UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum 2nd Railway Dagger Info Request Please!

lakesidetrader, sorry this thread got somehow out of my view. Now I see Jim Wallace already has shown the built-in scabbard mouth. I add a pic of this certain scabbard from the side. There are no screws on this kind of scabbard. Reverse does look exactly the same like this obverse.
To your points, I think 1 is correct. 2 is incorrect (imo), I have never seen an aluminium based one with separate throat.
Ad 3, I dont� know for sure, all I have handed were of the leightweight configuration but perhaps there was also a pot metal varation produced?

This is mine. How does it look?

2nd

3rd

Vesuvio, is that magnetic?

Yes, the scabbard is all magnetic. Is it correct?

quote:

Originally posted by wotan:
VonRader, tehre are also to mention the H�RSTER ones which (it is said) don�t have the normal HH logo but the two line written H�rster Solingen along the blade.
IMO the most rare and desirable (because beeing an early one) one is the one from EICKHORN with the aluminium scabbard, silver plated BUT only in best, undented condition. It is narly impossible to find them because the scabbards were too fragile.
Followed by the EICKHORN steel scabbard silver plated.
Naturally with all proper accouterments, at the best a later one with the sqare hangers. There is now one offered for (I think to remember) about 8-9 GTs ......
Just my thoughts.

Wotan and all,

Here's my Eickhorn Bahnschutzpolizei dagger and was wondering if someone could tell me if they thought that the scabbard was the aluminum or steel silver plated type ?
I just can't tell the difference.
Thanks all !

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Patrice, what I can see from your wonderful detailed pics your scabbard sems to be a steel one with aluminium type plating. In earlier times I thought this was the look of plain steel simply brushed, but I have seen daggers where this certain plating has peeled off. As this certain plating does not seem to patinate at any time I do not blieve it is silver plating but as said kind of aluminium plating.
The heavily silver plated rrpp steel scabbards do have a distinct look.

Thank you Wotan for your reply.
Would you know if this type of finish is considered to be early, mid or late period ?
If I'm not mistaken, the late period type only has the throatless scabbard ?

Danke !

My thoughts on the evolution, er, or should I say de-evolution of this dagger is:
Early- Silver with steel based scabbard.
Mid-Period- "Aluminum" plated scabbard, as Wotan suggests. (BTW Wotan I have never seen an aluminum scabbard based RR with a screw securing the throat, so I agree with your reply above.
Late- Finally solid aluminum scabbard with a formed throat.

Vesuvio, I can make no judgement based on what I see. I do not like looking at a single component and making a call. Can we see the whole thing? From the scabbard alone, the finish looks rough, maybe replated, or wire brushed? The original finish was either a brushed aluminum look,(like Pat's) or early silver washed. Compare the scabbard tip to Pat's, your's is far "blunter". What are your liners made of?

Lakeside, I hate to disagree, but due to numbers I have to disagree. I believe the aluminum ones came first and, due to the failure to hold up, the change to the steel scabbard occurred.
Aluminum became the metal of choice in the late 1930s, as is seen in Army, Luftwaffe and NSFK. Then the war caused changes as the metal became essential for the aircraft industry. This is why se see the change back to steel, especially in the army and Luft daggers.
Not every company used aluminum and you never see a late Eickhorn Army that isn't steel or the zinc junk.
What ever was used on the scabbards of the Railways was far superior to any other dagger scabbard finish of the period. IF it had been the first one used, they would have never changed to aluminum.
I also feel that the formed throat piece was much harder to manufacture and this is why it was used for such a short time and changed over the the added throat. Both silver plated, complaints on how these were holding up in the field caused the switch.
Also, the steel scabbards are found in mint condition much more often than the aluminum based ones (in fact I have yet to see a mint aluminum base formed throat piece IMO).
So if these were the later ones, why don't you see them in mint condition and where are the parts?
All the left over parts for these that I have seen over the years were the steel scabbard types (Johnson had some bodies and tips early on).
JMO,
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

I must agree with Ron on this.

I have always had the understanding that the Aluminum scabbard with formed scabbard mouth was the first model produced. Due to problems with using the blade to open the throat, they then changed to the other models.

I was told this years ago but do not have any documentation.

I would like to hear from Wotan on this.

Jim

Really interesting Guys. I'm not stuck in my opinion, rather I'm puttiing some things out there to stimilate some discussion. There is little written on these and much of this is "passed on" by word of mouth. Thanks, learned something today!

I'm really fascinated by the Bahnschutzpolizei organization and I just which that there was a reference book on the subject.
You can't hardly find any pictures on this organization and no english reference books either, which makes the subject almost "mystic".
I believe that it was the smallest paramilitary group during the Third Reich era and that Himmler tried to get it incorporated within the SS organization, which surprisingly enought never succeeded in doing so.
Well, it only proves that were are not at the end of the road yet, as there is still so much more to learn about our hobby, the Bahnshutz being the best example and along with the NAPOLA ( my second favorite organization ).
Can't wait for Ron's book to come out.

To my best knowledge there is question about this, Ron is totally right.

Lakesidetrader, the evolution of the EICKHORN dagger is, concerning the scabbards: 1. aluminium heavy silver plated with formed throat; 2. steel heavily silver plated frosted look (when untouched) with separate throat; 3. steel with brushed aluminium look plating and with separate thoat. The reason for the change from aluminium to steel is like Ron said. The change of plating for sure a question of costs.

BTW you can see exactly the same change of scabbard matrial (aluminium to steel) with the HJleader�s dagger. This certain dagger simply lacks the third variant, that one with the brushed aluminium look.