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#22479 09/03/2009 05:50 PM
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Jim W Offline OP
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I received this unusual dagger. I call it unusual because the grip is actually Sami, The whole thing including grip has been painted black, and where the police emblem should be, it appears to have been ground off.

Has anyone seen anything like this.

P1010054.JPG (54.97 KB, 204 downloads)
#22480 09/03/2009 05:51 PM
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Jim W Offline OP
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#22481 09/03/2009 05:51 PM
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Jim W Offline OP
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#22482 09/03/2009 05:52 PM
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Jim W Offline OP
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#22483 09/03/2009 05:54 PM
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Jim W Offline OP
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#22484 09/03/2009 05:55 PM
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Jim W Offline OP
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#22485 09/03/2009 05:55 PM
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Jim W Offline OP
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#22486 09/03/2009 08:26 PM
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jim,

It looks like the standard police dagger with the nickel scabbard painted black and the police star ground off.

Japanese_Police_dagger_hilt.JPG (32.28 KB, 184 downloads)

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#22487 09/03/2009 09:13 PM
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A de-nazified Japanese dagger Big GrinBig Grin

Sorry, Jim - Couldn't resist

Dave

#22488 09/04/2009 01:51 PM
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Jim W Offline OP
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That's OK Dave. I am scratching my head thinking the same thing.

Orpo, thank you, It is unfortunate the Chinese are making so many reproductions of these.

#22489 09/04/2009 01:57 PM
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Dear Jim, the police symbol wasn't considered the national symbol so I find it strange that it was removed. Maybe post war by a G.I. Same with black painted scabbard. Perhaps Orpo can comment but could it have been used post war by Japanese police? Reason I ask is I believe the removed symbol is still used today (or is it fire symbol?) by the Japanese police.

#22490 09/04/2009 03:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jareth Holub:
Dear Jim, the police symbol wasn't considered the national symbol so I find it strange that it was removed. Maybe post war by a G.I. Same with black painted scabbard. Perhaps Orpo can comment but could it have been used post war by Japanese police? Reason I ask is I believe the removed symbol is still used today (or is it fire symbol?) by the Japanese police.


Jareth, you are quite right. I don't know why someone would remove the police star. This same insignia continues in police use today. Japanese policemen did retain their swords for a period of time under occupation but I see no reason to remove the star, I have only seen ground "mums" on rifles. I have not seen any defaced kiku or kiri or sakura on edged weapons that I recall. I would suspect this was done by some veteran who did not know what it might represent. Same with the paint as I see no reason to paint the same grip, particularly as white grips normally indicated higher rank than blackened grips.


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
#22491 09/04/2009 09:38 PM
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Jim W Offline OP
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I really appreciate your responses. To be clear I never had a doubt this was done post war.

As regards the coloring on the Sami. The Sami is real as I can see under a loop. On black sami grips, are they surface colored? as it appears that may be the case here. The wire looks original and I do not believe the piece has been apart.

So is this coloring normal on the grip?

Thank you

#22492 09/05/2009 01:10 AM
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Jim,

Your black grips could be original. I can't tell from the photo if they are painted (like the scabbard) or not. Originals were dyed black or bleached white so they could be either color when bought/issued. These police daggers can also have leather grips. If the grip does not look to be painted I would think that black was the original color. The one I show was black but has worn to white on the high spots.


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
#22493 09/05/2009 03:26 PM
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Jim W Offline OP
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Thank you.

I think I will test remove the paint from the scabbard. If it is nickle underneath, I will probably strip the paint.

As regards the leather gripped daggers, I have basically concluded all these are post war.

Just my opinion,

Again, thank you.

#22494 09/05/2009 05:23 PM
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IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE THAT THIS POLICE SIDEARM WAS REISSUED TO A LOCAL POLICE FORCE IN AN AREA ONCE UNDER JAPANESE CONTROL. THIS WOULD ACCOUNT FOR THE REMOVAL OF THE JAPANESE POLICE INSIGNIA AND POSSIBLY THE RECOLORING OF THE DAGGER HANDLE AND SCABBARD.


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
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#22495 09/05/2009 08:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Coleman:
IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE THAT THIS POLICE SIDEARM WAS REISSUED TO A LOCAL POLICE FORCE IN AN AREA ONCE UNDER JAPANESE CONTROL. THIS WOULD ACCOUNT FOR THE REMOVAL OF THE JAPANESE POLICE INSIGNIA AND POSSIBLY THE RECOLORING OF THE DAGGER HANDLE AND SCABBARD.


Bob,

You are thinking of former colonial mandate areas such as Korea. I had not considered that possibility but I could see that as a possible scenario for the insignia removal. I have not seen it before though, have you? I do know that the Japanese continued to police these areas (i.e. Korea, et. al.) for some time until relieved though.


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
#22496 09/06/2009 04:04 PM
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Interesting theory Bob. Sword could of been, like type 90 helmets, modified for foriegn use post war.

#22497 09/06/2009 07:49 PM
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Jim W Offline OP
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The scabbard has dents at an angle correct for door dents. Also, I do not believe the grip was colored at the same time as the scabbard. The grip color appears to be the original coloring.

The scabbard does not show plating where the apint is missing.

Based on the theories here, I will leave this alone. Whether it be a re issue after the war or modified for theater, it apears to be a part of it's own history and should remain that way.

Thank you all for your help.


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