UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Orange Balloon anyone???

My latest acquisition, a VERY nice Gebr.Heller Balloon Man Heer. I traded for this one locally and am very pleased with it! the blade is an almost MINT plated type and the brass based fittings are in great shape. 14 leaf pommel of course! These EARLY heers are just a treat! There is a name and number lightly scratched into the rear of the crossguard that adds interest for me also.
I would like to add to a topic string that I had started in the past that Mr.Ford Crews was kind enough to get in on,Mr.Crews was trying to get a baseline on the dirrection of the oak leaves on the scabbard bands of these early Hellers showing that most examples have them running in reverse of the usual dirrection(tips leading away from the rings). This example I have goes against the other Hellers by going the previously described way! Take a look at the pics and let me know what you think Fordd!! Kevin.

more pics

another

and another...

yet another...

last...

That's a beautiful dagger!
A keeper for sure!
Bill

WOW! Congrats!
Great condition, RARE maker, and such an attractive desirable mark. Personalized, and EARLY too boot.
What more could you ask for?
Lucky you!!!

Nice find indeed. That's a mark one doesn't see too often, other than on DLV & NSFK Flyers Knives.

Congrats...

Red

I have a 1st Luft with the baloon man, tough to find it anymore.

That is a beauty you have there!

Mark

Thanks for kind comments! I have one more question for other Balloon man heer owners out there, the scabbard pebbling on this one is very unique.It looks to be hand done! It is very random tiny circles that actually overlap in areas! Have you guys seen this in your examples or other heers?? Kevin.

Tough to find an Army Ballon Man. And this one is a prime example.

Nice, conforming Heller.

Here's mine, photo quality is poor though, so I dont know if you'll be able to see what you're looking for with the scabbard.

The mark is on the front of mine as well. Personally, the vast majority of these that I've seen and handled had the mark on the front of the blade. Maybe they came that way.

Anyone else have a slant grip? I've not seen one other than mine.

I have owned 4 baloon man heers over the last several years, every one as is yours has the makers mark on the front of the crossguard, it would seem that heller and emil voos wanted there marks on the front as they are almost always found this way. An early heller is a beautiful dagger, nice catch

Hi Kevin:

Sorry it took so long. I did not see it at first.

Your blade appears absolutely stunning. There are only so many these early Hellers to go around, and I am glad you found such a nice one.

I believe our discussion centered around most Balloon Hellers having the stems of the scabbard leaves on the left (growing toward the right) and the only two discussed stamped Hellers having the scabbard oak leaves with the stems on the right (growing to the left) - like yours.

One line of thought presented was that the firms are the same, but the Stamped Heller was probably later. Your bands look like the bands of the other Hellers presented, except they face in the non-standard direction (for a Balloon Heller). Also your scabbard screws look the same. If the firms are indeed the same, it could be that yours was produced toward the end of the Balloonman run and right before the stamping began.

Regarding your comment about the scabbard shell, the shells on my Stamped Heller and my Balloonman Heller are the same, and the pebbling appears to be finer than yours. In a moment of madness about a year ago I picked up another Balloonman that has courser pebbling, more like yours. I'll try and post a photo of it on this string soon.

In any case your dagger looks absolutely correct.

Regarding your dagger Tyrel, I don't recall seeing a slant Balloonman before, I would really like to see some more photos of it.

Both daggers have that characteristic Heller Yellow grip color. A pleasure to see.

Ford

That's a great Army !

Thank you JR!
Ford, Thanks for insight on my dagger,whole scabbard on this one is interesting. Top band is NOTICABLY longer than bottom band,one is highly hand enhanced and the other isnt! Top band has a small bore hanger ring hole and the bottom is larger. This might all speak to the suggestion you made about it being in the early "transitional period" to the stamped era.The Hellers didnt seem to get as dark a grip as some of the other early daggers did they? This one actually has a light pumpkin orange grip color in person.Grip color sure can be influenced in pictures by lighting! To look lighter or darker!! I have wondered if some sellers have used this lighting trick to give thier daggers more of that "Dark grip appeal!" Anyways,great thread here! Love to see those pics Ford. Kevin.

Did a search on Heller Balloonmen. I think it is sad, we have lost Denny and now all his pics are gone too. He has shown several of these scarce armies....

Ok Ok, I�ll post some Heller / Balloonman photos over the weekend. Tyrel, if you would also post some more photos of your slant, then we�ll have another Balloon party.

In the meantime, here is stamped Heller.

Balloonman

bands

Balloonman left and Stamped Heller Right. They are identical except they run the opposite way.

Eagles: From the photos I cannot tell the difference. They are identical.

Pommels: The older looking one is the Stamped Heller, as the condition is not as nice as the Balloonman.

Ford Crews thank you very much for jumping in. You do have some very very nice and scarce daggers in your one section .

heers68, have this scabbard pebbling on an early PUMA with slanted grip (see the other thread).

Wotan: The Puma scabbard is nice, but I already told you that.

Guys: Here is the Balloonman of which I spoke. It has an atypical dark orange grip and nickle fittings and scabbard.

It has the typical nickle plated blade and standard trademark.

The nickle plated pommel is the typical Heller/Pack type.

It has the Pack type crossguard. However, this one has hand enhancing to the eye area. Kevin, in your previous string, I remember that one of the eagles also had the same enhancing. It would be great if that person could post again.

The top of the pommel has a rearing horse on a shield under a crown.

Scabbard bands are early, but not like the hands of the other Balloonman and the Heller. They run in the typical Balloonman direction. In the earlier string there was at least one scabbard like this. Tyrel I believe yours might be like this as well. What do you think?

After I posted the previous photo, I noticed that the bands appear to run in the standard army dagger direction, (right to left). I then noticed that I had accidentally photographed the back of the scabbard. It should not make any difference......

I went and checked the scabbard again. They actually run left to right in the front and right to left in the back. This is totally whacky. They change direction at the ends. I have never noticed that before on other armies. Definitely worth another photo.

All three:

I was chatting with an advanced army collector from the upper midwest. I won't say his name, because he likes to keep a low profile. (though he is welcome to jump in). He mentioned to me that stamped Hellers and Balloonman Hellers all have an E on the Tang. I checked and he is right.

Here are the two Balloonmen.

The stamped Heller is fainter, so i could not get it to come out on the same photo with the other 2.

Is this more evidence that Heller and Balloonman are the same firm.

Ford,

I love that red, yellow, and orange color combination.

Ford, what exactly would you like to see? I unfortunately can't get any more pictures for a week or so, though I do have a few saved. I've had it apart, but I dont remember the E. I wasnt looking for it though.

Tyrel

Tyrel: Your dagger is especially interesting, because its slanted grip. That fact establishes it as probably earlier than the others. We know that a couple of other Balloonman armies had scabbards like yours. It would be nice to conclude that those daggers are earlier as well. However, your shell looks more like Kevin's?????

I would like to know about the E on the tang, but mostly I would just like to see more of your dagger - just because it would be a treat. I understand about the pictures no hurry. There are weeks when I cannot even visit the forum to look.

Wow! missed some real action here over the weekend! WOTAN: Your puma scabbard pebbling is just like mine! I thought this was interesting how it looks hand applied with the overlapping circles and all! FORD: your Heller with the personalized pommel is great! And interesting in its variation from the norm. THANKS for all the great pics and info guys. By the way mine does have the "E" on its tapered tang. If I can post more pics of mine to help with any questions that develope let me know! Kevin.

Sounds good. I'll get it apart and get some good (hopefully...) photos as soon as I can.

Best,
Tyrel

By the way, is the one with the personalized pommel the same one Johnson had at the 2004(?) MAX?

Tyrel: Sound good on the Photos - they will be nice to see.

Regarding the Balloonman with the personalized pommel, all that I know is that I have had it for about a year. I did not get it from Tom Johnson, but the seller could have, as he was another collector and not a vet. I would rate the blade as a strong near mint - if that helps.

It would be great to hear from all the Balloonman and Heller folks regarding the "E" on the tang?

Kevin

Sorry, I did not acknowledge your post. It would be cool to see the tang with the E. Then maybe everyone will get into it.

I thought I would share a closeup view of the Balloonman crossguard eagle head. I have never seen a Pack eagle enhanced in quite this way. The eye is sharp and a channel has been cut down the beak so that the raptor can see straight ahead. I just love the detail of some of these guards.

Thats an impressive bird Ford! I cant say that I have seen that variation before!Nice catch! Kevin.

Thanks Kevin: The guard is why I wanted the dagger. Under most conditions it looks ordinary, but under close scrutiny and in the correct lighting, it simply comes to life. Unless another like it turns up on another maker, I am going to assume that is a modification unique to Heller.....

Mikee: Regarding the E on the tang, I went back and looked at the old string and saw that you had suggested that the E might be a unique feature to Heller. I want to recognize you for that. No one else picked up on it, including me.

Well it looks like the timing was not right for another Balloon party. Glad we didn't spend a lot on invitations......

Ford

Hello,

Sorry for my delay in jumping in the conversation here but I was finally able to upgrade to a new digital camera a couple of days ago. I wanted to wait until I could get some decent photos of my Hellers before making a post. My old camera just wasn't able to get decent closeups.

I was the previous owner of Ford's "Balloonman" with the crown and shield on the pommel. I had purchased it a couple of years ago from Tom Johnson.

I still have a couple of Hellers in my collection. One has the "Balloonman" logo while the other is the stamped version. Both of my examples have the "E" stamped on the tang as well. As observed by both Kevin and Ford I also believe this to be a unique feature on Heller blades.

Also note that the pebbling on the scabbard of my "Balloonman" example is much larger than normally seen especially when compared to the pebbling on the stamped Heller.

Doug

Here's the "E" on the tang of my "Balloonman" Heller. It has been ground down some but it is definitely an "E".

Here's the "E" on my stamped Heller.

Scabbard pebbling of the "Balloonman" Heller.

Scabbard pebbling of the stamped Heller.

"Balloonman" logo.

Stamped logo.

"Balloonman" crossguard.

Stamped crossguard.

Heers and Ford ,
that a wonderfull daggers .I speciality like the nice tonic on the grip from the last dagger .Thanks for showing .

Doug, Thanks for posting!! GREAT pics! What camera did you buy? Obviously I need a better one like you have! Kevin.

Hello Kevin,

I bought an Olympus SP-320. It is a 7.1 megapixel camera with a super-macro mode. It allows you to focus within 2cm (0.8 inches) of the object. A camera with this type of super-macro mode is what we need for the types of things we photograph. You can also record short clips of video with this camera as well. I'm still figuring out how to use all of the features but so far I'm very happy with it.

My very first camera was an Olympus OM-1 that my parents bought for me when I was in high school back in 1980. Since then I've always been partial to Olympus cameras.

Circuit City is having a tremendous sale on them right now. You can get the camera with a free 256MB memory card for $219.99 (after a $30 mail in rebate). I ordered mine online (www.circuitcity.com) and received it within about 4 days of placing the order.

Take care, Doug

THANKS for reply and info on camera Doug. I will look into that! If you dont mind me asking,what is the maker of the slant grip heer on your avatar?? Very nice! Kevin.

You are welcome. Both the Army and the 2nd Luft featured in my avatar are by Max Weyersberg. Here's a larger version of the avatar.

Doug

Here's the other side.

Hi Doug;

Nice to see you online. Now that you are posting, I am sure it is ok to mention that you are the person who pointed out to me that both the stamped Heller and the Balloonman share the E on the tang. Also, If no one else has yet welcomed you to the Forum, I want to be the first. Your knowledge regarding army daggers is tremendous and it will be nice to hear your opinion on the some of the uncommon variations presented here from time to time.

For those of you who do not know Doug, he has two things going for him that should make everyone on forum very, very happy. The first thing is a modern, high quality digital camera. The second thing is a little harder to come by, and that is a truly "World Class" army collection, and the term "world class" might even be an understatement in this case. I am just hoping you can find a moment from time to time to reach into that safe share some of those gems.

Those are beautiful Hellers you posted, and it is not surprising to see you still had 2 left. Also that is a nice pair of Max Weyersbergs you have there.

I don't want to side-track Kevin's Balloonman string to ask questions about other daggers, but I would love to see more photos of your Weyersbergs (perhaps a new string?). I am particularly curious about the army. The crossguard looks like a Pack second type, but it has features of the first type also? What type do you think it is? I would also like to see the rest of both daggers. Whattyouthink?

Again Welcome
Ford

Hello Ford,

I really appreciate the kind words and the welcome. Hopefully, I will be able to contribute more often now that I have a nice camera that makes the process of taking decent photos a lot quicker. With my work schedule and other time constraints it just hasn't been easy in the past to contribute quickly.

I've been working hard on my Army collection and appreciate your praises about it. You have a very fine collection yourself and look forward to seeing more of your collection as well. I'm still working on some of the harder to find makers but the search is one of the things that makes this hobby enjoyable. If everything was easy to find then it wouldn't be as much fun.

When I get a chance, I'll start another string about the Max Weyersberg daggers.

Take care, Doug

A superb show of beauty!

Ford is just outstanding in his taste and knowledge of these shiny objects!

Doug is coming on in some great pics!

With Denny and others wares this forum could
provide a real show!

I think Bob Rodgers has a few also!

Better than a book!

PVON

I forgot all about this topic. I have access to my Heller now, unfortunately, my digital camera has been rather moody lately, so I dont know if pictures are possible. I will try.

And those are some fantastic daggers. Glad to see someone else with a such a great collection and knowledge posting. We all have much to learn. Glad to see another Ohioan too!

Hello Tyrel,

Sounds good, would love to see some photos of your Heller if you are able. Also, would like to know if your tang has the raised "E" on it like the others that have been posted.

By the way, my brother lives in Cambridge. Go Bucks!!!

Doug

Doug, Thanks for reply and great pics! I have never seem a WMW that early and with that mark! Just great! I know have another one to look for! Kevin.

To keep this from disappearing

Hey Guys,

Sorry I have`nt chimed in earlier, but have been pre-occupied with chasing a NSKK chained dagger and Knightscross, to the same person!!
In a previous thread regarding the balloon man, I posted one or two pics of my SLANT grip balloon man, but unfortunately my hard drive crashed and I lost 5 years of pics
Anyway, I`ve made a few more, albeit poor quality, of mine and I hope this contributes to this thread. Below are the pics

The first is of the slant grip which Tyrel has also got.

The crossguard of brass based metal

The pebble finish on my scabbard

Last, but not least, the E stamp on the early tapered tang