UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Orange Balloon anyone???

My latest acquisition, a VERY nice Gebr.Heller Balloon Man Heer. I traded for this one locally and am very pleased with it! the blade is an almost MINT plated type and the brass based fittings are in great shape. 14 leaf pommel of course! These EARLY heers are just a treat! There is a name and number lightly scratched into the rear of the crossguard that adds interest for me also.
I would like to add to a topic string that I had started in the past that Mr.Ford Crews was kind enough to get in on,Mr.Crews was trying to get a baseline on the dirrection of the oak leaves on the scabbard bands of these early Hellers showing that most examples have them running in reverse of the usual dirrection(tips leading away from the rings). This example I have goes against the other Hellers by going the previously described way! Take a look at the pics and let me know what you think Fordd!! Kevin.

more pics

another

and another...

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That's a beautiful dagger!
A keeper for sure!
Bill

WOW! Congrats!
Great condition, RARE maker, and such an attractive desirable mark. Personalized, and EARLY too boot.
What more could you ask for?
Lucky you!!!

Nice find indeed. That's a mark one doesn't see too often, other than on DLV & NSFK Flyers Knives.

Congrats...

Red

I have a 1st Luft with the baloon man, tough to find it anymore.

That is a beauty you have there!

Mark

Thanks for kind comments! I have one more question for other Balloon man heer owners out there, the scabbard pebbling on this one is very unique.It looks to be hand done! It is very random tiny circles that actually overlap in areas! Have you guys seen this in your examples or other heers?? Kevin.

Tough to find an Army Ballon Man. And this one is a prime example.

Nice, conforming Heller.

Here's mine, photo quality is poor though, so I dont know if you'll be able to see what you're looking for with the scabbard.

The mark is on the front of mine as well. Personally, the vast majority of these that I've seen and handled had the mark on the front of the blade. Maybe they came that way.

Anyone else have a slant grip? I've not seen one other than mine.

I have owned 4 baloon man heers over the last several years, every one as is yours has the makers mark on the front of the crossguard, it would seem that heller and emil voos wanted there marks on the front as they are almost always found this way. An early heller is a beautiful dagger, nice catch

Hi Kevin:

Sorry it took so long. I did not see it at first.

Your blade appears absolutely stunning. There are only so many these early Hellers to go around, and I am glad you found such a nice one.

I believe our discussion centered around most Balloon Hellers having the stems of the scabbard leaves on the left (growing toward the right) and the only two discussed stamped Hellers having the scabbard oak leaves with the stems on the right (growing to the left) - like yours.

One line of thought presented was that the firms are the same, but the Stamped Heller was probably later. Your bands look like the bands of the other Hellers presented, except they face in the non-standard direction (for a Balloon Heller). Also your scabbard screws look the same. If the firms are indeed the same, it could be that yours was produced toward the end of the Balloonman run and right before the stamping began.

Regarding your comment about the scabbard shell, the shells on my Stamped Heller and my Balloonman Heller are the same, and the pebbling appears to be finer than yours. In a moment of madness about a year ago I picked up another Balloonman that has courser pebbling, more like yours. I'll try and post a photo of it on this string soon.

In any case your dagger looks absolutely correct.

Regarding your dagger Tyrel, I don't recall seeing a slant Balloonman before, I would really like to see some more photos of it.

Both daggers have that characteristic Heller Yellow grip color. A pleasure to see.

Ford

That's a great Army !

Thank you JR!
Ford, Thanks for insight on my dagger,whole scabbard on this one is interesting. Top band is NOTICABLY longer than bottom band,one is highly hand enhanced and the other isnt! Top band has a small bore hanger ring hole and the bottom is larger. This might all speak to the suggestion you made about it being in the early "transitional period" to the stamped era.The Hellers didnt seem to get as dark a grip as some of the other early daggers did they? This one actually has a light pumpkin orange grip color in person.Grip color sure can be influenced in pictures by lighting! To look lighter or darker!! I have wondered if some sellers have used this lighting trick to give thier daggers more of that "Dark grip appeal!" Anyways,great thread here! Love to see those pics Ford. Kevin.

Did a search on Heller Balloonmen. I think it is sad, we have lost Denny and now all his pics are gone too. He has shown several of these scarce armies....

Ok Ok, I�ll post some Heller / Balloonman photos over the weekend. Tyrel, if you would also post some more photos of your slant, then we�ll have another Balloon party.

In the meantime, here is stamped Heller.

Balloonman

bands

Balloonman left and Stamped Heller Right. They are identical except they run the opposite way.

Eagles: From the photos I cannot tell the difference. They are identical.

Pommels: The older looking one is the Stamped Heller, as the condition is not as nice as the Balloonman.

Ford Crews thank you very much for jumping in. You do have some very very nice and scarce daggers in your one section .

heers68, have this scabbard pebbling on an early PUMA with slanted grip (see the other thread).

Wotan: The Puma scabbard is nice, but I already told you that.

Guys: Here is the Balloonman of which I spoke. It has an atypical dark orange grip and nickle fittings and scabbard.

It has the typical nickle plated blade and standard trademark.

The nickle plated pommel is the typical Heller/Pack type.

It has the Pack type crossguard. However, this one has hand enhancing to the eye area. Kevin, in your previous string, I remember that one of the eagles also had the same enhancing. It would be great if that person could post again.

The top of the pommel has a rearing horse on a shield under a crown.

Scabbard bands are early, but not like the hands of the other Balloonman and the Heller. They run in the typical Balloonman direction. In the earlier string there was at least one scabbard like this. Tyrel I believe yours might be like this as well. What do you think?

After I posted the previous photo, I noticed that the bands appear to run in the standard army dagger direction, (right to left). I then noticed that I had accidentally photographed the back of the scabbard. It should not make any difference......

I went and checked the scabbard again. They actually run left to right in the front and right to left in the back. This is totally whacky. They change direction at the ends. I have never noticed that before on other armies. Definitely worth another photo.

All three:

I was chatting with an advanced army collector from the upper midwest. I won't say his name, because he likes to keep a low profile. (though he is welcome to jump in). He mentioned to me that stamped Hellers and Balloonman Hellers all have an E on the Tang. I checked and he is right.

Here are the two Balloonmen.

The stamped Heller is fainter, so i could not get it to come out on the same photo with the other 2.

Is this more evidence that Heller and Balloonman are the same firm.

Ford,

I love that red, yellow, and orange color combination.

Ford, what exactly would you like to see? I unfortunately can't get any more pictures for a week or so, though I do have a few saved. I've had it apart, but I dont remember the E. I wasnt looking for it though.

Tyrel

Tyrel: Your dagger is especially interesting, because its slanted grip. That fact establishes it as probably earlier than the others. We know that a couple of other Balloonman armies had scabbards like yours. It would be nice to conclude that those daggers are earlier as well. However, your shell looks more like Kevin's?????

I would like to know about the E on the tang, but mostly I would just like to see more of your dagger - just because it would be a treat. I understand about the pictures no hurry. There are weeks when I cannot even visit the forum to look.

Wow! missed some real action here over the weekend! WOTAN: Your puma scabbard pebbling is just like mine! I thought this was interesting how it looks hand applied with the overlapping circles and all! FORD: your Heller with the personalized pommel is great! And interesting in its variation from the norm. THANKS for all the great pics and info guys. By the way mine does have the "E" on its tapered tang. If I can post more pics of mine to help with any questions that develope let me know! Kevin.