UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons German Sword & Miniatures Forum Stolen SS officers Degen

Folks, I had this sword w/portapee and an SS dagger disapear at a fed ex shipping center in Charlotte NC...the sword is an early SS all nickel no makers mark on the blade...proofs on the pommel and scabbard.

We are in a small collecting community
If this sword comes your way please contact me at 705-567-5252.

Thanks Lee

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Having a tough time mate, you have my sympathy.

Nolan

Very sorry to hear this--and what is good 'ol FEDX going to do about it?

What a shame. They look for insured items that are valued highly, medications, and elongated items that may be firearms.

Truly disgraceful.

sad sad sad, I wish you the best to get the stuff back. Keep us updated how FEDEX responds on this issue.

This is why I have insurance with CIA. I had a loss through theft from one on the carriers last year and CIA just went ahead and paid my claim. You could spend years trying to get a fair reimbursement from a carrier.
Jim

Thanks for the sympathetic comments, fellas.

I had it insured so I am dealing with Fed Ex regarding that now....

Lee

You shipped the sword............ the sword was insured........... the shipper was Fed-Ex............. What is it that they don't understand ?? Tell them to fork the cash over.

Lee, If you have not already, report it to the police. The sword will likely wind up in a pawn shop or at a show. Most police departments receive daily pawn shop transactions records. Given the likely mentality of the thief, that's probably where it is or will be. Be sure to check your local ads for the sword, too. He may try to sell it himself, having no idea as to its value.

Yep..check the pawns in range of a 20 min drive from the centre..no one ever said thieves were smart or not lazy!

Lets keep an eye out for the pieces...

I have seen stolen pieces end up being offered to dealers so i will keep an eye out as well in case anyone offers them to me or people i know..good luck!..

Accumulator,
Did you ship this sword and the stolen SS dagger you posted on the dagger forum in the same package?

Yep! It was coming out to rest here awhile.
-wagner-

I feel for both of you guy's. For what it's worth i'll keep an eye open.
Eric W.

A Tragic & an Expensive Loss ! !
Beautiful SS Officer's Degen.

? What has FedEX done ... to remedy the situation, as of 1 month, post theft? Dave ...dblmed

As I have been told, Fed Ex won't insure any collectible above $500.00. I have been told this by there representatives at my station. If this is true, I would NEVER use FED Ex.

Items are still "missing". Fed-Ex has not yet paid on claim. Still "investigating".
-wagner-

sue the bastards, it was insured for how much?, and they lost it. get a lawyer.

As I said before, I can't figure out Fed Ex's insurance policy. The WILL let you insure any value, but if you read the fine print in their manual, they will not insure collectibles above a certain amount. They take your insurance money, then they don't pay above the listed amount in their manual. Pure theft in my opinion. This is why I won't use Fed Ex on valuable items. UPSP is the best and UPS is a far second, but at least you have a chance with them.
JMO,
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

That is a eye opener Ron!
It will be interesting to see what happens since accumulator is also an attorney who is ready to "take the gloves" OFF.
I can't say more...
-wagner-

This is a very interesting topic & something that I've wondered about many times when you send something valuable into the hands of the others hoping it will arrive safe & sound. I've also had a bad experience with the USPS regarding getting them to pay what the item was insured for. Similar to what Ron states about FedEx, the USPS will happily take your money but will buck when asked to ante up on an antique item that goes missing, particularly if the item is a 3R militaria item.

I had a lot of trouble even getting my out of pocket cost for the item back from them. Forget about the fact I paid several hundred dollars less than I could have sold it for, I still conisdered it a moral victory I got something back.

I think many of us luss ourselves into a false send of security that a shipped item is "insured", but we really need to anticipate how a carrier will react in the inevitability they lose something of ours that's valuable. I guess a good suggestion is if you have to ship something valuable that you first get some sort of valuation statement from some sort of "expert". Despite my small experience I would still say I'm more comfortable with the USPS than the other two major carriers.

There is a collector's insurance who will insure your item with any carrier, but I think you have to buy the insurance on a yearly basis. Anyone who uses this service on this sight? I hear they do pay out on losses well, but don't have the experience with them.
If things continue with the insurance that the carrier's offer, maybe this other insurance deserves looking into for our own protection.
I have had a few claims with UPS and it was a rather hard sell to get the money. They even questioned my UPS driver who picks up here on a couple and luckily he backed up our packaging on a damage claim telling the company it was a UPS breakage problem and not my packaging.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

I have insurance with CIA and have been happy with them. You are automatically covered for up to $10,000 with either UPS or FEDEX. With USPS the rules are different. In order to have an item covered by CIA you must ship Priority with signature required. To get the signature required option with USPS you must also insure the item for $201 with them.
I just shipped a very valuable British shotgun to a gunsmith for some work and USPS was by far the least expensive way to go.
I've had one claim with CIA over the years which was paid. It's not cheap but IMO it's worth it.
I know Craig Gottlieb has had at least one claim with them and there are perhaps others on the forum who can relate their experiences here.
Jim

Shipping our collectables is a real problem. Since you have to state with UPS what the item is and it's value!
Plus UPS wants $1.75 per hundred for insurance.
You can have a "shipping rider" with CIA for a lot. I mean A LOT less, if you have a policy with them. I have been made aware of this by "Johnny", since I just shipped an "expensive" shipment and was still reeling with the awful experience
with accumulator on the "lost" SS items.
Let's face what we all know: This hobby maybe offensive to some, repulsive to others, but it sure is a HIGH theft item...If..they know what's in the box.
-wagner-

When something like this happens it just makes your guts churn, I know & I am sorry to hear about anyone having a problem like this. Time used to be when postal workers were screened before being employed & could be trusted but today anyone seems to get a job.

whenever I ship anything or am awaiting something as I am right now I am always anxious for every day that passes & that is a very sad indictment of the world today.

Good luck guy`s & let`s hope this works out sooner than later.

From what I have read and talked about with other collectors, I think the best combo for expensive stuff is CIA + USPS Priority Mail. Why ?

CIA has a very good reputation. I have yet to hear of anyone not getting satisfaction.

USPS takes theft more seriously, from what I see, than do UPS, FedEx, and other commercial services. Theft of US mail is a Federal felony offence and the US Postal Inspectors are armed and sworn Federal police. A complaint to them starts the ball rolling at a much higher level. With the commercial services, you make your complaint to some guy who has zip in the way of power. HE decides if the police get involved, and then it is probably the local guys, not the Feds.

USPS Priority Mail is a bargain and only a little bit more than standard postage. Signature Confirmation is a bargain. If you use Priority Mail, USPS will give you great boxes for free.

My 2c

Dave
PS - And photograph the item thoroughly so that every imperfection, dent, watermark, etc is documented. This makes for great info on Forums like this and helps you prove that a particular item is the one that was stolen.

I forgot to add in my post above the virtually anything we collect in this hobby can be shipped USPS priority. The major exception are handguns that have to be shipped UPS overnite and the recipient party,unless it's your firearm being returned as a repair, has to be a FFL license holder.
Jim

Update on this story. Both the SS Chain and this Degen have now been recovered........... and quite a big twist to this on going story since the time that both of these stolen items were offered to me the 3rd week of June.

OK, but I haven't heard back from Accumulator on the "update". I also hear that own JR and a friend of his had played a big part in it's recovery.
Can the story be fully told now?

-wagner-

Wags, you pick it up from the sale, and I'll continue from that point if you wish.

Just spoke to Accumulator. There are a couple of items still in "development". It's going to have to wait a few more days.
-wagner-

Just for information--on items worth more than $1000-for US shipping-- I always ship USPS Priority insured mail-REGISTERED.
When you ship this way the item goes from one locked box to another--and is signed for each time including when it is received. Hard to have anything stolen when it is sent this way so you pay LESS than you would sending priority insured. Try it-you will never ship any other way. Takes a bit more effort--all box seams have to be taped with PAPER tape-and when they receive it-- all those seams are stamped with a security seal.
For items less than $1000 you can still use this service and it costs about the same as regular priority with full ins.

Houston,

I sent a Luftschutz belt buckle to Germany via USPS Registered Mail several years ago. The piece went missing & it took 4 months for me to get the max insurance on Registered Mail back, which was around $40.45. The piece was worth around $100 so I took a loss on it but I felt I should point out even Registered Mail isn't totally safe. Turns out the piece never left the US, probably pilfered at the post office itself or the main local hub. As far as losses go, I consider myself lucky but it still galls me that some post office tool was able to snatch it.

Regarding this saga though, I'm very happy the stolen items have been recovered. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a collector of sorts working at FedEx. Didn't we hear of a similar story with CanadaPost? I think the items were coming from Tom Wittmann.

Nothing is perfect. Would you rather your items were signed for and go from one locked box to another and pay less for a better service or just thrown in a bin? If stolen I think even the postal inspectors might be able to figure out who stole it?

I have also lost items in USPS registered mail. The postal investigators took over a year to get me the highest compensation..$40.50. You have to insure the package as well, which I did not. At that time I did not have CIA which I now do.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Ronald Weinand:
As I have been told, Fed Ex won't insure any collectible above $500.00. I have been told this by there representatives at my station. If this is true, I would NEVER use FED Ex.

UPS HAS THE SAME POLICY. I GOT TAKEN BY THEM MANY YEARS AGO. THEY DO NOT EVEN OFFER YOU AN ADJUSTMENT ON THE INSURANCE AMOUNT PAID.

Not right Bob: I have had more than one claim with UPS over $500.00 and they paid on all of mine. You had to be in their face, but they did pay the claim. Maybe its because I have daily pick up and have an account with them, but they paid me.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

On the 26-27th of May, Wagner emailed me about an SS Officer's Degen and M36 Chain dagger that he purchased out of the classifieds on GDC. He wanted me to look at the photos and give him my evaluation on the pieces. I emailed him that I was familiar with the degen as the owner had once listed it on eBay and the auction ended without reaching the sellers reserve. At another date, another GDC member posted the same degen on this site asking for assistance from the members as he was trying to buy the same degen. You can find these 2 topic and see the same photos of the sword in both threads. In one the sword was listed on eBay and the other where a GDC member was asking collectors to help him out, since he was interested in a private purchase of the same piece.


On or about the 21st of June, Christine Murphy contacted me in reference to see if I wanted to buy an SS officers degen and M36 chain dagger. After looking as a couple of fuzzy email photos, I was convinced that they in fact were the same 2 items stolen on 26th of May, and in fact the 2 edged weapons that Wagner had purchased on the classifieds but were stolen at FED-EX/ Kinko's, in NC.

I contacted the owner of the items, Lee Schwilm, to find out what the status of the investigation and his claim was on the 2 SS pieces. He explained that FED-EX had not settled the claim and that a police report had been filed. At that time I informed him that I had a lead on the stolen items. While Christine didn't physically have the dagger and sword in hand to make a positive identification, the thief promised to send the items to her to see if she wanted to buy them. This went on for a couple of weeks without the items ever showing up. Then on July 12th Christine called me to say that the thief mailed her the dagger and the sword, and that she was able to make a positive ID on both pieces from the pictures that I had emailed her that were posted on the GDC forum.

At that time I put Lee Schwilm and Christine in contact with each other to work out the details of the return of $13K worth of stolen SS edged weapons. I believe the items were returned to Mr. Schwilm on July 17th. He paid Christine for the shipping and said thanks for the help, and that was it. To this date the thief has not even been processed and still continues to harass Christine on his stolen items and or payment for them, since he sent the dagger and sword to her without any front money.

Without my identifying the items as being stolen property in the 1st place, and Christine's help in obtaining the stolen goods, this recovery most likely would never had happened. But seeing how the items were insured for $13K through Fed-Ex and that Mr. L. Schwilm is an attorney himself, the money most definitely was a sure thing regardless of the items ever being recovered. Mr. Schwilm has told Christine that if he recoups any "pain & suffering" money from Fed-Ex, that he will see that she gets at least something out of it.

$13K in returned stolen items get recovered and sent back to the owner of those pieces, and he sends out a couple of emails with a thank you note?? Not that I should expect anything more.............. but I was a little surprised to say the least.