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Isn’t it fascinating how information that stated years ago changing and seeing with different eyes today, tomorrow, next month etc? This is cool and makes this hobby even more exciting to me.
Wagner is right, it’s sad if collectors have avoided good items because of the wrong information and unwritten rules stated long ago.
Maybe it makes sense that every serious collector always should doubt questionable information stated long ago if the proofs aren’t 100% today?
I found this thread very much educating as I always trying to be open minded and see things with different eyes no matter what it is.
This hobby really is a never ending lesson, Amen!
Sam,
"Honesty is the best policy"
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Yep, I remember that thread as well. Soon after reading it I bought a SA online and when it arrived I was horrified to see the suspect "open hammer" mark, immediately thinking I had just been conned with a fake. On closer inspection I was convinced it was period, it had the numbered "A" marked tang, lower scabbard screws, short throat and quarter sawn oak grip, all popular hallmarks of a Pack...
Red
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I had a Full Rohm as you describe Red. I believe that the raised "A" had a circle around it ??
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In addition to the open and closed, pointed or none pointed hammer, I also recall that the "lost" thread on the Pack logo went into some detail on other characteristics such as "Siegfried's" knee and the tie of his belt. A complication for me, with regards to Pack ground Rohms, is that the grinding tends to not only remove the inscription but also significant parts of the maker's mark. As you can see from the following, my Pack ground Rohm sometimes looks like the hammer is solid and sometimes like it isn't, and the "&" is almost totally obliterated, all because of the grinding. I can remember reading the thread and running for my Rohm, examining it closely and feeling somewhat undecided. I didn't however, "dump" my dagger as I'd been happy with it for a number of years and had paid very little for it when I first located it. Now, all of that is said, I hope that this is the beginning of a new thread on the Pack logo, as the loss of the old one and many, many other valuable informational threads, is far more than regrettable! But that has been discussed as well. ~ Ian
First picture appears to have the solid hammer head.
GDC Gold Badge #0204
"Even if such objects cannot change the soul of man, at least they give him an identity." - Heinrich Himmler
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Second picture, different angle, different light, different look (IMO).
GDC Gold Badge #0204
"Even if such objects cannot change the soul of man, at least they give him an identity." - Heinrich Himmler
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Unfortunately there isn't even enough of the signature to help.
GDC Gold Badge #0204
"Even if such objects cannot change the soul of man, at least they give him an identity." - Heinrich Himmler
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Here's the differences on the maker marks...
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Well guys, if the trademark on the left hand side is now considered to be an original, I'll eat it for brakefast.
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Oh Yea..that's the rare Epack "Variant" logo with the "Open Pointed Hammer" PLUS.. The forger is looking "straight",and has lines at his knee and ankle, plus the hanging "ribbon" between the legs. Dems gotta-be RARE! -wagner-
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Damn Pat, That breakfast looks mighty tasty..
Mike
The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.
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Ham,,sausage,,bacon!,,, That's a heart attack on a plate..
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I agree with Pat completely! But if I am reading this thread correctly we better get a big glass of Orange Juice with that breakfast to wash it down! Hope your hungry!
Silver Badge #0398 My Avatar = My dagger security system!
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The logo that Scott posted on the left is post war. What I am saying is: "Not all the open hammer Siegfried logos are absolutely post war; and not all the filled hammer logo are of the war time period. If you're using this as an absolute guideline you may be making a mistake. Each dagger no matter what logo is on it, needs to be evaluated on it's own.
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JR, Gailen & All ..... What a Great Discussion & another superbly informative Thread which has supreme relevance to us all.
(Was reading TW last nite & just happened to note that EP & S + Eickhorm made the 'bulk' of early SS Daggers - so these noted differences are germaine since we see so many EP & S).
This also points out the WHY that I personally choose to stay away from an EP & S Rohm - unless JR, Gailen & Houston ALL 3 have given a written COA OK on it!!. Dave ....dblmed
[Always looking for TeNo � Schuma � Technische Noodhulp Items...]
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This is an EP&S maker mark on a Reddick SS blade. I misplaced the original receipt the owner had when I purchased it from him. It was like $79.00. starky
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Appreciate that one Sir! JR
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So if the one on the left is from a $79.00 Reddick blade, and the one in the middle is from a reproduction then, is the one on the right from another Reddick blade? From an original? What, if anything, is there about the maker's mark on a reproduction that we can/should be looking for? ~ Ian
GDC Gold Badge #0204
"Even if such objects cannot change the soul of man, at least they give him an identity." - Heinrich Himmler
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Can anybody tell a original from a fake ? at this stage of the Game ? jim toncar
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quote: Originally posted by Jim Toncar: Can anybody tell a original from a fake ? at this stage of the Game ? jim toncar
Yes we can, the full Rohm inscription being the most important feature for authenticating an original dagger.
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Jim,
Perhaps with a hands-on inspection by someone such as Gailen David. Otherwise, in my oft-mentioned opinion, NO. Especially from digital images.
Dave
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Here is another example of a Pack logo that we can be sure is legit since it's on a plain jane firemans dress bayonet. No one to the best of my knowledge has ever faked these! As you can see; It's quite different from the ones pictured above. Jim
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Jim, I have that same logo etch on a dress bayonet that I've owned exactly 44 years! My 1st 3rd Reich edged weapon that I still have today.
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Yep JR: This one came from a guy who had it just about that long. I just posted it so everyone could see that Pack used a lot of different trademarks. Jim
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You must remember that the Rohm inscription was part of the template with the E. Pack logo, So i would expect minor differences as compared to the bayonet logo.
Gailen David
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So how did we solve this? Real or fake.
Bob
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This Reddick created a ton of landmines to collecting German TR daggers.
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OK so this is fake. Its back on ebay.
Bob
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Hi I find this thread and i'm little confuse. My partial ground Rohm is 100% original,bud what about open hammer and large & ? Please help me ,so i can sleep better.
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Interesting ? so can we conclude after THREE Years we have a dagger (e Pack Rohm) that no one can tell if they have a original or a fake ?? jimtoncar
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quote: Originally posted by Pat: quote: Originally posted by Jim Toncar: Can anybody tell a original from a fake ? at this stage of the Game ? jim toncar
Yes we can, the full Rohm inscription being the most important feature for authenticating an original dagger.
Same answer as 2 years ago, Pack full Rohms are easy to spot if you know what to look for.
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