UBB.threads Forums General Militaria Flags, Field Gear, and Miscellaneous Militaria and Regalia Forum Could this be a period Adolf statue ??

Gentlemen could this be a period piece ?
I have bought this under the impression that this is a post war piece so I wont cry myself to sleep if it´s not period :-)
It´s made of bronze and weighs 1,2 kilo
and is 28cm high. The photos dont do this piece justice at all, it´s an awsome display piece.
Do anyone of you guys have any ideas about this piece ??
Any comments is much appriciated !
Stay safe, Hakan

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looks pre-'45. nice item. you don't see many "standers."

markings?

Thanks for the reply David, no I cant see any markings. I actually think this is a period piece but cant be sure,
but if it´s a repro of any kind they have made a damn good job making it look old.
Hakan

Have tried to take a few more pics with better light. Does anyone else have any thought of this statue ? Anything whould be appriciated.
Thanks, Hakan

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Hello Hakan.
It's 100% original.
It's made in what we french call "un petit bronze" which means that it is hollow on the inside. You can find it sometimes in Italian beautiful black marble base.
This little statue was also given to Party Members as an award and in this case a small solid silver or even a "vermeil" plac is attached to the base.
It is very fragile, be careful.
I have seem only a couple more in almost 20 years collecting.
it is very rare and VERY expensive!!
Congratulation.
Dennys.

Hello Dennys !
Thank you for your answer, so it´s original then ! Thats great news !
You are correct about the statue being hollow on the inside, you can hear it´s hollow if you
knock on the body with your knuckles.
Denny, how much in your opinion whould a piece like this be worth ?
Once again thanks for your reply !
Best, Hakan

Hello Hakan.
Yes, it's original for sure.
The value for this item in this condition would be arond 4K to 5K, may be more, I am not so sure. The ONLY one I saw for sale in a dealer a long time ago (Hermann Historica in 2001) the starting price was 3K.
The same statue as an award with the plac and black marble base will cost a LOT MORE. I have only seen once in a collection.
Regards, Dennys

- and I sold the statue to Håkan for $300

Good thing he's happy !!!

Jesper

Hello, I was wondering how one would go about trying to determine if a bronze statue was an original pre 1945 casting or later post war reproduction. Is there some way to tell, something for us to look for? Thanks for any advice on this.

This bronze plague comes from the same household.

Value ?

Thanks !

Jesper

Back...

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry:
Hello, I was wondering how one would go about trying to determine if a bronze statue was an original pre 1945 casting or later post war reproduction. Is there some way to tell, something for us to look for? Thanks for any advice on this.

Hello Jerry.
I do understand your concearn.
To this day I never found one that is, without a doubt, a reproduction, which make me to believe that this particular item has not been copy yet. This statue is not like the famous Nürnberg NSDAP desk eagle for example, which you can find originals and repros everywhere.
My comments are based on what I have seen, "hands on" or by pictures, with special attention to everything, from the curves of the uniform, the details of the decorations to the resulting condition to the painting.
However, experience is always a good tool.
Thank you.

P.S. I will post bellow, with the OK from the owner, a picture of the best Third Reich, Adolf Hitler "petit bronze" I found.

Thanks for that pic. Dennys and for all your help !!!!

another

last pic

I took some pictures of my AH statue and the detail of the first one posted is verly low compared to mine and the one posted by Dennys Jorett (looks identical to mine).

I believe Hakan81's statue is a cast copy of an original.

Best regards,

Kris Simoens.

back of statue

Very good thread and discussion!

It's clear from the photos that the statute shown by Hakan81 does not have any of the casting details of the statues shown by Dennys Jorret and kris simoens.

Furthermore, the plain base is nothing like the other ornate bases.

In my opinion, it's a copy and not worth "4K to 5K, may be more". It's probably worth something in the hundreds. So the $300 sale price seems ok.

I'm glad you wrote that, Carinhall, cause then I don't have to cry over the loss

Jesper

quote:

Originally posted by kris simoens:
back of statue

Hello kris.
I cannot make any comment because I cannot see your pictures.
Can you post those again please.
Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Carinhall:
Very good thread and discussion!

It's clear from the photos that the statute shown by Hakan81 does not have any of the casting details of the statues shown by Dennys Jorret and kris simoens.

Furthermore, the plain base is nothing like the other ornate bases.

In my opinion, it's a copy and not worth "4K to 5K, may be more". It's probably worth something in the hundreds. So the $300 sale price seems ok.

Hello Carinhall,
I cannot comment that because I cannot see the pictures from Kris.
However the statue offered by Hermann Historica never had a "ornated" base and I am sure it was authentic, so as the auction house.
If this is a repro they have just started producing those. I'll tell you that it was a good start.
The price for it is RIGHT. To give you an idea, I offered 9k for this one I posted and the ownwer didn't let it go. I wouldn't let it go either.
Thanks.

Dennys, in North America, even for original items such as the AH bronze, no one, and i mean no one, pays the kind of prices you quoted.

You can find this item, and better, for much less money due to the number of high quality artifacts brought home by American servicemen.

I have a bust that is one meter high and weighs 25 pounds, that came out of a municipal building in Berlin, and cost me last year, all of $400.00

Even for original items of the one's shown, no one will ever pay $9000.00 for it, there is just too much to be had..

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Kenwright aka "KURSK":
Dennys, in North America, even for original items such as the AH bronze, no one, and i mean no one, pays the kind of prices you quoted.

You can find this item, and better, for much less money due to the number of high quality artifacts brought home by American servicemen.

I have a bust that is one meter high and weighs 25 pounds, that came out of a municipal building in Berlin, and cost me last year, all of $400.00

Even for original items of the one's shown, no one will ever pay $9000.00 for it, there is just too much to be had..

Hello Doug.
I am sorry to not agree with you. I am fully aware about how prices works in America and how that is hurting collections and collectors!
In America my 100% original 1933/1936 transitional SS dagger worth 2k but in no time the price rises to 8K and I had offers for 11K.
Something, somewhere is very wrong.
Hermann Historica set this price in 2001!
I believe I am not the one to blame, but anyway everybody, but me, likes a bargain despite ethics and honesty. I know how that works specially at GDC.
But I must say you are a lucky person! You bought this Hitler head for $400.00! I offer you right now $1.000.00 if original as you say.
Thank you!

It seems the pictures in my previous post weren't showing.

Here's a second try.

Kris

the back

Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, what a fantastic bronze figurine.
Great details and crafmanship, a real piece of art.

Yours and the one sold by Jesper are indeed, very different and have nothing in common.

Hello Kris.
Your statue is very good and of course one of a superior quality.
But the best is, by far, the one I posted.
Thanks for the pictures.
Dennys.

quote:

Originally posted by Pat:
Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, what a fantastic bronze figurine.
Great details and crafmanship, a real piece of art.

Yours and the one sold by Jesper are indeed, very different and have nothing in common.

NOTHING IN COMMON?
Both statues are identical and original. Some have better quality wich does not mean the other is a repro. May I remember that even decorations had their pattern of quality extremly deteriorated as the war progressed.
You'll have to excuse me but everytime I read something from you I desagree, that when you are not saying "gee...that's a nice item" with nothing tecnical to add to any discussion.
At least to this thread you said Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Something rather new I guess.
Are you an expert on everything or may be an expert in nothing?
But congratulation you earned another post!
Thank you.

EXCUSE ME Dennys - but there are ABSOLUTELY NO REASONS to be RUDE towards Pat !!!

NO ONE here are experts - and NO ONE has the right to call themselves that and behave ARROGANT towards fellow collectors

PLEASE keep a good tone on this wonderful site

Jesper

there is definitely a big difference between the first one posted and the next 2, [you can't even make out the swastika on the armband!],,and you don't have to be a expert to see that.!.

Guys like Pat and others collect quality,,anything of superior quality whether it be a blade or a jacket,, after a while you develop an eye for it.. So while no true experts here as none of us were there or have seen how period pieces were manufactured we give our opinions. Knowing that pieces like these were not made thru out the war,,and in fact most were not being made once the war started they would/should have the good detail and quality that the first one clearly lacks,,,hence the comments the guys don't like it or think it reproduction...

oh yeah,,everything and anything made during the 3rd reich has been reproduced from life size Hitler head bronzes to condoms...

quote:

Originally posted by Dennys Jorret:

quote:

Originally posted by Pat:
Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, what a fantastic bronze figurine.
Great details and crafmanship, a real piece of art.

Yours and the one sold by Jesper are indeed, very different and have nothing in common.

NOTHING IN COMMON?
Both statues are identical and original. Some have better quality wich does not mean the other is a repro. May I remember that even decorations had their pattern of quality extremly deteriorated as the war progressed.
You'll have to excuse me but everytime I read something from you I desagree, that when you are not saying "gee...that's a nice item" with nothing tecnical to add to any discussion.
At least to this thread you said Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Something rather new I guess.
Are you an expert on everything or may be an expert in nothing?
But congratulation you earned another post!
Thank you.

The first piece photo'd appears to be a cheap trinket, maybe period but 300.00 seems like a fair price. The second does look the best but the photo is very dark and can't see the color of the bronze well at all. The third is not bronze from appearance and has the look of many reproductions that have come to market, so if the second one is identical to the third than there is a chance that the first piece is original and just cheap manufacture and the other two possible reproductions or just low grade 3rd Reich items. An offer of 9k for the one photoed is insane really as it is way too high and these are probably 3-5K for a nice original example.

So why don't you re-shoot your best piece, and the Nuremburg eagle next to it as that looks funky and maybe we can get to the bottom of these pieces. And I am sure you have the recorded auctions from Hermann's on hand with final sale and description right?.

These are 3rd rate pieces, the one that has promise appears to be the dark one, but hit that with a flash and lets see how nice it is then. Want to be obnoxious?, no problem. Photo your piece and show your auction results as I do not believe these are worth anything near your #'s and two are probably fake.

Not everyone know's everything, if a guy comments on how nice a piece is so what?. Now put your cards on the table and lets play for real.

Dennys, everyone believes that their items should rate top dollar.You may find that special someone who has more money than sense who will pay $9000.00 for a period Bronze, and good for the person who can get that.Unfortunately, paying that kind of money only means you scare away 95% or higher of the people who would like to jump into the collecting game.

I will assume that you took the $11,000 you were offered for the dagger, and if not, why?

I am glad you like bargains.Those of us who buy and sell for a living DO give plenty of 'breaks' to collectors here, sometimes to our detriment when the Euro dealers surreptitiously buy our items than jack overseas collectors for 5-10x the amount.There are great items to be had here, and many friends to be made.


I have handled many, many period bronzes, and busts, and sculpture, and Allach and am quite familiar with what the average and common piece will go for in our market.

I bought the bust for $400.00 yes, but i did not have to go through 10 middlemen and pay inflated European prices based on how much effort the seller expended to come here and buy it.

It will be for sale at the Max, alongside a period (albeit smaller) marble bust of Goering, for $2500, if you wish to inspect it.

quote:

Originally posted by Dennys Jorret:

quote:

Originally posted by Pat:
Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, what a fantastic bronze figurine.
Great details and crafmanship, a real piece of art.

Yours and the one sold by Jesper are indeed, very different and have nothing in common.

NOTHING IN COMMON?
Both statues are identical and original. Some have better quality wich does not mean the other is a repro. May I remember that even decorations had their pattern of quality extremly deteriorated as the war progressed.
You'll have to excuse me but everytime I read something from you I desagree, that when you are not saying "gee...that's a nice item" with nothing tecnical to add to any discussion.
At least to this thread you said Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Something rather new I guess.
Are you an expert on everything or may be an expert in nothing?
But congratulation you earned another post!
Thank you.

I just arrived from work a few minutes ago and poured myself a nice glass of wine. I'm now all relax to respond.
First of all, thanks to you both (Jesper and Gaspar) for your good words.
Second, I think that you have it all wrong Dennys.
I wasn't refering to your bronze figure, which no one can really appreciate since the pic is so bad, eventhough it is worth $ 9000.

I was simply referring to the bronze figurine bought by Hakan......NOT YOURS.

We are also entiltled to our opinion and if someone doesn't want to hear what we think.....well, don't post any of your stuff in the first place.
This is a public forum for everyone to enjoy and learn.
My intention was in no way to descredit your bronze and neither did I ever said that it was fake.
I'm still a novice when it comes to Allach or bronze and would surely like to learn more about it.
I'm mostly just a dagger collector and would like to expand my interest into other fields.

That's all I had to say !

God Bless

Pat
P/S: By the way, the wine is good.

I want to thank everyone for posting on this topic ! Lots of thoughts and opinions and thats all this great site is about, we just all have to accept others opinions & thoughts even if we think they are not our own, we all have different opinions from time to time.
Regarding my AH statue I have bought it under the impression that it was a repro, if it´s an original piece thats great. No matter what I have decided to keep this anyway, I paid $300 for it and think it is a very good display piece
among my other collectibles that you have seen from time to time on the site.
I agree 100% that mine dosent have such fine details as the other two, maybe they are repros instead
but I think there is a chance anyway that this is a period piece with a lack of details
because it looks so old and patinated with an hands on inspection, but hey I am no expert and never seen such a piece before, just other
bronze sculptures. No matter what I love it and that is all that counts in the end

Once again thanks for posting !!
Have a great weekend all of you !!
Best, Hakan

Neither of the statues look bronze the first looks like bronze washed spelter as does the last one ,I take it they both way a ton ? if you scratch them somewhere unseen is it a bronze colour ,a magnet wont stick to bronze ,Rob

Hi Rob !
Yes it has a bronze color and no it´s not magnetic. It´s 28cm high and weighs 1086 gram.
Best, Hakan