UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Imperial German Uniforms, Orders, and Decorations Found my great-grandfather's colored portrait - Help ID Uniform Please

I was at my parent's house last night looking through my mom's old pictures and came across a military portrait of my great-grandfather. This is a pre-WWI photo because it was framed in Hackensack, NJ on 02/05/1914 after my great grandfather had moved to the USA.

I am hoping someone can ID the uniform, service, text, anything at all about this photo. All my mother said was he moved to the US before the war.

Thanks,

Jim

Jim, AWESOME! I also have my Great-Grandfather's military portrait from 1900-1904. Can you see on the photo, what is embroidered on the shoulderboards? The uniform looks Bavarian to me. If you carefully remove the photo from the frame, there's a good chance that you might see the city in where the photo studio was. Many of these that I've seen have the photogapher's studio name and city printed along the bottom edge. Here is an example. My Great-Grandfather, Johann Renner Ist, served in Ingolstadt, where the photographer was from.

Hi Johann,

I will try and get a better image of the shoulder boards. I also noticed he is wearing a sword. How cool would that be if it was the same sword I bought in Iowa (See my Bavarian Officer's sword post).

As for taking it apart, I doubt my mom will let me before she gives it to me, which wont be years! Anyway, it has the paper backing on it, and I dont think I can take it apart unless I rip that.

I do know he was from Hamburg, if that helps. I posted about his stein as well with pics and it is from Hamburg as well.

I will try for better pics next time I am over there.

Jim

I agree. I wouldn't take it apart if it would damage it. You have the stein too? That should provide all of the info regarding his service. Please repost it for us...I also have my Great-Grandfather's reservist stein. VERY rare to still have these pieces still in the family! Do you by chance have his uniform? We still think that my great-grandfather's uniform is tucked away in storage. Here is his stein, (I've posted this before)..

I may have posted it in the wrong section? Anyway, here is the link to the stein post:

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4730971462/m/3120017814

Jim

Your Great-Grandfather's stein, is a very nice period civilian stein, produced if I'm not mistaken, by Marzi & Remy. The logo sometimes had an MR inside of the box.

Johann,

Thanks for all your input on this. It has been very helpful. Any idea what the number stand for? I also posted a pic of a "051" on the upper part of the stein. Any idea on that? What about the wording?

Thanks.

Jim

If you go to the "General Interest" page, there is a beerstein forum. The moderator Roland can be of much more assistance with the stein. The 051, is actually 0.5l meaning half of a liter.

Sauer,

I presume that your great-grandfather served in the Landwehrkommando of the 18. (hessian) Division. Not sure about the brigade. The picture was taken in Allenstein, Prussia, but there was no unit with these yellow-white coloured uniforms. The blue of the tunic is the prussian blue, not bavarian.

Can you show us a better picture of the shoulderstraps with the applicated number/letter?

Regards

Kolibri

I cannot find anything on the Landwehrkommando. I see that Landwehr was a sort of National Guard, or second line unit. Are they basically the same thing?

I will see the picture today and take a closer look at the shoulder boards.

Jim

OK, I took a closer detailed look last night, but it didn;t really divulge any new info.

The number on the boards most likely looks like one of the following:

1X - did regiments ever have letters?
15* (* refers to something else I cannot determine)
19*
The right shoulderboard definitely starts with the number 1... after that, it is a guess.
The left shoulder board seems to end with a straight edged numeral on the right side... 9, 8, 7,4,3,1, or 0 would be my guess.

The boards and number are hand painted, so I guess it depends on the ability of the artist and if he even chose the correct colors.

I did notice that there appears to be some sort of white tassle with light blue knots on the sword.

Does any of this information help?

Jim

Jim,

The numeral designations on the shoulder boards should indicate the Regiment number but if they are Roman numberals they might indicate the Wehrkreis (military district).

I can help you with the Troddel colors. It is a peacetime (white Band and Quaste) enlisted man's Troddel that indicates your GGF was in the 4th Company of the 1st Battalion of his regiment. Now you just need to figure out the specific regiment and the uniform colors (if they are correct) might help you with that.

George

Well , I looked in my "Uniformen der Alten Armee " book by Waldorf-Astoria , since I had the feeling that the Yellow 'BRANDENBURG " vertical cuff was something special . It showed only one unit that had these per color picture #254 this is for the "Infantrie -Regt.Nr.150--Allenstein--Muskatier(Rifleman)im Ausgehanzug ( Going out dress uniform )". I noted throughout the book that other units that have the same vertical cuffs have them in a red color. The above noted #254 color picture is on a page that has at the top :"XX Armeekorps-Ost.u.West Prussia ".--SOO --, your Great-Grandfather served in that unit at Allenstein in Prussia ! Regards, Bernd Ostermann. By-the-way ,my Great -Grandfather served in the Guarde-Pioneers in Berlin for 10 years ,took part in 2 wars 1866 and 1870/71 , and made it up to the highest EM rank of Vize-Feldwebel, also got the EK 2nd 1870. I got his military Passport.

I answered you on your stein on the other posted site. Regards, Bernd.

Jim, sorry that I posted my GGf's stuff, I didn't mean to Hi-jak your thread. It's exciting to me, when I hear that people still have family hierlooms as yours. Have you searched through ellisisland.com, for the year and ship that he came here on? It's very interesting reading. They needed to know somebody in the US, who was their sponsor. It also will show the birthplace, birthdate, and hometown. They also needed to have a certain amount of money for boarding the ship. They also give you background on the ship. Very interesting stuff...You can actually see the ship's manifest, and it will show your GGF's signature. They ALL had to sign the manifest...

http://www.elisisland.com/eflp.php?pid=40282&D=33674&C=...and&K2=elis%20island

Johann,

Don't be silly. Where did you hijack the thread! You all have given great information to me! I love this stuff. I will check out the ellis island link and ask my mom if she has any info on the dates. I will let you know.

Doug... WOW! Thanks for the big time break through on the regiment! Any chance you can scan and post or email me the image and unit info? As for my GGF, he immigrated to the US before WWI, so no battle stories I'm affraid. I believe he was a carpenter in the US.

This is great! I am a police officer and will be going for the detective's position this summer... I love this kind of stuff, especially when you get a break and some great info!

Jim

Jim,

yes, the 150 th Infantry was located in Allenstein. But their yellow vertical cuff was light blue piped and also the shoulder straps were light blue, not white. If the old colour has bleached out from light blue to white, why not the blue of the knot?

I was wrong, when I presumed, that your GGF was a member of the Landwehrkdo. of the 18,.th Division., because these guys had the vertical yellow cuff, but it was not piped.

May be, Doug is right with the 150th. Infantry. It is not impossible, that the picture was later coloured and with a wrong colour for piping and straps.

Regards Kolibri

Crap, so where does this leave me?

Is everyone 100% sure that no regiment had these exact color combinations?

Is it possible that it is a police or fire uniform and not military? I don't think he was but you never know. What about a reservist uniform?

I was pretty excited that we found out the answer, now I'm not sure again.

Doug, anyway you could post that pic or email it to me?

Thanks guys for the continued help.

Jim

Here now some photos of the picture in my uniform book . To me it is certain that your Great- Grandfather served in this unit .The light blue color of the shoulderboard just has " bleached out " over time . Regards , Bernd .

..AND close-up .

2nd close-up shot I took - -same result . You actual can make out the small light-blue piping around the vertical yellow " Brandenburg " cuff !

It is really incredible how this Forum (and the Internet) are helping collectors understand what they have or are about to buy.

15 years ago it would have taken months to get this far in identifying that uniform - if it was identified at all.

It is also incredible how guys will share their knowledge and help others. Keep it up !!

Dave

I have to agree. This forum, and others, are an excellent source of information, help, and a great way to learn. Thank you all for your current and future help.

Dave,
I have to say that I agree with you. Looking at the picture, it seems to be the same uniform to me. If I look close at my GGF pic at at the top of this page, it even seems that the yellow cuffs may have that piping around them. I'll have to inspect the original photo at my mom's house. As for the white shoulder boards, unless another unit comes up with that, I'd have to say this is it. You did say that the yellow cuffs were a one of a kind thing for Prussian units.

Has anyone translated what the entire saying is at the top of the photo?

Thanks again to everyone!

Jim

Bernd,

Excellent information for Jim's GGF. Good work!

Jim,

It seems that this is certainly your GGF's regiment. The photograph has "In rememberance of Allenstein!" at the top of it. So, he served in the 4th Co. of the 1st Bn. of the 150th Infantry Regiment at Allenstein. Bernd has come up with your answer.

George

That is great, beyond my expectation to be able to even find out the company and battalion!

George - What is the actual text of the caption "In rememberance of Allenstein"? I can't make out all the old German writing and when I tried to translate it from English to German it gave it as: "Im rememberance von Allenstein".

I guess the next step is to let everyone know I am in the market for any militaria for this regiment! Shoulder boards, swords, uniforms, etc...

Thank you to everyone, this forum is awesome!

Jim

Oh, one other thing. Does anyone have any historical information regarding this regiment? Famous members/leaders, battles, were they still the 150th during WWII, what are they now?

Thanks,

Jim

Jim,

I am a retired police Master Sergeant myself, so I understand the true joys of deductive reasoning. Good luck on your Detective test.

The motto "Zur Erinnerung an Allenstein!" loses something in translation. It is a common rememberance motto that commemorates service in a military unit. In this case, the Allenstein Regiment. You will often see this form on etched bayonet blades.

George

I had an idea... I am in the process of writing the US Govt for records pertaining to my grandfather's US NAVY service. Since I now know my great-grandfather's Prussian regiment and city and approximate time period, is there a German entity that I could write to or request documents or something of that nature? I seem to recall that you can write for WWII documentation, not sure if anyone knows if this extends back to Imperial Germany?

Any help would be greatly apprecaited.

Also, I have searched all over for anything pertaining to he 150th Regiment and just find it mentioned here and there but nothing solid. Can anyone recommend a book or source that may be able to give me information such as commanders, famous battles/leaders, where they were stationed, what they became in the German Army, etc?

Thanks,

Jim