UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Rohm Dagger Forum SA full Rohm

ehy guys there is an Sa full rohm on ebay and i need your help to see if its real here is a pic im just not sure if the logo should be that close to rohms name lol i put a 5000.00 max bid on it and i need to know if i need to retract it or not here is the id number 190135459375

Well, he didn't give you much to look at! I think you have an 80% chance it's bad. I'm not sure but there one part of the inscription I have a problem with right now. I could be wrong. Pictures Ask for more pictures and post them and we will try.

Gailen David

I think the hammer head not being solid black is a bad sign, and the knee has a line that goes all the way across, which is bad..there are some prior posts on these. John

BAD BAD BAD known bad makers mark!

Johnny's right, absolutely bad !

You guys have better eyes then I. Know I must be getting old as I can't even see the damn hammer. Somebody shot me.

Gailen

Hello. I have what is, I think, a genuine full Rhom SS dagger. I requested additional photos from the seller of the SA dagger listed on e-bay and have had an opportunity to compare the two Rhom signatures. Unless my eyes deceive me, there are several easily spotted variations between the two. Specifically, the "O" & "H" in Rhom and the connection between these letters is different.

I agree the maker mark is a known fake for the reasons given above already.
Here is my Pack full Rohm makermark for comparrison.
Ivan.

Gailen, Are you of the opinion that all SA Pack logos with the open head hammer, of post war reproduction ?

Yes.

Jr: I am not sure I understand your question for sure. Do you mean the one with the spade?

Gailen

quote:

You guys have better eyes then I. Know I must be getting old as I can't even see the damn hammer. Somebody shot me.

This is the statement that I'm asking about Gailen.........

Gailen,I think JR means a hammer head not coloured in black,IMHO,these are fakes,they go with the line all the way across the knee.
Ivan.

quote:

think the hammer head not being solid black is a bad sign, and the knee has a line that goes all the way across, which is bad..there are some prior posts on these. John

This is the statement by Dr. John

Here is my question. Is an open hammer head logo the sign of a reproduction ??

Can we agree that this Siegfried is holding something that looks to be a hammer or mall ?

Is the head of that tool open or filled in ?

Are there period logos by Pack that have the open head of the hammer ?

ok if all open hammer head e packs are repro then why did a well known and respected dealer sell this one on his site. when i questioned him on it he said its real.

Open head hammer..............

JR: Yes, your Honor I made that statement you just sent in quotes and I stand by it. "I can't see the hammer good in the damn picture." Show me a picture of the bad trademark with inscriptionI that can see.
Gailen

Gailen, the picture that Seany shows is exactly the one that I've asked you about. Are there Pack logos that have an open head hammer, that are period made blades ?

Just got the enlarged image and no I don't like it. I see a mistake in the inscription.

It was I who sold that piece and I believe it is correct. The inscription tells the story.

Gailen

Jr: There must be or I wouldn't have sold it.

Gailen

Very good, and thank you Gailen. Do you like the Pack logo on the dagger that Seany posted. The one in which the Siegfried that is holding a hammer with an open head ?

Very good Sir, as I too agree that there were Pack logos that the trademark was etched using a Siegfried holding an open head hammer. Thanks for your help on all.

If the one he sent me picture of that I sold is considered an open head hammer then the answer must be yes. Does that answer the question?All thisis my opinion of course.

Gailen

Jr: I must believe they did an open hammer or I wouldn't have sold it. Either that or I'm a crook.

Gailen

Yes, I sold it. You can tell by the red cloth in ther background which I have used for years.

Gailen

The tradmark is still blurry. Look at the line that goes up before the "R" in Rohm. See how dosen't lean enough to the right as your looking at it?

Gailen

I felt like rat trapped in a hole!

Gailen

quote:

I felt like rat trapped in a hole!

Too much Dude!

I think because of the Rex Reddick Rohm blades, many collectors automatically dismiss any Pack logo on any of their blades, that have the "open hammer" logo and also at times dismiss the large "&" symbol in their company name.

gailen i belive you to be a very honest dealer more so than the very top one's in this game. its just when you said that all open hammers are bad i remembered that one. i too have a ground rohm with this mark,i know where it came from so i know its real and also fred stephens has seen it and ok'ed it.i belive that redick got hold of a real rohm with this style maker mark and its this one that he used to make all his copys.
heres mine
regards
sean

As you say Sean, the Rohm that Rex used to copy his by, no doubt was a legit blade with the open hammer logo; and the very reason that collectors are scared off right away when they see this on any SA dagger.

OK, I am LOST!!!
I have read about EP&S Rohm daggers in the past and have ALWAYS heard that the easiest ways to spot a BAD EPack was to look for:
1) The "open" hammer head (AKA the "pointed" hammer).
2) The "&" which is as tall as the other letters in the name "EP&S".
I understood that these were AGREED upon points about which there was no debate. There was a LONG thread about this very topic about a year ago, I have looked and looked and cannot find it, seems it was deleted.
I just don't get it, what am I missing? How have we managed to change our minds about these pieces so quickly? I am NOT implying any "dirty dealings" I just want to understand what I missed....
Thanks for any input that could set me straight.....
Johnny

Dear Lost Johnny, You cannot tell a period EP&S blade using the reasoning that you stated in #1 nor #2 of your last post. As you can see there are 2 SA's posted that show the "open hammer" and these dagger have gone through the hands of those with quite a bit of experience. If you search the SS Forum, you will find several Pack M33 that were etched with the large "&" that are period pieces as well.

EP&S as well as Eickhorn, no doubt bore the lion's share in manufacturing 125,000 SA Rohm daggers in the year 1934. We have already seen that in both SA and SS Rohm production, Eickhorn blades were produce with a different motto etch and a different squirrel logo. As suggested, this could very well could point to the fact that some of Eickhorn's production was source out to another firm that specialized in blades.
My thinking is that perhaps EP&S did the same and evidence of that might be detected in the open hammer Siegfried logo and perhaps when comparing the "Alles fur Deutschland" motto.

At the end of it all, what really counts is the engraving on the blade but again, some have suggested that there were more than one template and that boths were different.
All I can say is that the next few months ( or years ) should be quite exciting and that many theories may be found to be wrong.
However, what's also really important, is to be able to back up any new theories with hard fact evidence.
Words alone won't be enought.
Too many people are suggesting things whithout any hard fact evidence, and this is where it hurts the hobby.
If you listen to the same theory over and over again, after a few months ( or years ) the theory becomes legitimize eventhough it has never been proven.

I must admit that JR is bringing some interesting arguments that should be taken into account.

Who said that this hobby was easy ?

Thanks for the info. guys!!!
Learning somthing new all the time!
Johnny

Well I also remember that long and detailed E.Pack thread with a lot of photos that Johnny was refering to. It's gone now..but it wasn't that old???
And I do recall that the consensus among the more experianced of our group was the the "Open
Hammer" and the "big &" were sure signs of a "BAD" EPack.
So I wonder what has happened to turn that consensus around since that thread?...wherever it went.
And I can't help and wonder how many collecters had "dumped" these "Open Hammer" EPacks thinking they had a bad blade?? Only to find out now..."Hey they are GOOD"!
-wagner-

Wagner- AGREED!