UBB.threads Forums General Militaria Historic and Period Firearms Forum Smith & Wesson Victory Model .38

The serial number of a British converted Victory Model S&W .38 showing the V prefix. Found and purchased from a local collector's estate.

Mark

barrel markings from England.

British converter mark.

Mark

This company is still in business today and can trace the history and owner of the majority of their weapons, I am not sure if this applies to converts.
Great gun Mark !.

http://www.cogswell.co.uk/archive.htm#

Thanks for that link. It opens up a lot for me to pursue...maybe they have a record of this piece.
I like provenance very much and appreciate the lead!

Mark

Mark, I'm not familiar with a British conversion on the S&W Victory models. When we shipped all those weapons to Britan to forstall the German invasion, I thought they took everything as it was received. If it'll shoot we'll take it. Over the years I've seen a lot of weapons that passed through Britian and received the pressure test markings, including Lugers, P.38's and even an occasional DSM or KKW trainer.
I don't think I've seen a "Converted by" marking like yours however. Was the caliber changed on your pistol? Neat piece....

Hi Denny,
The caliber marking is .38 S & W CTG

The cylinder is stamped with a crown as well as the butt of the grip with the following: C v B p

The article on page 104 of the November issue of American Rifleman is very interesting regarding these pistols.

The American issued Navy and Marine Corps pilots model, the article says, were marked with ".38 S. & W. Special CTG". The rest were Lend Lease revolvers however the article says that they will also "usually be found with U.S. Property markings", which this specimen does not have. The article says some will differ.

I also have a Garand with a build date of 9/41 that has no U.S. Property markings on it, just the usual Springrield marks and then the British proof on the bolt with the date.

The seller apologized profusely and shrugged "If it didn't have those import marks on it, it would be worth a lot more. I'll let you have it for $700.00."

That is a $5,000.00 rifle, unmolested and TE of 1.0. My best Garand purchase ever.

Mark

Here is the article page covered by the pistol.

(Thanks to Jim M.)

As Mark and I discussed; Untold thousands of these were converted by British firms such as Cogswell & Harrison and many were sold here back in the 60s. I've been actively looking for one that had been converted to 22LR(Sleeved) but so far without success.
Jim

Thanks Mark & Jim for the info. I'm still a bit confused by the "Converted by" stamping. What did Cogswell & Harrison convert? Other than the English proof marks, has anything else been done to this revolver? To my thinking, "converted by" implies something more extensive. Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn something guys!
Mark, I AM familiar with the Lend-Lease Garand. Nice Catch!!!

Denny, I don't think a single thing was done to this revolver either. I have not fired it yet. Maybe a .38 S & W Ctg is a slightly different size than a regular .38?

Mark

The 38 S&W cartridge is somewhat different from the 38 SPL. Powerwise it's basically identical to the 38-200 which was a standard British service round. Revolvers in that caliber were not very desirable after the war hence the conversion to 38 SPL. Now here's the rub. The conversion was done by boring the cylinders out to take the longer 38 SPL cartridge. However the 38 S&W case is slightly larger in diameter than the 38 SPLs so while the pistol would fire the ejected cases would all be somewhat bulged.
I can post a picture of the two different rounds if this isn't clear.
I don't know of any failures due to this but my recommendation is that never under any circumstances should 38 SPL + P ammunition be used in one of these conversions.

Jim

quote:

I don't know of any failures due to this but my recommendation is that never under any circumstances should 38 SPL + P ammunition be used in one of these conversions.

Jim

Yikes!!! Sounds like a wall hanger to me. Thanks for the info gentlemen.

The revolver should be perfectly fine with standard pressure 38 specials. I don't think a 38+P would blow it up, but it would certainly cause it to wear out much more quickly.

If you want to shoot +P ammo buy yourself a NEW 38 SPL rated for this ammunition or,better yet, get a 357 Magnum. Remember you are only alloted ONE set of fingers.
Jim

I am not going to fire it at all. I think it's a neat little piece of history that kinda goes along with my only Lend Lease Garand.

I'm keepin' all my digits!

Mark

I'd keep it just for a collectible myself. But +p ammo would not "blow it up". The standard K frame is plenty strong enough for +p 38's. The cylinder walls are also more than adequate. Other than eventual possible timing issues, that pistol would go several thousand rounds of +P's with no worries of "losing fingers".