UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum pioneer bayonet

I recently bought a nice pioneer bayo and have some general questions about them:
were they particulary issued to pioneer detachements of divisions or is that just a name under they are collected ?
in the WKC and Eickhorn catalogue they feature as 40 cm models which makers made the 35 cm models ?
thanks for your help

I'm pretty sure the term "pioneer" was something given to these bayonets by collectors/dealers & that the hilt configuration is merely a variation that was not as popular during the NS zeit. Maybe because it resembled a K98 too much? For whatever reason, they are much more scarce than other dress bayonet variations. Similar to manufacturers of the fire bayonet, I believe if a maker produced a 25cm blade, they likely also produced a 20cm blade as well.

That's a nice pioneer. I am also shooting to acquire a short variation as I only have the long one. I also believe Billy on this as I do not think these were specific, but rather a more unusual variation that was not of so much appeal as opposed to standard KS98s with finger guards.

JAN

thank you very much for that info Jan an Billy
kind regards
Helmut

Lanner,

very nice Pioneer. when you start with one you think you need two. somehow I have five find a short full bird when your able, thats a very nice one to add when you can. the hunt is always the best part, Remeber this takes years

steve,

Short full bird by C.J. Krebs

NICE !

Denny,

Yes, very nice! I can only imagine the stuff you've got salted away for a rainy day

Denny:

Billy has a point... salt is bad for the blades. You should unsalt them and bring them into the light of day.

Better yet, you should share the wealth... I could store a few for you away from the salt and the dark.

That Pioniere is a screamer. Have you ever seen a short Eick Pi hilt?

John

Denny,
Wonderful full bird pioneer. That's a beauty to be sure. Is the scabbard blued? It has that look from the pic.

These pioneers come up often, someone needs to start a thread and document the TMs of the pioneers. When I first started collecting the dress bayos, I kept notes on paper, then got a poster board and started documenting the rarity of TMs and what I had seen. Eventually I was able to see a pattern but in the last few years I haven't gotten back to it. I lost a little room in the bunker and had to move the drafting table out. Maybe we could start some stickies like they do in other forums and keep the dress TM thread, the fireman thread, a pioneer, the combat 98Ks (their codes and TMs), and a police TM database at the top. This is by no means an exhaustive list.

From looking at some of my past notes, this is what I've seen for pioneers:

Eickhorn
E Pack
Alcoso
Puma
Horster
Seilheimer
Christias
C. J. Krebs

There are many others that I have failed to document. If somebody wants to start one, here's the start for you. When it comes to the full bird pioneers on documentation, the two companies I know of are Eickhorn and Alcoso and Denny showed me a new one. It's hard to go by photos alone on those because the crossguard could be broken, removed, and buffed smooth. The chrome needs to wrap around it to be good in my opinion.

I'll add a pic if you're interested on how I first started tracking the TMs. You may not understand the shorthand but I do.

Regards,
Steve

Steven:

I have two Eickhorn Pioniere style bayonets. The first one has the 35-41 seated squirrel trademark and has the short beak.

The second one is a double oval serrated tail squirrel Pioniere bayo with full beak.

I have yet to see a short Pi hilt Eick.. this version is not listed in the Eickhorn Kundendienst or catalogue.

John

I have only two (so far...)
1. G. Spitzer, full beak
2. Cristians, short beak

Andrei,

Beautiful Spitzer full bird! Did the Christians come from Lakeside Trader?

Billy,
yes, few months ago.

Ok guy's you are making my head spin.


John you put it over the top with the full bird double oval Eick, All I can add is a short late war over the shoulder

Andrel wounderful short Christians, I did not know lakeside had a short one. 3rd I had seen of that TM on this type and not common to start with. mine is the long type.

Its hard to keep up with you guy's But I will do my best. I'll and 3 to the mix


Steve,

Don't forget E.u.F. Hörster (long blade, clipped beak)

Early Paul Weyersberg (long blade, clipped beak)

Here is a clipped beak, long bladed Emil Voos. I sold this at the 2003 SOS because it was in pretty ratty condition. Of course, I've never seen another since then. But then again, I've never been accused of being a genius!
At least it can serve as a place marker in Steve's maker list.

Here's my full bird, long-bladed C. Gustav Spitzer (2nd from left)

Oops! Andrei has already posted his nice Spitzer piece. Sorry Andrei....

My apologies for not responding to some of your earlier comments. For some reason, I no longer get notified by email when someone replies to a subscribed thread. Something has changed in my profile with the new software and can't seem to find where...
To JohnZ: All of my bayonets are on a salt-free diet!
To Steve: To answer your question; yes, the scabbard of the short Krebs is blued.
To Billy: I'm afraid you would be disappointed to see what I have hidden away.

-Best Regards to all-

Good point Denny, I would like to know if it's possible to have these type notifications restored or resubscribed?

hello, I'm new to the forum. wish to thank steven for being a true collector / historian ,with his maker mark list. please share at a latter time.
most of the companies Did refer to these as pioniere bayonets in their catalogs . most seem to be only 25 cm long but, other dress ones were offered at 20 cm. possible to have a pion. in a 20 cm ??? very nice to actually see people willing to share photos of their collection , ect. jeff

Jeff,
There are many of us here that keep stats on bayos from combat, police, fire, and Army types. As you spend more time here, you will see this.

I think Denny is encouraging me to better maintain my list of the pioneer types. My apologies to the collectors on some of the ones I've seen but did not document. As I started my list, I was just looking for the rarity factor. The pioneers got added as well as short fireman's sawtooth. If you have a fireman bayonet question, ask Terry or Billy G.

To be honest, I think a lot of others here are more knowledgeable than me but I do my best. In time, you'll find the guys who do the etches are Wayne and John Z., among others.

Enjoy reading the forums and you'll find your field of interest in time. Don't forget your K98s, Seitengewehr and Andy are good at these as well as others here who don't post often.

Regards,
Steve