UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum Goverment Officials Daggers Debate.... Overpriced?

I am in the market for a Eickhorn GO dagger,(I think they are SUPER!) However as we all know they are VERY high $$$$ Wittmann has 2 nice NM for 6k each. He told me that he sells 2 or 3 per year. This is a man whom does 1.5 millon per annual sales!!! Per Tom

My question is since they are very slow movers for "ALL" dealers it would seem that the GO daggers are pricing themselves out of the market?

What has the market trend been on these daggers?

Your thoughts.......

They been way to expensive since I can remember, but the price have not incresed at the rate that daggers such as SA or SS have but it has not got near the following, But these guys raise the prices on these things every year and we have to pay it if we want them, the smaller dealers they don't raise their prices as fast but they do soon after coming close to matching the top dealers prices. Thats why I rarely buy something at full price because then and only then are we allowing them to set prices at these levels, they have without a doubt priced younger collecters out of the market for certain daggers and I won't believe anyone that can say younger people can afford to collect anything but the common daggers. While these already weathy dealers are selling these other daggers overpriced when they really don't need to anyways they have already got the market cornered, and us younger collectors which is few and far between get to buy the peas from the apple orchard because we have houses to buy and families to support but it is about them not us, not get people into the hobby about getting what they can out of the hobby. I will collect regardless, I will be happy with the peas, but alot of newer people in the hobby will not and they will take up more affordable things, I will continue buy from veterans and families of vets or search for ages to find a deal in the mess of top tier set prices on the net. I may get flak for my thought but I know more then one collecter my age that get discouraged by these prices, my s__ts common yes because I can't afford these class dividing prices. Enough from me give me some more SA's and HJ's before the prices go up after all there a SA book coming out so at least I have a few soon to be overpriced daggers I am sorry for my ranting but it get to me and others so I speak.

Two Chained SS daggers or a New Mustang, lets see
Ten Chained SS dagger or a decent middle class house, lets see

Well I am going to light a fire with the fuel I dribbled......... Yes I do agree with you 110% dealers tend to set prices However that is what some people are willing to pay. Like SS degens and daggers. 8k for an NM? WAY overpriced! My HJ Leaders dagger sis 10,000X more rare but sill a bargin by any chained SS prices. However try to find a GO dagger from a vet or vet family member.. good luck. I have been looking for years to no avail. I tend to buy the hard to find daggers off of dealers. I just bought a very nice NSKK chained dagger off of T Wittmann only becasue I do trust him and finding a REAl NSKK chained is hard! I would say that 70% of my collection has been aquired from vet and vet family members. The best and most reasonable place to find authentic items!

FYI I am 30.

I by no means can't afford the stuff but I would be ranked in the class of a retart if I bought a dagger vs. a car that I really need or schooling that will make me more money. I bought Overpriced thing and I saved to make it less of a shock to the assets but that isn't any fun not being abile to get any new things for a long period of time it makes the hobby get boring just wait for something, I agree your right finding a GO or a chain NSKK from a vet slim chances, but I done well lately with my ad at my church alot of old folks and mostly good people willing to talk to someone who is interested in preserving their history. And recording there experences. I like to feel active in the hobby not stagnet and always waiting. I will happily pay $650 dollars for an SA because they are gonna be worth alot more in a couple year.

I think most daggers are greatley over priced.Maybe I'm stuck in the '80 but when I see SS EM going for $4K + I think buyers are nuts and caught up in a buying frenzy.Just because a book comes out the prices go nuts and guys are paying.Postal Daggers,RLB,IMO are great looking daggers but no one has done a book on them so the price stay the same.Bought a Postal 7-8 yrs ago 2800 today they go for maybe 3400+- and sometimes for the lower #.Now a book on SA is coming out ?? look at the prices going thru the roof on a dagger that was always a starter dagger for the young guys.Dealers are driving the # but so are the buyers.Maybe I'm collecting to long (24 yrs)and things don't impress me to much.

VonRader, I think you are not correct in what Tom Wittmann meant by 2 to 3 GOs per year. I believe he was talking about Eickhorn GOs and not all GOs he sells. Eickhorn GOs are much more rare than those by Alcoso.
I have found several GOs out of the woodwork from veterans, but only two were Eickhorn made. Much fewer than Alcoso.

Ron, Tom stated that he sold 2-3 Go on average per year. He never mentioned specific makers. He also stated they are slow movers. I bet your buddy Tommy Johnson would state the same. I have been on his web sight many times and he still has the same GO for sale. Whats it been 6 months or longer?

When did you find the GO's Ron? Seems like it is getting MUCH harder to locate vet stuff, dam near impossiable to get the rare itmes. I may find 1 or 2 "rare" itmes out of the woodwork per year. 2005 RLB 2nd Officers w/ hangers, SA with a jewlers inscribed scabbard.

The thing about ANY GO or DIPLO is that it is VERY hard to find one with a mint blade or even very close to mint. You can look for years without finding one or one without a premium price.

I would agree with you. Got any for sale? A NM GO is still MUCH cheaper than a NM SS Chained or a officers degen!

GO, mint !

I am somewhat surprised. I never had any problem moving the extra GOs that I had, including the extra Gold Government Officials.
Maybe they are just asking too much.
I do know that Tom Johnson has a great, choice Alcoso GO with hangers and knot forsale right now that will be on his next list, so maybe someone should contact him.
No, I don't have any extras now and it has been about a year and a half since I had one.
Never an extra Eickhorn GO, except the gold one I sold about five years ago.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

GOs and Diplos are expensive but imo easily the most tasteful daggers of the aera and worth their money. They come by, but in best condition they are very rare. The prices are high (not overpriced) but the daggers are on the wishlist of most serious collectors (if they do not own one or more of them already). If the price would be about 2000-3000 USD all would be gone in a minute. So I think it is mostly low budgt of collectors and the will-not-to-pay-so-much of few colletors who have enough money that these daggers sometimes do not move on for some time. I see no reason prices for them should or will go down. Just my personal thoughts.

I do Hotel Buys about once a month, and have been collecting for over 37 years. I have only bought one Government Officials dagger from a vet, which was in Texas about three years ago, i kept it and it is in my collection.
I would say probably 95% of my collection are vet purchased items, but it is getting slower all the time. In fact after so many years of collecting, i sometimes think of selling most of it off and just keep a few items, if i could get the Wittman and Johnson prices i prorbably would.But as i tell my fellow collectors " it has been a good ride" all these years.

Goverment Official daggers by Eickhorn are exponentially rarer than their Alcoso counterpart.

Regarding the price of a Government Official . . . discussions of "overpriced" or "underpriced" are absolutely pointless unless those discussing it share a mutual point of reference. There are two factors that I consider to determine if an item is "overpriced". I consider an item overpriced if it sits unsold on a popular venue for at least 30 days. The suppelementary rule for this maxim is the pricepoint. Generally speaking, the higher the price for the item, the longer I allow an item to sit before I consider it overpriced. Example: an army dagger that sits unsold after 30 days is more likely to be overpriced than a Government Official that sits unsold after 30 days.

Furthermore, an evaluation of price should have nothing to do with the actual "number" on the pricetag, and everything to do with fundamentals - just like a stock. Is it rare (supply)? Do people want it (demand)? Is it a big-ticket item (risk)? If one of these fundamentals is out of whack, you can then intelligently conclude that an item is overpriced or underpriced.

Now, this is what I call a satisfactory answer to the question of overpricing. I don't think there's anyone who would give you an argument on that.

Of course, lots of luck and a sucker always help getting around the supply/demand realities.

All Great points, however ALL stocks that are "deemed overpriced" ALWAYLS have a correction in the market. Case and point the 1990's tech stock bubble. Is there to be a SS dagger bubble?? Its all about peoples perception, feeling out collectors and; what they are willing to pay it what its true value.

As already somebody has said: It´s all relative. I wouldn´t sell my EICKHORN Gov. (see the "DIPLOMATIC DAGGER" thread by "DONITZ3" some lines down her in this forum for 10k or 12k and no dealer would sell it for such a sum. IMO "overpriced" is always something only from the point of view and from the pure personal means.
"overpriced" is such a word like "textbook" and "veteran bought", in reality it/they says/say nothing.

"Overpriced" things only "correct" if demand drops. Take the case of Irrational Exuberance, which I define as a mistaken confidence in the value of a commodity, leading to an increased demand. This can cause a rapid rise in price. However, if enough people come to believe that their confidence is indeed mistaken, demand will drop, which will send prices down.

There are, however, plenty of things that go up in value, and stay there. These things get, and stay, expensive due to a reliable and accurate exuberance about a thing's value or future value. Being able to tell the difference between healthy demand and misplaced demand will help you identify expensive things that are likely to stay expensive.

The demand for SS Daggers, which has caused a steady rise in price over the years, is I believe, a healthy demand. One reason: People know why they like SS daggers, and it makes some sense to me. The demand for Knights Crosses, which has caused a quick "bubble-like" spike in prices, in my opinion, borders on the irrational. Of course, maybe I just don't see what other people see when I look at a Knight's Cross.

This is why I like getting excited about, and collecting, things that are not interesting to other people. Let's face it, Tinnies are interesting, if you start to dig into the history of each Tinnie. I don't collect Tinnies, but I do collect many other things that nobody else really seems to care about. I do it for two reasons. First, I do it because it's a cheaper and easier way to have a great time in my hobby of choice. Second, it's safe. How can the bottom drop out of something (read: how can demand drop out of something) that is already not in much demand? Answer: It can't. Unwanted things don't have far to fall.

I used to have one of the better representative collections of daggers, but I sold those to raise the capital to start my business. Many of the things I sold are worth twice what they were worth when I sold them (like my mint, attributed SS dagger that appears in Wittmann's SS Book), but other things, such as my MINT TeNo Leader dagger, are worth, I would argue, about the same. Or, if you take inflation into account, maybe a little less.

Enough of my ramblings. I'm just very passionate about the philosophy of collecting, and enjoy talking about it.

I too enjoy this topic. I also collect "unpopular" German itmes, like my RLB Officers hat. I collect what I like and can afford, reguardless of popularity. HOWEVER I love the SA daggers and now they are going crazy.. $$$$

Craig, What it take to be come a member of GD? Since I use and contribute to this club I want to join.

Von Rader, I'll answer for Craig.
Premium Memberships. Link to buy membership for GDC

It also gets you a cool tab by your name

some of our older members may remember the raffle we had for a great diplomat dagger, and what a item it was.......man those were the days. by far my most favorite dagger, how many were ever produced and or in collections?
JR
wtf, is there a dagger you dont have? FFH?
great pics, and manfred always has top notch gos, diplos.......i drink to you both!
two more months, and ive been a member for 5 years!

Who won that Paul?

hello adam,
that would be rick turner i think
if you go to raffle link, there is pics of members with prizes!

Hi Paul, Thanks

I wonder what happen to rick he don't post anymore I don't think.

Well I have jumped and bought this "overpriced" gem..........My wife loves me for it...


http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Edged/e111.htm

Rick Turner won that dagger, and he has not posted here in a very long time. He was a really good guy. Anyone know what he's up to now?

No matter if overpriced or not, I appreciate to own them all .
ALCOSO Diplo with proper small portepee, EICKHORN Gov in absolutely mint condition with a lot of frosting portions and ALCOSO Gov with a rare and beautiful original and period looking amber toned grip

Wotan your collection always amazes me. What dagger don't you have more then one of?

Look, primarily I am the "one of all" type (NO, I still don´t have one of ALL ), so there is only ONE gov of EICK, ONE gov of ALC and ONE diplo . But if a another nice comes across.....

That is killer, Wotan !

Great daggers-It's amazing to me that so many daggers remained in Germany after the war when so many were destroyed or taken by the Allied soldiers-It makes one wonder where they were hidden with so many buildings and homes burned or bombed out. Many are in bad shape but many are not---and I don't think we realize how many are in collectors hands since they are still technically against the law and more politically incorrect there than here. How many great collections and pieces are there that we don't see and don't know about? I bet there are a lot--I would like to see them-we all would.

This GO/Dipos have really grown on me. I recall starting collecting around 2001 and I didnt care for them too much.. But I suppose I have evolved and see the graceful lines of it.

As BGRELICS said there are hard to find not in a dealer or serious collector hands.

But exactly that happened the other day. Crusing around the little "throw away" papers and guy had a listing for Rare german dagger..no price.. So I called.

His uncle had brought it back and this EICHORN had never been in a collection. I drove a bit chewed the fat and busted out some hundreds and came home with it.. Dont get me wrong I didnt steal it but no where near what a nice EICK goes for retail..

they are still out there...

Happy Hunting

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Opportunity to collect from vet sources is limited in the UK-some get lucky but compared to our cousins Stateside pickings are slim, and therefore the opportunity to 'Feel' whats correct as opposed to whats 'new' from eastern europe is limited.
Militaria fairs produce results, but never of the quality of merchandise available from the likes of Tom Johnson or Craig, (and Pat and Gary of course- fine guys but not dealers) and for this reason my collection has been built by relying on the judgement and integrity of such individuals. Yes, I guess I have paid top dollar, but i do have what i consider to be some fine specimens in the best of condition, and, perhaps more importantly-I sleep nights.
My thanks -and most of my income! goes to the guys who have kept me on the straight and narrow over several fascinating-tho expensive! years.

Paul

Wotan, would it be possible to get better and detailed pictures of the diplomatic dagger?

That would be very kind!

ostmaerker

I think they are generally overpriced but know of an untouched Eickhorn salty one in the US for $1500 privately. Funny thing is he was offered $300 from a dealer .

mongobongo, just how salty is it? Thanks.

This salty, not sure if it started out gold or silver will be listed for sale on the net direct from seller in next few days. I think Johnson had some original mother of pearl handles would be a nice starter one for someone.