UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum Interesting NSKK numbered Nordmark

Got this from Lakeside Trader. Hes a real SA specialist in my view with great customer care and super fast delivery.

A real interesting piece. E. Pack dagger, ground Rohm SA, later painted NSKK black, bearing the Nordmark serial numbers. Both the black paint job and the grinding were done roughly, but i still find it an extremely interesting piece that tells a story.

exc ++ blade

detail blade

grip

'serial' number 1

Its a palimpsest! .... upon closer inspection... we have here another Nordmark SA that has had a new set of numbers stamped over the old ones, which are still visible under the loupe. Several examples can be seen in the archives.

E. Pack & Sohn logo. Immediately to the left of the E you can see the last bit of the M in Rohm. A rough grind job ..

with the other two numbered Nordmark SA

last

Some nice looking SA's there Gustavo. Well done.

Yeah man, I like the numbered ones. That's a nice bunch!

Mark

Gustavo,

I also noticed that one on E-Bay, I did not bid because of the somehow strange chip/hole in the reverse of the grip (side of the pommel nut).

But when I see your pictures, I believe you made an excellent deal with it, congratulations!

In my opinion, it is a very original and smart idea of you to collect those Nordmarck SA's!

Best greetings,

Herr Mann

Gustavo ,very nice grouping.
Do you have any idea as to what the stamping numbers may mean ?

Gustavo, You do have fine tastes in daggers! Charlie

Slayer

That is the question....

I hope to know soon. I have commissioned a German scholar from the Univ of Berlin, a historian who did his PhD on the SA, to reaseach this issue fully at the Berlin and Nordmark archives, and to write a paper with his findings, copies of relevant docs. etc. Its costing me eur 500, but I think the issue is interesting and significant enough. I will be happy to share the findings in a few weeks. It seems to me the hobby can use the input of rigorous, scholarly, historical and archival research.

Very nice trio.

Hmmm.... we have type collecting by maker mark, could we be looking at a new trend in Gruppe collecting?

Is there a list for these groupings on NSKK or SA's?

Is this what youre looking for?
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=3079

Thanks Gustavo!

So the first number is their area and the second number is their party number? If so, is there a list for the second number?

for example, on my 23/85...Nm marked dagger, the 23 is the Sturm, the 85 is the Standarte. Nm stands for Gruppe Nordmark, and the 29,561... we dont know yet, thought this is being investigated. The HQ of Gruppe Nordmark was in Kiel (Baltic coast), but Standarte 85 (together with the rest of Brigade 15, of which it was a part) was based in Heide. The Sturm and Standarte numbers were always written in arabic numerals, while Sturmbann numbers were written using roman numerals (e.g. staff of sturmbann III, Standarte 62 = III/62). This numbering system was also used on the collar tabs of SA men. see the attached detail of a Gruppe Niedersachsen Reserve SA Ausweis where you see the full breakdown of SA organization from Brigade down to sturm. Hope that helps.

Unfortunately many of the SA personnel records were destroyed... and its very hard to get concrete info at the sturm level, which is the relevant level of detail for the final 5 digit number. Fingers crossed.

Very, very interesting, thanks for the info Gustavo.

I wish it was easy to find out the second number, (29,561...). I guess we'll get there though?

for a while I was convinced that had to be the party membership number (mitgliednummer) because I saw another SA ausweis with the sturm number / standarte number and then the party membership number right next to that, exactly in the same order as stamped on my dagger above. However that would make all these guys extremely early party members (mid twenties probably) and this seems unlikely. Dr. Martin Schuster of Univ of Berlin now tells me SA Gruppe numbered all their members with a local numbering system. That could be it...though the lists with numbers and names associated with the numbers is not extant. I should have his paper on this in few weeks