UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Belts and Buckles Forum black leather belt,original,ss?

Is this belt an original ww2 german belt?has some markings hard to make out,any info appreciated!

belt

faint markings

Yes, an original wartime produced belt..the numbers you see are RBnr's or Reichs betriebnummers, used as an identifier for makers starting in 1943

Thanks Doug I appereciate it!

yes it is a belt used since 1942... at this year the RBNr. were introduced.

this belts were used by all formations including Waffen-ss

ss stamped belts (RZM) are only known until 1940.
at this time until 1945 the waffen-ss used belts like the WH or the WL.

the buckles were made under rzm contracts until 1943. since 1943 the rzm were no longer responsible vor waffen-ss contrakts.

Wow great info,thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by gardist2003:
...ss stamped belts (RZM) are only known until 1940..

Hello,

I have to disagree with such statement : so far combat belts originally marked RZM 134/41 SS and SS 1325/43 RZM are known.

Best

Ric

quote:

Originally posted by gardist2003:
ss stamped belts (RZM) are only known until 1940.
at this time until 1945 the waffen-ss used belts like the WH or the WL.

the buckles were made under rzm contracts until 1943. since 1943 the rzm were no longer responsible vor waffen-ss contrakts.

Wrong. Since spring 1943 the RZM started to do no longer supply several goods to the SS which were in turn liable to find their own supplier. Leather belts and buckles are supposed to have been part of this order but no official documentation has been found as of today. Anyhow this order was enforced and final only by late fall 1944.
In the meantime, Overhoff and Assmann supplied SS buckles to the SS through the RZM during 1943 and 1944. Those SS buckles are marked 155/43 (for Assmann) and/or 36/43 and 36/44 (for Overhoff). If what I heard recently is correct, there is also a very last batch of Overhoff SS buckles which were marked 36/45. I still need to see one of those 36/45 but at least 36/44's are no longer a mystery.
For leather belts, Ric is indeed correct since several marked belts are known past 1940. The latest known to date is indeed 1325/43. This maker supplied mostly the RZM with marked SS belts for officers, and did so in 1943 with at least two distinct orders from the RZM.

leather equipment was ONLY stamped till 1940.

after this date ss gets leather gear with normale maker stamps. or do you know any ORIGINAL RZM marks on leather gear??

quote:

Originally posted by gardist2003:
leather equipment was ONLY stamped till 1940

As previousely said, this is 100% wrong!

quote:

or do you know any ORIGINAL RZM marks on leather gear??

No need to post all previous markings between 1940 and 1943 since only the latest date is our concern. So here is the most common marking for leather goods produced for the SS throught the RZM in 1943.

thisn is a obviosly faked stamp. in germany there is no disscusion ony more. NO original stamed Belt or gear is marked after 1940.
This stamp is well known. A lot of Frog had been stamed (sometimes overstamped a older maker stamp) with this faked rzm stamp.

NO original belt or frog is rzm staped after 1940.

1942/43 the rzm was no longer responsible for the waffen-ss. this funktion since 1942743 had the "SS wirtschafts und Verwaltungshauptamt"

quote:

Originally posted by gardist2003:
thisn is a obviosly faked stamp. in germany there is no disscusion ony more. NO original stamed Belt or gear is marked after 1940.
This stamp is well known. A lot of Frog had been stamed (sometimes overstamped a older maker stamp) with this faked rzm stamp.

NO original belt or frog is rzm staped after 1940.

1942/43 the rzm was no longer responsible for the waffen-ss. this funktion since 1942743 had the "SS wirtschafts und Verwaltungshauptamt"

Hello,

that marking is 100 % original and period applied and I have to repeat what already said :
you are 100 % wrong and of course everyone else is thinking like you, it does not matter if German or not.

Best

Ric

quote:

Originally posted by gardist2003:
thisn is a obviosly faked stamp

It is true that lately some reproductions of this stamp have appeared on the market. Same with reproductions of the 134.40 marking or the 68/37 marking. But those 3 markings are "reproductions" markings, not fake markings. They were reproduced because they did exist and many original are still found today. Of course, like with any reproduction, there is very distinct differences between the originals and the reproduced ones. If one collector does not know those differences, he/she would be much better off buying any of them. But saying they are ALL fake just because such difference is unknown, it is absolutely a wrong attitude!

quote:

in germany there is no disscusion ony more. NO original stamed Belt or gear is marked after 1940.

Please do not include ALL Germans! None of the leading researchers in Germany I am in contact with is sharing this eroneous idea! As leather belts are concerned, you can safely say their number had decreased a lot but it is absolutely wrong to say NO.

quote:

This stamp is well known.

Of course it is. Read again my above comment

quote:

A lot of Frog had been stamed (sometimes overstamped a older maker stamp) with this faked rzm stamp.

Could well be since the reproduced stamp is out and I do not pay great interest to bayonet frogs. I am talking about SS leather belts, not anything/everything in leather the Germans could have produced.

quote:

NO original belt or frog is rzm staped after 1940.

WRONG!! Like it is WRONG to say that there is no marked SS Buckles after 1943! Like it is WRONG to say the first SS Buckles were introduced by 1927!
There is absolutely no shame to do not know everything and to remain silent in such case but it is absolutely evil to promote erroneous
statements!

quote:

1942/43 the rzm was no longer responsible for the waffen-ss. this funktion since 1942743 had the "SS wirtschafts und Verwaltungshauptamt"

So who did order the following SS buckle?

quote:

1942/43 the rzm was no longer responsible for the waffen-ss. this funktion since 1942743 had the "SS wirtschafts und Verwaltungshauptamt"

So who did order the following SS buckle?

quote:

1942/43 the rzm was no longer responsible for the waffen-ss. this funktion since 1942743 had the "SS wirtschafts und Verwaltungshauptamt"

So who did order the following SS buckle? Marking is obvious ...