UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Police Uniforms Forum Schutzpolizei Organization (pre-WW2)

Sources such as the SHAEF/MIRS Handbook tell us that only Berlin, Hamburg and Vienna were large enough to have Schutzpolizeigruppen.

Now that we are lucky enough to have access to detailed biographies of whom became Police generals, thanks to the good work of authors in the USA (Miller) and Germany (Schulz et al), data emerge that have confused at least me. For example:

- if Berlin had a single Schupo-Gruppe, how come it had five Gruppen (Mitte, Ost, Sued, West and Nord)?

- could these Gruppen in fact been Abschnitte?

- Polizeioberstleutnant Oskar Paul Knofe, for example, commanded Gruppe "Nord" der Schutzpolizei in Berlin from 1 May 1937, succeeded by Oberst der Schutzpolizei Eberhard Herf

- similarly, if Hamburg had just one Schupo-Gruppe, how can it have had two Gruppen: "Ost" and "West"? (Oberst der Schutzpolizei Eberhard Herf commanded Gruppe "Ost" der Schutzpolizei in Hamburg.

It seems confusing that a Gruppe could have contained Gruppen! Perhaps terminology changed as time went by...

This may be a bit obscure, and not uniform related, but this Forum has been so helpful in the past I thought I'd give it a try!

Best wishes to all

hpt

Hugh, I see no contradiction between the SHAEF generalization and the information in the German/US officer biographies. The SHAEF manual states that only Berlin, Wien and Hamburg were large enough to have Polizeigruppen. Each city indeed had a number of Gruppen. Berlin had the ones you mention:North, South, East, West and Central. These are listed in Hsi-Wang's (sic) book on Weimar Berlin Police, along with the Abschitte and Revier I believe.

Joe, thanks for your comments. My original impression was that only Berlin, Hamburg and Vienna were large enough to have ONE Schutzpolizeigruppe apiece, but I get your point: Berlin was so large it had five Gruppen, etc.

That clears that up.

Thanks again.

hpt