UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum Portepee question

Could this be a High Ranking Forester Portepee? I have to admit that I never have seen one before and I somehow thought they would only exist in written uniform regulations. But this one is right as rain and due to Houston´s most appreciated, valuabel and helpful guide this one has it to be. Gold bullion straps with two zigzag green stripes. Worn but in nice condition. Am I right?

Yes Wotan your right, a Senior Foresters portepee. Difficult to find.

Gary

Can still be found though

Gary

Gary, I am more the "one of all" type but your assamblance of these rare portepees is quite stunning. At least these middle ones do look imperial?
Thank you for showing.

Wotan, Your right, there are some Imperial ones in there, they are basically the same but sometimes have a larger ball size.

Gary

There are SEVERAL types of the Senior Forestry knot -Imperial, Weimar and Nazi. There are many minor differences in size, ball stuffing, ball material, shape of the ball, color of the stem underlay etc. As you can see by Gary's display-they can be a collection in themselves. You would not think so -but the all green subordinate knot is just as hard -if not harder to find than the senior one-and there are several types here too.

Hey guys, maybe you can help me with this portepee. It came on the sword and looks like hunting assoc. but would like to know more. Leather with silver threads on outside and green in the center. Silver knot with green core. Gary, where do you find such a variety of good items in only one month?
Will also send a couple other pictures. Happy hunting. James

another shot

I noticed the picture did not take, so try again.

couple of more pictures. Notice the nice Hirschfanger hanger with acorns and leaves. Not old, but makes for a great way to display.

Jager, I can't speak to the cutlass, but the knot certainly looks like my Imperial Saxon sword knot. Perhaps the cutlass is Saxon in origin?

The knot is Saxon military-but could have been used on the Hirschfanger. According to your last photo-the hirschfanger on the wall with the oak leaves--the crossguard seems to be on backwards-the guard should curve back to protect the fingers of the hand on the cutting edge side-just like the D or P guard of a sword.

Houston, you never miss anything. I found one more of my daggers the same way. Thanks, James

Houston Coates guide IV. HUNTING/FORESTRY/SHOOTING “KNOTS “


A. AUTHENTIC HUNTING ASSOCIATION PORTEPEES
1) MEMBER PORTEPEES – Silver bullion strap with 2 small zigzag, green lines on each edge, stem with lace covering aluminum foil, basket weave silver bullion slide, green and silver interwoven crown, and silver bullion ball with bottom stuffed with green springy material or a portion of the strap fabric.
2) PROFESSIONAL HUNTER – Same as above but with a dark copper color instead of the green as indicated above. Very Rare.
3) VARIATIONS- There is a variation of each of the above. They have unusual, embroidered stems with a V pattern and silver bullion and green or copper interwoven slides. Purpose unknown but likely a subordinate pattern. There is a third variation of the member’s portepee- It is the same as in 1) above but has green and silver bullion stripes in the ball portion. All of the variations are very rare.
NOTE: In all versions of the above, the green color can vary from light to dark green.

B. AUTHENTIC FORESTRY PORTEPEES

1) CANDIDATE OR JUNIOR SUBORDINATE-All green construction usually of a silk like material, NO slide ( Repros have slides), full embroidered stem ( Repros have lace covering), and with a portion of the strap material at the bottom of the ball.
2) SENIOR PORTEPEES- Thin (in width) silver bullion straps with a medium wide green stripe on each side (Stripe has small sections or squares in the design), copper, silver, or green stem with silver bullion lace covering, silver bullion and green interwoven slide and crown, and silver bullion ball with springy green material as stuffing for the bottom. Beware of examples with wide straps and large ball portions which may also have a felt insert. Sometimes these are called subordinate, but they are not—they are Officer grade.
3) HIGH RANKING FORESTER- Gold bullion straps with two, thin, green zig-zag stripes on each side, gold bullion basket weave slide, and gold ball with green springy material or a portion of the strap material for stuffing. Beware of examples with interwoven green and gold slides and/or with felt inserts and large ball portion size.

Many times, collectors will see the rather common Heer NCO green and silver bayonet knot attached to these daggers. While it could indicate dual membership—and could very well be original to the piece—it is not a hunting or forestry knot.

C. AUTHENTIC SHOOTING ASSOCIATION TRODDELS

1) The correct knot is a basic, all green color KS 98 dress bayonet troddel.

NOTE: If in doubt regarding the authenticity of any cloth item, use a black light. Not 100% accurate, but well worth their modest price.


C. Wetzel-20609 notes: A. 3), "There is a third variation of the member’s portepee- It is the same as in 1) above but has green and silver bullion stripes in the ball portion."
I have seen this knot on Baz69 (Gary's), thread, "Eickhorn 1456".

Many thanks to Houston Coates for his guide, to Baz69 (Gary) and Wotan for posting pictures of these hard-to-find "knots".