UBB.threads Forums General Interest Restoration, Conservation, and Maintenance Forum Specific part; SA grip (partsmonsters-related!)

Hi everyone,

Reckon Im having a bit of a weird question ... Im not sure where to ask about this, so, Im sorry if I placed in the wrong section? not long ago I was involved in a little restoration-project; finding an obsolete blade some friends to form a complete dagger with. Now, YES, I know, partsmonsters ARE frowned upon, BUT, this blade was THERE, so, why not put it to good use, with parts that are looking for a home too? Anyway, the result, is SMASHING, but, I posted that somewhere else, and, with all the VERY gorgeous daggers here, I guess it will not be having uch interest anyway.

BUT, searching for parts, some stuff arrives in WAY less good condition as the advertised condition. OR, different part(s) arrive, or repro parts, and so on. Im telling you, its adventurous to open parcels + envelopes when doing such a project *LOL* Anyway, most people refund, or trade parts, or even refund and say "keep it, its rubish anyway". And, ofcourse, there are the people that vanish into thin air as well, no refund or trade, but, only parts having a low or reasonable price were picked. 'Cause, after all, it might be an awesome result, but its a partsmonster after all; Fun, YEAH, valuable, not so much. Bsides, the blade in question, was retipped along its historic way. The fact that its a ground R�hm, and that it looks OK nonetheless, started the project.

At the end of the project, some parts are left unemployed. 1 of those is a bit of an intriguer. It wants to be a great early grip, but, is it, realy? I'm setting it against a good, nice condition, awesome tigered grip with a nickel silver eagle. Its wings are not fully sunken in the wood, but that doesnt distract much. The grip is good and genuine. Now, the dark grip, is the 1 Im curious about.

At 1st, I thought, its a late grip? The eagle looks a bit aluminum'ish? But the shape smells like early. The grip also feels like early, if you know what I mean? BUT, its ALSO a bit "bulky"? The grip seems to be a bit fatter then the 1s I've held/seen so far? Plus, and this is a BIG negative plus, the sides that flow into the crossguards? These seem to be WAY too short! Matching the grip to crossguards results in SUCH ugly gaps, its almost hilarious! It looks as if someone attacked it with some tool, or saw, or the other? But there are NO traces of that! Looking closer at the eagles, they seem similar enough to be possibly real. Also, the SA roundel could very well be real. Ive checked for eagle-prongs, inside the grip? There are 2 of those, fastening the eagle from within. No fake-signs there. But, thats MY unexperienced opinion

Attached to this post 5 pics, setting both grips next to 1 another. Ill place more pics here. With crossguards too, just to show you what I mean? Im wondering, are there SUCH steep or narrow crossguards out there for a grip like this? Is it damaged beyond repair? Is it some sort of a weirdo but good grip, made by some worker on monday morning after Oktoberfest? Or is it just a dead simple + plain fake? Ive seen fakes, but not with such eagles/roundels? Always the wings are WAY off on fakes, and pointy too. The SA roundels, well, they look bad too on fakes. And if both are real, then the shape of the grip almost always gives away that it is a fake. I made a bit of a "study" of it, after Ive traded for a grip before, which got a bit of an adventure in itself, and I ended up with a fake grip. And I see how I couldve spotted that easily back then. But, I just didnt know ... yet

Would anyone please shoot his or her opinion on the dark grip in the pics below?

Wondering,
Karin-Renate

This is the LIGHT grip, so, the real grip. It looks OK, it fits crossguards. I used a beat-up blade just to fit it up with parts, to show it fits.

Now, the DARK grip, so the 1 in question? Fitted with parts. See how silly the fitting is? *LOL* Are there parts to be found for this? Or is it quite bogus, should I set it on fire? Or is it OK after all?

Karin,

I don't see problems with your black grip. Daggers are not absolutely equals among them, crossguards differences may be observed in differents daggers and consequently each grip must to be different to fit each different crossguard.

Hey Ricardo

Thanks for your view! And, yes, differences, many makers, and even the same maker makes differing parts, higher, lower, wider, smaller, thinner and so on, but, this specific grip, oh my, SUCH wide gaps, I never saw before? Not in pictures, not in any book, not on any forum or any site.

So, its an early grip then, yes? Are there suitable crossguards available for SUCH a high step? Like, S�hler made a low step, the grip always sticks out from the crossguard? Reckon THIS grip needs 1 heck of a steeeeep stepped guard! Or, this grip will almost always suffer from poor fitting? Also, the SA-roundel, seems up a little high in the grip, but, Ive seen that elsewhere ...

Still SO overwhelmed by your Daggers'N'Roses,
Karin-Renate

I had a transitional Ludwig Zeitler SA, RZM M7/104 Wien, Osterreich, that used a grip similar to the dark one. The cross guards were plated cast iron and the openings were smaller that normal.

Hi Vern

Thank you for the insight! I thought it was an early grip at 1st too? But, the eagle, its an early eagle, I think, when I look closely next to another grip, although it looks like an aluminum 1. Anyway, I guess it will be quite a challenge to find suitable crossguards for this grip then. Or can they be identified? Like, the S�hlerstufe-crossguards, or the HACO-crossguards, these all have SUCH specific shape?

I was wondering, your cast iron crossguards, did they keep the plating better to the body then zinc crossguards generally do?

Anyway, thanks again Vern

Sincerely,
Karin-Renate

The Zeitler crossguards are easy to identify. First, they are magnetic; and second, the crossguard section next to the grip was rounded instead of being cleanly faceted. The plating held about the same. The crossguards do rust where the plating wore off and rust penetrated under the plating from those spots. The one I had did use the nickle-silver eagle.

Hi Vern

Hmm, so, that IS interesting! By "rounded", would you mean what I call "curled", as in, the dagger that is here? Or am I totally wrong? I dont know, maybe you mean something else? Just trying to get my facts straight. Thank you 1ce more!

OH, you probably dont have any pics of your interesting Zeitlerdolch anymore I guess?

Sincerely,
Karin-Renate

Actually, I was referring to the crossguard next to the grip. It's just slightly rounded instead of sharply defined. This is the only photo I have located so far. It's a standard size on the bottom, but smaller at the top fitting.

Hi Vern,

Ooooh OK, I see it now, Im sorry, I didnt get what you explained, I see it now. A beautiful makermark! Crossed hammers + crossed swords, cool! Anyway, thanks for clarifying Vern, sorry I was slow on the pick-up ...

Sincerely,
Karin-Renate

No problem, glad I could clarify it