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Guys, Check it out. Another late Alcoso commercial with bread bag frog: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6595823834Got to be at least a dozen of these observed by now. I am certainly convinced that there is something to this ...... My thoughts only - Lance O. Adams ....
"Optimism is true moral courage" Sir Ernest H. Shackleton
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Hello Lance, nice piece on the link, my friend in Czechia have got a AWS piece with similar frog from an old depot, any of older guys mentioned that all items in depot were destined for HJ. Probably the late bbf were a part of commercial contract for Alcoso bayonets on end of 1944? maybe a reserve for last units made from HJ or older man members or for Volksturm? best regards,Andy
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Andy and lance you can never find them without the frog rivet pulled through on the back 
BCN Founder
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John, This means it is original  Keith
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What does the terminology "Commercial" mean, Is it just that they were marked for sales at military supplie outlets durn the third reich era. I've been collecting for 9 yrs. And I guess it one of thoughs questions I've felt stupid asking, but I guess I don't mine chancing the embarrassment
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Adam, “Commercial” means that they were not made under the direction of the Heereswaffenamt (German Army). Having no inspection/acceptance marks (Waffenamts), dates, serial numbers (etc.) as seen on otherwise identical German military issue combat bayonets.
Similar early bayonets for the German Police and other paramilitary organizations are well documented, and IMO the German police would be an excellent candidate as the organization that ordered these “mid war” examples. Or at the very least the bulk of them.
Based on much earlier BCN discussions the “Bread Bag” frogs seem to have originated in Southern Germany and could have come from the KZ’s, although that has not been proven. And very possibly the frogs are 1945 vintage (IMO), being mated to the bayonets at the end of the war for issue to Wehrmacht, Volksturm, HJ or anyone able to stand on their own two feet attempting to defend the Reich in its last days. Regards, FP
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Response from grandsport9
Item: WW2 Alcosa, German Bayonet,W/Tropical H.M. Luft. Frog (6595823834)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
grandsport9 is the seller.
Brown leather is traditionally Luftwaffe or some police, Black leather is traditionally Army or SS.. Luftwaffe had a large presence in Italy and Greece where the tropical green was worn by them. I am not 100% positive that is luft but I am 95% positive that it is..
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Makes total sence now. I do remember commerical P08's and P38 that were supposible from police officers of the third reich and such, cool thanks for the reply Fred.
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I probably need to shoot some new pictures. But aside from that, while I don’t disagree that the Luftwaffe used a lot of tropical gear in Italy, Greece, or Southern Europe, I think that “grandsport9” is confusing some different factors. There are some late webbing/leather tropical frogs which I think very likely could have some Luftwaffe provenance - but as can be seen they are not ‘Breadbag’ frogs. And while Luftwaffe (and Police) leather frogs can be brown. I have unit marked brown German Army frogs. And some late Luftwaffe ones which are black, with all of the ones in the image below “LBA” marked except for the blue tropical example on the end.
Breadbags are scarce and very desirable late frogs. But as was pointed out not very durable. With pulled rivets and torn stitching/pockets/backpieces etc. all too common - although intact ones are seen. The idea of one surviving the long campaigns in Italy or Greece (etc.)??? Not very likely, with them IMO being the German equivalent to the “last ditch” ersatz German and japanese items made at the end of the war. FP
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quote: Originally posted by Fred Prinz (aka "Frogprince"):
I probably need to shoot some new pictures. But aside from that, while I don’t disagree that the Luftwaffe used a lot of tropical gear in Italy, Greece, or Southern Europe, I think that “grandsport9” is confusing some different factors. There are some late webbing/leather tropical frogs which I think very likely could have some Luftwaffe provenance - but as can be seen they are not ‘Breadbag’ frogs. And while Luftwaffe (and Police) leather frogs can be brown. I have unit marked brown German Army frogs. And some late Luftwaffe ones which are black, with all of the ones in the image below “LBA” marked except for the blue tropical example on the end.
Breadbags are scarce and very desirable late frogs. But as was pointed out not very durable. With pulled rivets and torn stitching/pockets/backpieces etc. all too common - although intact ones are seen. The idea of one surviving the long campaigns in Italy or Greece (etc.)??? Not very likely, with them IMO being the German equivalent to the “last ditch” ersatz German and japanese items made at the end of the war. FP
I should of elaborated some more, but DO NOT AGREE with the guy listing the bayonet. No way in h*&& those frogs were used by the luftwaffe.
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John, I know that you yourself personally know that the frogs were not Luftwaffe being very well experienced in 98K's and the frogs. But was trying to point out in general that oftentimes sellers might have legitimate items - but sometimes don’t have a clue as to what they really are. Best Regards, FP
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John:
I hate to take umbrage at your description of the "breadbag" frog, "...you can never find them without the frog rivet pulled through on the back".
Now I realize that you are jesting...AND, you are quite correct in that almost 98% of all "breadbags" have one or ALL of the rivets missing or "hanging by a thread" (pun intended)...
But, both Frog Prinz and I have at least one or more "breadbags" that are [rivet complete].
I will admit that they are scarce, but not impossible to find.
As a matter of fact, I believe you sold one to Freddy or me at the SOS show a coupla years back when you were "culling" your frog collection...AND, at a very reasonable price indeed!
Thanks,
Jack
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Jack if I had one that did not have the rivets pulled thru, it probablly took 10 with a rivet pulled thru to find one not...hey glad u still have the bbf and are enjoying it! You did get first pick on that monster frog collection. wonder if i will ever rebuild such a collection? probablly wont happen since it gets tougher to find items 
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