UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Police Uniforms Forum Brothers reunited .

I just got this in mint condition Schutzpolizei EM winter fur cap . The interior in the top has a 2-line ink box stamp with RB.Nr.0/1200/0747 and in the lower line Nr.56 and 1944. Posted by Bernd.

Front .

Interior mark.

Now to the "Brother " of this cap . In 1980 I got a Wasserschutzpolizei Officer's winter fur cap in similar mint condition that sports on the interior a 3 line ink box stamp with the SAME RB.Nr.0/1200/0747 manufacturer's number and Nr.58 and 1944 in the next 2 lines. Below this box stamp is a round ink cancel with the Nazi eagle and the lettering of "Ortsstelle-Wasserschutz Polizei ".

Front view.

..and here the interior ink stamps .

Here the brothers reunited !

..And a side view.

Front view with ear flaps down.

..and backsides.

Close-up of the Wasserschutz-Polizei Officer's gilt eagle.

Close-up of the Schutzpolizei EM eagle. Note the 2 string lines to help hold it in-place.

Better shot to show the 2 string lines .

I hope you enjoyed these photos of these "Brothers reunited " . Regards, Bernd.

Bernd,great winter fur hats.I saw a nice HEER one at the Allentown show yesterday but nothing compared to these.Now I see where Doug gets his collecting skill from.thanks for showing us.

Bernd,

Two very nice fur caps. Collectors forget that the Wasserschutzpolizei also wore green uniforms. I have a WSP Soldbuch that shows the policeman in a standard green tunic in his identification photo in the front.

George

Raymond and George: Thanks for your kind remarks . George could you please post your Soldbuch?? Bernd.

George, would you want to elaborate on green uniforms for the Water Police? Are we talking M43 combat tunics with yellow base shoulder boards? What about the collar tabs? Sounds interesting.

Here is a Wasserschutzpolizei Soldbuch for Hermann Eickhof. Notice the Soldbuch number matches the ID number on the photograph. Eickhof is wearing a standard green police uniform and the photo is overstamped with WSP Abschnitt Kommando C cancells.

George

A couple of interesting things about the soldbuch. The Soldbuch is dated 1944 and indicates that Eickhof is from Hamburg. It lists his awards as the EKII and the Hanseatenkreuz but he clearly wears the WWI Combat Service award on his uniform as well. There is no clothing issue shown for Eickhof and I can't tell what the collar tab backing is from the photo, nor is the sleeve eagle visible.

But, here is a photo of a WSP Reserve Wm in a green uniform. Perhaps he also had one of Bernd's fuzzy caps as well?

George

Hi george,
going in further into the WSP with green uniform question started by JWotka I notice the following:

The man in your soldbuch has the following rank:
Wm. d. Sch. d. Res.

ie.
Wachtmeister der Schutzpolizei der Reserve.

Allthought the soldbuch was stamped with a WSP stamp I do not think this would indicate that the individual was a member of the WSP.

Also the Major that authorized the soldbuch (page 2, your second scan) is a Major in the Schutzpolizei.

I therefor would opt that this guy in fact is a member of the Schupo, maybe employed at a WSP office. Other possibility is that simply the authority that issued the soldbuchs was based at a WSP-office.

Could the above be a plausible explanation?

Ernst,

You bring up an interesting point. I assumed that Eickhof was a Reserve WSP Wachmeister because of the Dienststempelen and the "SW-Abschn.Kdo.C" Pol. Einheit stamp for the issuing officer who is shown as a "Major d. Sch" on page 2. The book seems to indicate that the Schutzpolizei Major is signing under the authority of the Schutzpolizei Wasser Abschnitt Kdo. C. is he not? There are few entries and only lists his duty assignment as "Pol. Verw. Hamburg" so that is not very helpful.

I have seen photos of WSP formations that include both policemen dressed in the blue double breasted uniform and the standard green uniform. But are those green clad folks assigned to the WSP and wearing the uniform of the day for guard duty or fatigue or whatever? Or, are they regular green Schupo on a tempory duty assignment or visiting or what?

All are good questions.

George

George, this guy must have been the bottom of the barrel-a 51 year old police reservist, and a former lanlord/innkeeper to boot. With no experience, I would think he would have been confined to shore service. Ernst, his title was Wm. d. Schupo Reserve, but his Erkennungsmarke designated him as W.Schp.P. Hbg. Perhaps the Major who signed the Soldbuch was in fact the commander of the SW unit C. After all, the SW was under control of the Schupo.

I don't care for document stamps on items of clothing.

Here is a picture I recently picked up, I would presume form the colour of the garments in wear that this is a summer police mottled green jacket worn by wasserschutzpolizei.

Gary,

I couldn't resist.......here is the eagle for the green WSP jacket.

Regards,
Bill Unland

Interesting photo Gary. Seeing as the group on the left is KM, could the group on the right be MKP wearing some type of summer weight tunic? Some are wearing shoulder boards and some aren't. Same with collar tabs.

Joe

I would definately say wasserschutzpolizei, here is another picture from the same group, this time a white summer jacket as well as the green and a blue.

I wonder if the white jacket has a yellow eagle on white? or if an officer a gold on white, now that would be a rare bird to find.

Why Gary? Aren't the uniforms MKP too? And it would be more probable to find Kriegsmarine men associating with MKP men rather than men of a Wasserschutzpolizei unit.

Dear Joe,

Perhaps my concept of the "Marine Costal Police" is totally wrong. Because of that armband that shows up occassionally I was of the impression that they did not have a uniform, or were military or other civil service personnel who wore the armband to designate temporart assignment.

I thought that they were a kind of auxiliary police, perhaps volunteer coast watcher types under the authority of the WSP.

That said, and assuming that they did have a uniform, which would make the armband unnecessary,why would it be more common to find navy personnel with the coastal police? Who administered the coastal police?

Honest questions here, I know NOTHING about the coastal police other than their armband

Regards,
Bill Unland

The MKP was the Kriegsmarine equivalent of the Feldgendarmerie. And like the latter, during wartime the MKP initially drew a cadre from the Ordnungspolizei. Members of the Wasserschutzpolizei were seconded to service in the KM as the MKP initially wearing their Wasserschutzpolizei uniforms until new regulations were issued by the KM. And like the Feldgendarmerie under authority of the Heer, the MKP was controlled by local KM. I will drag out "Unser Marinen Uniformen" (excuse the title as I am forgetful) and try to show a photo.

As an aside, I have never liked those armbands. Except for the Osprey series, I can't recall a legitimate reference to them.

Bill, it was Zienert's book "Unsere Marineuniformen". The MKP was created in early 1940 from units of WS-Flotilla West. WS uniforms were continued until MKP/KM uniforms were introduced by naval decree in November 1941. They did have both brown and grey lightweight tunics. If there is a date on your photo Gary, to direct the discussion?

And I was in error on the Osprey book on military police. It did not picture the armband you mention. They only drew the proper cuff title. So I can't recall any reference to the armband though they are often sold as original.

Dear Joe,

Thanks for the reply. How did the uniforms differ? You mention a brown and green jacket (which I assume were navy uniforms as I have seen them with navy insignia), where the insignia otherwise the same as the WSP with the addition of a cufftitle? If part of yhe navy why would they continue to wear WSP caps as in the photo?

Yes the armbands often offerred for sale look like junk, I agree with you on that aspect.

Regards,
W.Unland

I am sorry that I didn't clarify the uniform situation. Until the naval decree of November 1941, the MKP men continued to wear their Wasserschutzpolizei uniforms and headgear similar to the Feldgendarmerie continuing to wear mot.Gendarmerie uniforms until the introduction of Heer Feldgendarmerie uniforms. Zienert wrote that the MKP had both the grey and brown KM uniforms. I presume that was after the change-over.

What I was trying to point out was that we really don't know to what unit the men in that picture belonged. We can't see the insignia on the odd color tunics and perhaps they began using KM clothing while still wearing the Water Police clothing? But it seems logical to see association of MKP with KM uniformed men, rather than Water Police men with the KM men.

Gary,

Can you tell in the original photos if the white jackets and/or green jackets have pleats in the lower hip pockets like KM jackets or none like Pol jackets? My computer is not clear enough to see.

Neat photos BTW.

George

Dear Joe,

Firstly I apologize to Doug for getting off topic.

Thanks again. This is all very informative.
Assuming these guys are Coastal Police rather than WSP, any speculation re: how the eagle I show might have been used.

It's obviously on "police" summer cotton, not navy tan or brown/green so must be WSP. Do you know if they had a green "summer" weight uniform authorized? This goes back to the original topic of green WSP uniforms and caps, and where/how they might have been worn.

Oh by the way, did you receive my e-mail for your son?

Best regards,
Bill Unland

George,

Here is a blow up of the photo.
The two guys on the left seem to have pleats on the lower pockets like a naval uniform. The guy on the right does not look like his coat has pleats like a police coat.

More confusing is the guy in the center with police-like collar tabs, and NO shoulder boards or buttons for any.

I will say that these look like the navy type brown or green summer uniform rather than police mottled green. These guys all look like nco's rather than officers.

VERY strange combination of uniforms.

Regards,
Bill Unland

Here is a photo of the color of the navy "brown" uniform. Cant find a photo of the green version at present.

Thanks Bill, better detail than I could get. Yep, the tunic on the right is police cut as the collar tabs are Pol (not KM) on the second guy. Some later police tunics had pleated lower pockets, so I would say they are all police tunics on these guys. They have folded the collars back and I have seen photos of this phenomenon before with Polizei guys with six button tunics. The guy on the left has no shoulder boards either but again I have photos of this being done, particularly with summer weight Pol tunics like these.

It could well be these are the green/brown speckled summer tunics rather than the flat one-color green ones. The really interesting thing is they are wearing this tunic with the blue cap and trousers. Joe, is this in any regulations (either Pol or KM) that you know of???

These are certainly not KM issue tunics whoever these guys are.

George

The uniforms in the photgraph of Gary are, as I believe, regulation WSP uniforms.

They are called "Hausrock f�r Wasserschutzpolizei"

They are described in detail in the Pol.-Bekleidungsvorschrift.

Cloth is Sommerfahranzugstoff, Schilffarbig which is the same as the Sommerfahrrock that george has showed us.

Regulations prescribe that all 4 pockets have pleats...so also the lower pockets and that a sleeve eagle was worn, along with the other regulatory insignia for WSP

It is mentioned in the regulations that the Hausrock was to be worn in training-excersises and on boats if it was extremely hot.

PS. Joe and Bill, I believe a photo with the Marine-K�stenpolizei cufftitle in wear can be seen in the book on cufftitles (forgot the authors name)

hopes this helps

to ad on the MKP cufftitle,

That picture shows a man in KM-uniform (visorcap with KM insignia, KM shoulderboards) and with Polizei sleeve eagle. He is wearing what seems to be the MKP cufftitle