UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum Eickhorn Trademarks

OK, Just took these! Here they are!







3FL

I know, I know, the Umlauts are wrong! 3FL

But, See what I mean about the Logo and the motto matching?

Thanks for the pics 3FL, that motto is way off Does the blade appear to be real? dimension, billet clamp seams, etc... It'd be interesting to know if they used a real blade for this one, although the tip looks a bit mis-shapen.

Red

Hey Red, I hadn't really noticed it before, in the picture the tip does seem to taper pretty abruptly, Is that what you are seeing? It doesn't really look that bad when you are looking at it "in person". The motto doesn't look bad either except for the umlauts. It may have been a real blank they used. Of course, it is totally bogus now! What really got me going was the use of a VERY obscure trademark! You really WANT it to be good when you see something like that Ultra RARE Eick Trademark, which could blind a Newbie to the other Flaws. 'Know what I mean! Like I said, I bought it mainly for a curiosity! Course, whoever made it may have been counting on that even if somebody noticed the other problems, huh? 3FL

3FL

You know, something I think helps from all this is the fact that Fred's comments about Artur Eickhorn are NOT generally known information. Anybody reading Johnson's book, with no other information, would have had the idea that this trademark was a perfectly acceptable one for Eickhorn! Just incredibly Rare! And, given all the other stuff was OK, I can easily see Hundreds of Dollars being paid for this, even by a long time collector. Thoughts? 3FL

3FL, I remember seeing once somebody�s comment that books were helpful to educate collectors. But that they could also possibly be even more helpful to fakers because they could then create items for collectors wanting the rare and unusual. And some obviously fake items are seen in books past and present along with opinions/misinformation that have no basis in fact but which are presented as facts. On the much larger positive side books are an excellent means to expose collectors to items which they might never or seldom encounter in their collecting careers. And equipped with knowledge collectors can make better choices when making a decision on whether or not to buy something

Having said that in my own time as a GDC participant I can say that I have learned quite a lot. And fakes that in the past might have gotten past me have become more identifiable - for which I am very grateful.

As for the dagger blade itself, if possible, I would like some closeup images of the blade motto on par with this earlier image. In my estimation the RZM etching is much better executed that the �alternate Eickhorn� logo which IMO is not nearly as well done with much less precise borders and something going on at the bottom of the etch that I can�t quite make out. I also think that a closer examination of the tang is probably needed - but it�s too hard to say just what at a distance. FP

I thought I had seen this motto before, the letter form of the cap "M" and "T" are especially bad. I dug through my archives and found a few others which have the high grip eagle and various marks, mostly M7/36, on both M33 and M36 daggers, perhaps early Spainish... pure fake no doubt...

Red

Here's a nicely aged one complete with "combat" wear, probably eBay issue

Thanks for your obsrvations Red Baron! I will try to take some more photos of the motto in a little while! I am going to be at the doctor's for much of this mornning and it may be a little while.

Before this thread fades away, I did want to bring up a few comments about the mark that started this thread. (This one)



I have to agree with Wikinger's comment, but of course, I would like to add a few specifics to make it clear why I agree with his comment. As Beautiful as the blade posted is, I don't like the logo on it! It doesn't look anything like the known Original Logos in my little collection of trademarks! I think the Tail of the squirrel is a bit TOO serrated! Also the Acorn is way too small. Any other comments or refutations? The problems with this logo seem to have been missed by Houston and a couple of others who, I feel, should have noticed and made some kind of remark. 3FL

red Baron, Do you have any idea of the vintage of the mottos you posted pics of? 3FL

For comparison:
1

2

3

4

5

Thanks Dave, Your posting of comparison examples tends to make me think that you have no problems with this logo. I bow to your much greater experience with these. I do wish that Wikinger had added a little more to his comment that would tell us WHY he thought the Logo was bad. On my part, it may be just that I am not used to seeing such pristine examples of it. Thanks again! 3FL

I also now have some better examples to add to my little collection of trademarks! Thanks again! 3FL

Earliest of all SA marks and usually wf stamped crossgaurd. Superb!

Tim ----->>>

Very choice dagger. Dave

Excellent reference information here:
Hopefully we'll be seeing a lot of this type of information in T. Wittmanns new SA book!
Jim

tim lovely dagger. i was led to belive the smooth tail was the earliest,correct me if i am wrong

As far as I know, there is information that says whether the smmoth or serrated tail came first.

Dave

OOPS - meant to say NO Information. Sorry 'bout that.

3finger
That mark is absolutely genuine, as to the time frame Im sure it is early How many of these marks have you encountered first hand to make a statement like that? Just wondering how many Original 3rd Reich daggers do you own / have owned are you a newer collector?

Hi Roy, I was mainly going off of Wikinger's statement. Most of the eicks I have are a little newer vintage or of the back to back squirrel variety, I am not sure whether I have one with that particular squirrel. Like I said before, it is a beautiful blade and maybe I am just not used to seeing one that pristine. Initially the tail just looked a little too sharp to me on the edges. I recanted when Dave posted a couple of comparisons which were more of the condition I am used to looking at!! That one is yours? Gorgeous!

oops!

I really do wish that Wikinger would come back and follow up his statement with some information as to why he thought / thinks it is "bad"! But then that is what I am always frustrated with! People say something is bad but do not say why they think so! 3FL

As to the time frame part of the question, I was asking Red Baron the vintage of the Blade photos of the bogus mottos HE posted. I knew the Eick had to be a very early vintage mainly because of the "CE" marking. I am pretty sure that Eick only used that very early on. 3FL

Thanks Louie,

It is definetly alot harder to find them in this condition as you can figure they were made and sold 7-8 years prior to even the rzm's we see so to find one this special is a real treat. Im still wondering why he made that commet myself??? maybe he was joking around and meaning my tatoo was bad who knows...

Cool Tat! By the way! 3FL

I think some collectors worry about that early Eickhorn mark simply because they don't come up too often, and secondly they do appear on fake blades, I think they were attributed to Attwood, maybe early Reddick. The fakes of the early vintage were extremely well done... also appearing on Rohms, usually in the wrong position, but very well executed. Original marks of this vintage are most desirable, Roys example is beautiful.

The Spanish fakes are mostly from the 70's, although there are so many bad blades now its hard to pinpoint timeframes on them, especially with sellers trying to age them to pass them off as period war trophies.

Red

I think this comparison illustrates the minefield on early Eickhorn logos, there are so many variations which is highly unlikely given the very short timeframe these were produced on SA/SS blades. Some of these are obvious fakes, but others, ???

Red

Remember that in evaluating a trademark, it is not just the mark itself, but the postion on the blade, the motto, the blade itself (dimension, color, tang) and the rest of the dagger. The fakers seldom if ever get it all correct.

Dave

Dave is right on. The blade itself almost always tells the tale on a non presentation blade. Little differences or even major ones just indicate a different template. Why do these differences exist? Who knows? They could make up an interesting collection. If the standard blade is obviously real then-the TM is too-IMO- no one is going to remove the TM from an original and replace it with a fake one. Not at this point anyway--and you could tell-there would be obvious signs of it. Sometimes we worry just a bit too much about these non "textbook" things. Everything IS NOT in books and everything in books IS NOT correct. JMO It's not that easy to just refer to books as final authorities on these matters. If you do ---you often will come to an incorrect conclusion. JMO

Red Baron, Looking at your examples, the one in the red square is obviously the rare special issue "Easter Bunny" Squirrel that was only used on daggers manufactured during the Easter season to commemorate the holiday! Very nice and extremely Rare item, that one is! (The preceding is a JOKE! And, under no circumstances, to be taken as an accurate representation of my opinion!)