UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Police Uniforms Forum Feldgendarmerie/Feldjagerkorps gorgets

Hi,
I am new to this site. I have collected german helmets for 20 years and have recently turned my interest towards police items, particulary gorgets; however, I haven't been able to find/get a whole lot info about them. I have a Feldgendarmerie gorget and recently had an opportunity to compare it to a Feldjagerkorps gorget which was purchased from the Collector's Guild. There are several distinct differnces: The Feldgendarmerie gorget is all magnetic, the Feldjager plate a chain are, but the buttons, scroll and eagle are not. The edging on the Feldgendarmerie is much more pronounced and even throughout than the Feldjager. The eagles are different from one another. The silver finish on the Feldgendarmerie is more flat. The Feldgendarmerie measures 6 3/8" X 3" and the Feldjager 6 7/16" X 3". Both seem to weigh the same and feel heavy, especially the chains. The Feldgendarmerie chain has 42 links and is constructed the same as the Feldjager chain, which has 41 links. The back of the Feldgendarmerie gorget is paper and has a vertical center tang, the Feldjager backing is felt with an angled center tang. There are no markings on either piece. Both glow yellow/green, with the Feldjager having a much stronger glow. Are these good pieces? Are the deminsions and construction correct? How many different mfgs were there? Does anyone know of any "good" reference materials regarding gorgets. Thanks, RLI

3rd photo:

4th photo:

5th photo:

This is actually the 5th photo, sorry, but this is my first time.

6th photo:

7th and last photo:

Hi RLI and welcome to the forum: Your gorget appears to be exactly the same as the one I have on this police display to the left in the picture.
Jim

Hi Jim,
Its hard to tell, but is yours the Feldgendarmerie or Feldjagerkorps? Actually, I feel pretty good about the Feldgendarmerie gorget that I own, but am unsure of the Feldjagerkorps gorget. Thanks. RLI

Sorry RLI
Mine is a Feldgendarmie. I can take closeups if necessary but I assure you it's identical to yours right down to the backing.
Jim

Hi,

I have a feldjaegerkorps gorget which is identical to yours, and mine is a guaranteed fake (I bought it to plug a hole until I can find a real one!). I will attempt to take some decent pictures for reference.

I'm not saying yours is a fake, however!

The feldgendarmerie is text book but I do believe that the feldjagar is fake.

I agree with Gary. Here is a scan of the obverse of mine. All parts are magnetic.

The only "reference" on gorget that I know of is Dieter and Odegard's book "Gorgets of the Third Reich". You might try a book service as it is OOP. But still it only provides an identification and general description with photos of a variety of III Reich gorgets. I do not know of any reference discussing manufacturers and techniques.

And here is a photo of the reverse. Notice the small marking on the center prong.

Also notice that the prong on the fake goes in the wrong direction, and the paint is the wrong colour, notice that the on the fake the colour is more of a green hue to the yellowbut on the original it is a cream colour

Hi Gary, Jim, David and JWOtka
Thanks for the responses. Studying gorgets is much more difficult than I imagined. I have the book by Dieter, and although a good reference for the varying types of gorgets used by the 3rd Reich, it doesn't give much in the way of detailed information regarding construction and differing styles by the various mfgs. For instance, I have several Army helmets painted feldgrau, however there are varying shades, as with the blue/gray paint on many of my Luftwaffe helmets. I wouldn't discount a particular Army or Luft helmet just by the color of a helmet. Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting Gary's comment, and I'm not trying to justify the gorget. In fact, as I stated earlier, my gut feeling is that this gorget isn't right, not when I compare it to the construction of the Feldgendarmerie gorget. What really made me think about this gorget is when I saw five Feldgendarmerie gorgets at the Allentown, PA show the other week and all five were constructed just like this Feldjager gorget, except that a few had a vertical center tang. Furthermore, one of the dealers had more that one and his reputation here on the east coast isn't the best. I'm just curious, have any of you ever seen what you believe to be an original gorget that has an eagle styled the way this one is on the Feldjager? Or have the eagles that you have seen on original gorgets been styled like the one on my Feldgendarmerie and JWotka's Feldjager? There distinct differences such as the head shape and wreath, and the color. Thanks again, RLI.

You picked a field of interest that is woefully undocumented. I have not seen enough Heer Feldjagerkorps gorgets to make any comparison. From historical considerations, it should be a seldom seen piece. From what I have been told, these are being reproduced in quantity by sources in the Czech Republic. The provenance of my example only extends to the dealer (Ferman Michel) from who I purchased it at one of the last Max Shows in Baltimore and his source, a vet blanket purchase from his home area.

RLI you have to remember that these eagles and dots on the gorgets are painted with radio active material and all should have a dull appearance and all should be this colour yellow, and in most circumstances should still give off a glow in the dark, the feldjager has a shiny appearance and the wrong type of yellow, just one other clue.

RLI:
Your best bet IMO would be to get in touch with Joe Pankowski who is very knowledgeable in this area and had an extensive gorget collection at one time. As an alternative you could bring it to the MAX as Joe is usually there.
Jim

I have posted several photos of my feldgendarmerie gorget i recently purchased. The back matches your fieldkorp gorget which worries me if it is believed to be a repo.
Bruce

The angled center prong is definately a big red flag with ANY gorget. They just were not worn that way. You have to watch for bent ones where they try correct that flaw as well. I was just at Joey P. house and he was telling someone that very same thing on the phone. He is really the defacto gorget guy. (There was a chainless SS standard bearers gorget on the table I was oogling) If you are going to collect them, get to know him. But He's old school, no computer, no website, just a head jammed full of knowledge. and be prepared to get put "on hold" about 50 times durring your conversation...

The first gorget pictured is okay, but the second is indeed a fake, it also comes with the "Feldgendarmerie" scroll. Study the details and you will be armed so that you will not get fooled.

Hopefully the fakers will not fix the mistakes as it will make things a little harder.

J

ps J Wotka...fantastic original!!

Bruce/Jerry/John T
Okay, first I contacted Joe Pankowski (by the way, thanks Jim M) and it was his opinion that the Feldjager I posted was a repro from eastern europe. Aside from the angle of the center tang, he pointed out that the glue on the back of the gorget holding the cloth should be dark, since it was horse glue that the Germans used. When I pealed the cloth back a little bit I could definitely see that the glue used on my Feldjager gorget was semi clear and white in color. I also had two other well known "high-end" dealers look at it and they both were of the opinion that the feldjager was a repro.

I then contacted Peter Whammond at the Collector's Guild. He took the gorget back and had others examine it and determined that it was a high quality repro. I am also happy to add that Peter was a stand-up guy and refunded me my money plus shipping.

For the last year and a half, I have been looking at gorgets at the shows here in the PA area. All of the gorgets I have seen are exactly like the feldjager I had posted, except that they are all feldgendarmerie gorgets, which John T correctly pointed out in his comments. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, one of these dealers at the Allentown, PA show, who always has about three, is an individual that you would not want to buy from. In addition, I have seen these same feldjager gorgets listed on Manions, which speaks volumes for me.

Bruce, I don't know what to tell you. I looked at your posting and see that the opinions vary, which seems to be the standard in this hobby. The sad fact is that there is no good reference material on this subject. I have "Gorgets of the Third Reich," which is a good reference for the varying types, but nothing in terms of construction. However, there is no eagle pictured in that book that resembles the feldjager eagle on the gorget I posted. I've tried to verify if any original eagles looked like this, because there is a distinct difference between that eagle and the one on my feldgendarmerie, but I can't get a confirmation one way or the other. I will say that of all the original examples I have seen, both feldgendarmerie and feldjagerkorps gorgets, none of them were styled like the one on the feldjager I posted. All of the originals were styled like the one on my feldgendarmerie. I really don't know if this means anything or not, but what I do know is that I don't like to collect stuff that I am not 100% sure about. So, I pretty much gave up on the idea of collecting gorgets. There is just too little info for me, and there just aren't that many knowlegeable collectors out there who I can see in person and pick their brain to educate myself. Consequently, I've decided to stick with what I know, not a 100% though, which is helmets.

RLI:
I please to hear you were able to get to the bottom of this with Joes help. IMO He has forgotten more about gorgets than the rest of us collectively know. I agree that this is one area that could use a serious treatise before it gets buried in more eastern European fakes.
Jim

Unfortunately, all the real Gorget experts are not on line. I know of three to include Joe Pankowski that are true experts in this field.
I am in the process of compiling information and may do my next book on gorgets, depending on how the NPEA revision goes.
Unfortunately, I don't know if there is enough interest in the gorget field to do a book on it alone. The one book on the market is horribly out of date and not good enough to tell you anything about the real ones verses the fakes of today.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Robert,

Don't give up so easily. The trick is get to a show like the SOS or Max and handle some unquestionably real examples (Joey P, Brian Maderer, Neil H. & Steve W., etc. ) Get a feel for them, also look at some of the junk ones around. Compare. Of course on the web pages they all look good, they were designed to. "The devil is in the details" as they say.

There are really not that many different gorgets, and unlike the unending variables encountered in helmets,and daggers, once you can get the 25-30 some gorgets availible, that collection is done. (which is a down side of collecting them, I had a friend that "bottomed out" as he could no longer find gorgets that he neeeded - so he stared collecting tinnies!) Gorgets are an impressive an unique german accoutrament, and athough they have gotten expensive a decent collection of them can still be had out there.

I couldn't agree more with what "Mr Jerry" stated above. In regards to a book I think you are on safe ground interest wise whenever "cross collecting" is involved:

Not only is there a core interest in gorgets themselves but there is an interest in their acquisition for display with other items from that particular group or as dressing on a uniform display. Hence the term "cross collecting" interest.
Jim