got to a new boarding WAAAAY back in time a girl much much older living there too, 17 or 18 or so, went on a trip, she won by calling in on a radio show, to Rock in Rio? Some 8 or 9 years ago is must be, Id need to check, but, wont bother. I remember 'cause she was really nice, and she showed me around a bit when she got back. And, young as I was I was thinking magical mysteries about Rio, not even fully understanding were that place was?

Anyway, jumping ahead in time, tropical mysteries, can be good too! Remind me to PM you a pic of 1, here in the village, a little bistro kinda thing serves tropical mysteries, and, boy, that is MUCH fruit, VERY MUCH fruit, in a HUGE HUGE HUGE bowl with icecream and whippedcream, and liquor if ordered an extra mystery *LOL* and those mysteries taste SO good, they last over an hour, but, a GREAT hour Im telling ya! But, OK, I'm blabbering, sorry, back to daggers.

Did you ever look inside your C.D.Schaaf? Do your crossguards have a makerstamp in them? Just curious who made those cool curly guards. Don't take it apart if you never looked! Keep the dagger as it is, don't wreck any patina or residu-build-up anywhere, it looks smashing, respect the dagger as is

Sincerely,
Karin-Renate

Correct Karin, Christ statue is now under maintenance. I think you're talking about Rock in Rio III (2001 edition).

I think to explain you about Rio and it's mysteries will need a entire forum for it. But now I only can antecipate you, Rio de Janeiro is placed at brazilian coast in a south atlantic bay and was founded during a war between Portugueses and French Huguenotes in 1565.

Returnig to daggers: No problems to picture inside crossguards, the dagger was disassembled before for another owner and there is no patina preserved.

I don't know crossguard's makers but they are marked F & B, one idea about it?





A interesting tang marking, I think it means CHA with a strange inverted C.





Some grip details.

Hi Ricardo, C A inside an H, is the forge mark for Hartkopf. Eickhorns father in law, nats

@Ricardo
VERY great pics as usual I wouldn't have known the maker without checking Siegert's book, but, Nats came to the rescue allready.

@Nats
Great info I may have missed it, but, never read that anywhere, the father in law thing? Somethin to put in my notes right away. Thanks!

Hi Nats,

It means that Hartkopf forged blades for C.D.Schaaf too?

May be it explained some similarities I observed in motto letters with few others makers.

Others M7/56 daggers pictures are not very easy to find, but searching on the net I find another, an SA dagger. Making comparations I observed some interesting C.D. Schaaf construction characteristics in both daggers:



1 - Curved upper crossguard

2 - The same grip format

3 - Nickel-Silver eagle

4 - The same lower crossguard



5 - The same grip/lower crossguard bad fitting

6 - The same letter style in both mottoes

7 - Mottoes dislocated upward



8 - And the same RZM marking style

I think these are very good M7/56 identification points.

That IS cool Ricardo! Nicely pointed out! Thanks! Great pics too. Sure love those curvy crossguads Awesome that Schaaf used nickle silver eagles!

Sincerely,
Karin-Renate

Thanks Karin.