UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Medals & Badges of the Third Reich Forum Fake Ostvolkers?

Maker's mark is on the underside of the pin.

1st class silver with swords.

Back of 1st class

Again maker marked on the underside of pin.

Unmarked 1st class silver with swords.

This one has a different style on hinge, catch and pin.

The only cased one I have a gold 1st class without swords. The printing on the lid also shows it's without swords.

Close-up

Case opened.

Front;

Back;

Well, so far what I'm seeing from these photos here and elsewhere, the 'no ropes' seem to all have flat backs..
Truthfully, for years if I saw a no rope and/or flat back I wouldn't give it a 2nd look. Always thought they were fakes. I've had a bunch of these, now down to just a few representative pieces and the all of them from the original recipients. And,the all of them are rope, dished back.. But after seeing the Dohle drawings, and seeing the no rope design on the 1st class box tops as well as the LDO info and examples like these shown here I'm a believer in the no ropes now....

They could be a early [?] run as the Dohle drawings are 43,,not sure on a date of the LDO doc or even if its period!

*Raymond,,are they the same size? Do they measure the same - sword tip to sword tip, West to East?

Gaspare, the 2nd classes all measure 25mm sword tip to tip. the 1st classes measure 31mm.

Just a hypothesis, Rudolf Wachtler & Lange could have sourced the medals from other manufacturers and completed them in shop.
Thus the different styles.

The initial dies could have become damaged?

Some power that be, decided that they liked ropes better thus the die change and the old stock issued until it was used up?

Food for thought.

--dj--Joe

Raymond, once again I must commend you on the photos and thank you for the time and effort involved.

Regards,--dj--Joe

Ray, thanks for the measurements,,they are spot on with others and whats listed in references.

That Dohl book shot is [if I'm correct] from the colorized 1943 edition. Wasn't there a first addition,earlyer?, all examples shown in B&W? anyone have that? What is the publication year? are these awards in it?

I feel this to be an informative thread and deserving of more review.

--dj--Joe

hey guys,,,Just going over a few photos and noticed something.. Looking really hard at this photo it sure looks like Kaminski is wearing a 'no rope' badge!! How does it look to you guys?

I can't tell.

--dj--Joe

pop to the top.

--dj--Joe

Thought to bring this around one more time to see if anyone has new images or info.

--dj--Joe

Link to a post with a silver medal and two envelopes.
https://forum.germandaggers.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=130944

Joe these used to be plentiful. You could find them at any show in any grade... BUT, as Foreign Volunteer stuff started drying up so did these medals. Last years MAx there was maybe 3 or 5 that I could see.
I've always have liked them..

They like everything else have been reproduced and done pretty well. Mine either went out with the tide or sold them. Last one was a couple years ago. It had one of the 'variant' ribbons on it.. A dealer asked how much I wanted for it. I said a crazy price not really caring if it sold because of the variant ribbon. He said I'll take it very fast. Guess I was too low.. But thats ok, I had my time to enjoy it...

Somewhere there is a nice period chart showing them all , the various grades , ribbons etc. It would be great to have on here. I'll take a look in my old files..


- * saw on this topic , page 2 the color chart from Dr.Kleitmans book..... - But there is another [no color] that is out there that is better............

In the GDC Reference Library, "3rd Reich Awards and Medals" section, "3rd Reich Orders and Medals" gallery, "Awards for Foreign Volunteers" within the gallery. All classes and variant ribbons are shown.