UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Belts and Buckles Forum Good quality SS fake, or is it...?

I'm sure that many of you are familiar with this buckle which I have been told is probably one of the better quality steel fakes available at the moment. My problem is that a good friend of mine is friends with a well known collector / dealer who has one of these buckles and swears that he has had it for at least 30 years. I want to believe this gentleman but have to wonder if he has made a mistake or if there is some other explanation. I have been informed by one individual that this buckle didn't begin to appear until around 2000. Can someone who "really" knows this buckle clear this up for me?

Cheers, Steve
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Steve, I have one of the same design which I posted here and it was branded a fake, which I anticipated. It's hard to argue with those more knowledgeable than I about these things and I do not maintain these buckles are real. However, upon examining mine closely, it has what appears to be honest age and wear in all the right places. I don't see how such could be faked. The buckle could have been worn by a re-enactor, or otherwise, leading to the condition I describe. The "conventional wisdom" will, no doubt, continue to dictate these are reproductions, but more information as to precisely why they are considered so would be helpful and informative.

Well, I do understand the points that make these buckles different from normal Assman buckles. Like I said, this gentleman swears that he has had this buckle in his possession for a long time. I am trying to confirm or deny that this is possible. Everyone makes mistakes but I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't have this buckle in hand so I can not conduct a close comparison with my own confirmed original 155/43 buckle but I know that there are definately differences. Are these "fake" buckles without a doubt a recent fabrication? I simply don't know. Just so that there is no confusion as to my intent here, I am not trying to prove that these buckles are real, but rather trying to determine if the gentleman in question could have possibly had this buckle in his collection for some 30 odd years. The answer to that question will determine where I go from there.

Mine has the same 155/43 marking. There is one on Manion's Auction now with the same marking, advertised as real (for what it's worth). It would appear most, if not all, are so marked. If all known examples are so marked, it is a clear indication they are indeed fake, or, for some unknown reason, Assman, or a subcontractor, produced a variation in that year only. I am no buckle expert, but, I, too, have been told this is a relatively recent reproduction. I would appreciate hearing particulars of when and from where this type of buckle appeared and what positively defines it as a reproduction.

Yes, I believe they (this style of "fake" buckle)are all marked 155/43. The interesting thing about known original 115/43 buckles is that in that year they were made with a couple of variations in catch styles and paint finishes (various silver/grey and field grey finishes). If there were any year and any maker that would make a variation of buckle it would seem plausible that it would be Assman in 1943. But again, I only mention this because I thought it was an interesting coincidence. Perhaps that's why the faker picked that particular maker and year to copy... I don't know. I hope that someone will remember when they first saw these particular buckles.

Hello, I also have a 155/43 S.S. buckle like the one shown in the pictures.I collect daggers and postcards from the TR but I bought this on a whim 2-3 years ago . It has approx. 30 percent silver/grey paint over steel and shows what to me is lots of honest wear--again I am no buckle expert--I purchased it for $175 from Manions(just read that a few posts ago--hmmmmmmm).See ya, Hugh.

I know that the general consensus is that these buckles are fakes, so someone should have some idea of when they first appeared on the market. That's really all I am asking for here. Anyone?

quote:

Originally posted by Infanteer:
Yes, I believe they (this style of "fake" buckle)are all marked 155/43. The interesting thing about known original 115/43 buckles is that in that year they were made with a couple of variations in catch styles and paint finishes (various silver/grey and field grey finishes). If there were any year and any maker that would make a variation of buckle it would seem plausible that it would be Assman in 1943. But again, I only mention this because I thought it was an interesting coincidence. Perhaps that's why the faker picked that particular maker and year to copy... I don't know. I hope that someone will remember when they first saw these particular buckles.

To say the exact date those fakes were out is going to be difficult. But in the year 2000 they were already widely available in Europe and North America. Their number is constantly increasing with now, unfortunately, a new production marked 155/40 been out (same buckle, same characteristics but marked 155/40 instead of 155/43). In 1995 there was none. So your time frame is between 1995 and 2000, not 30 years ago.

Indeed the Assmann production in 1943 was wide, but some characteristics remained constant for all the production of that year. No matter how different could be the buckle patern or the paint used. The 155/43 and 155/40's reproductions are lacking those...for now.

Gentlemen these are indeed fakes and Manions has been a dumping ground for them this past year. I have three of them bought as one lot. They are supposed to be of US origin from my source Collector Guild

Paul

Okay, thank you very much for your help guys. I believe that these buckles are fake. I think that my friend's accquaintance has simply made a mistake about the buckle but I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. Just goes to show that even well known and trusted dealers can make mistakes. It's important to do your homework and not rely on the reputation of the seller as the determination of whether an item is original or not. You will obviously have a greater chance of getting an original item from a reputable dealer, but it certainly is no guarantee. I see it all the time... "I bought this item from (insert well known dealer) so it must be real..." I think that if someone is serious about collecting that it's only prudent to do the research themselves.
Thanks again.