UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum 1st Railway by Holler???

I just picked up an excellent railway with an awesome dark purple grip, but the maker is Holler. I was told that only Klass made these. That seems illogical because they seem to be Heer daggers with different grip color. Please educate me on this. Thanks, Mike (I tried re-sizing and posting a pic with no luch, sorry)

Posting for drmike:

Thanks Paul, I guess what I'm saying is that no other "branch", even the SS,used one maker exclusively...why would the railway do it? Mike

I do remember seeing a dagger with a similar grip color at the Meadowlands Show in N.J. this was a good 10yrs. ago.The grip was a deep purple as this one not sure of the mfg. but it was not a Klass.This color is described in Johnson's Vol.1 for 1st R.R. and the dagger shown is by WKC

I too have seen a Heer dagger with a deep purple grip. The dealer who was selling it made a case that the grip was intended to be purple because it was issued to a Heer Chaplin. Apparently the Army priests had purple aspects to their uniforms and the idea was that these purple gripped Heers were issued to army chaplins...
Seems like a stretch, but who knows!
I am VERY interested to hear more opinions...

FYI...I searched endlessly and there are 2 "1st Railway" for sale on snyderstreasures.com, one by Eickorn and the other by Tiger. Mike

The scabbard appears to have a swirl pattern, also there appears to be no scabbard throat screws? Do you have any pics of the maker mark and a closeup of the crossguard?

Red

There is a single throat screw on the reverse side. There is a 1st Railway by "WKC" in Johnson's book, which he emailed me is original. Someone has to be wrong, either the "Klass theory" is wrong or Johnson's book and other dealers selling them are wrong. Any thoughts on this, thanks, Mike

Hi Mike!
I almost never would slam one of my peers however, Snyder is not someone I would trust if my life depended on it. Do a search on him; I am sure a lot will pop up on him.
What my opinion is that I briefly mentioned earlier is these grips are not for the railway but a cost cutting maneuver by Klaas, a variation and not a dagger for another organization. All of the black handle Army and 2nd Lufts which are consequently made by Klaas always have traces of white paint on the grips.
The color of the grip on this dagger is not the color you find on these daggers. The color from the pictures appears to be an artificially colored grip that was collector done. Just for kicks take the dagger apart and see if there are any scratches in the finish in hidden areas.
Talk soon,
Bob

By the way, the last post was written by Bob Iqbal. Bob Grant visited a few weeks back and he was the last person to log into GDC and I did not know he had not signed out.
Best Wishes,
Bob

you guys are all wet on this one,,this is obviously a Trolon grip that has slowly,and methodically changed color over the course of time,,,it was originally a white grip,so if you see white on the inside of the grip,there is your answer,,lol,,

Sorry, I cannot understand what discussion is going on here: Don�t you see the tree because of the wood???
A (perhaps) 1st Mod. RRPP imo should have at least early (!) fittings and at least, according to the time frame, typical (!) fittings for a certain manufacturer.
What I can see from the not too good pic is a very late finish, untypical for H�LLER fitted dagger with spurious colored grip.
Thus all releases me of any further thoughts about this certain dagger.
Just my observation, regards,

Posting for Mike...

Mike, the reason I asked about swirl patterns on the scabbard is that they are seen on the early Spanish copies. Your scabbard screw is on the obverse of the scabbard, it should be on the reverse...

Red

Its the first grip I have seen with the inner swirls a lighter colour than the raised segments, that alone should speak volumes!

Thanks to everyone for their input. The eagle is exact when compared with a mag. glass to the one in Witmann's book page 33. He also shows a scabbard with the throat screw on the obverse on page 87..so maybe these bands have been reapplied at some time. And, i totally don't understand the white paint issue. It's probably a "parts dagger"??? Thanks again, MIke

What I can see in the pic it is NOT H�LLER�s crossguard from pg 33 (remarkable differences in breast feathering, region of the feathering towards the claws, peak, eye and head and the swirls of the crossguard ends to name some points) but the generic "B" crossguard from pg 99. all the fittings and the scabbard seem to have the late nickle finish instead early silvering.
additionally I want to mention that recently I have heard of a test done by a collector with a brocken (yellow)grip: He did cut the grip into a lot of discs and did bake them seperately at different temperatures. They came out from deep yellow over dark red to brown all in several shades and even a brilliant black......
Regards,

When the whole damn grip color thing was the thread to post in a few years back,I'm sure a few remember it?? least the member who didnt leave!!! someone was going to also test grips with UV light from a welder, leave one in the front dash of a car on bright days, I think the list of experiments went on also. Someone, rather who ever has this dagger needs to shoot a good shot of the maker mark. A groovy tie-die grip color does not a honest dagger make!!!
Bret Van Sant

This is like the time I rang a guy who had advertised a Heer dagger in my local paper. I asked him what colour the grip was. There was a pause and he said "What colour did you want it?"

Thanks again for everyone's opinion. IF someone actually owns one with a black or purple handle would you please contact me. Thanks, Mike.