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#184537 09/10/2008 02:08 PM
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Years ago I bought a 'standard' (19th century)Brittish navy midshipmansdagger, includig the original dirk knot. (in enclosed pic - the top one)
Some years later I found and bought) a second version of this dirk (the lower one in the picture). The dirks are practically identical (also the markings and etchings on the blade), however the latter
- is about 10 cm shorter and
- the shell on the crossguard with the anchor misses (and as far as I can judge - has never been there)
- it doesn't have a 'lock' on the scabbard.

It is clear to see that there has not been tampered with an 'original dagger' (would show on scabberd and blade etchings) - it is obviously originally made like this and as far as I can judge: this is no replica - it is in parts, material and in 'look and feel' identical to his big brother. By the way - as yet I have never heard of imitations in this specific type of dagger.

I cant find any info on this specific dirk. Is it an earlier / later version? Has it anything to do with the militairy rank of the owner?

In short does anyone knows more about this dagger?

R

voorbeelden_005.jpg (41.36 KB, 263 downloads)
two midshipmans dirks
#184538 09/10/2008 09:02 PM
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It is my understanding that these daggers were not a requirement of rank by the RN but were bought as accessories by individuals so there is no standard pattern and some of the daggers are more ellaborate than others.
Here is a poor pic of mine.

It is marked as Hobson, does yours have a makers name?

PICT0028-2.JPG (62.31 KB, 240 downloads)

Simon J Lawrence
#184539 09/10/2008 11:19 PM
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Hello >>Dagga >>>>very nice display can you show us the rest of it please. Very curious to see what else is on this display >>>
regards
Aleksandr


ALWAYS BUYING ITALIAN/ FASCIST MILITARIA > AND SOVIET DAGGERS
#184540 09/11/2008 07:50 AM
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Hello, Alexandr
Of course I will (with pleasure) show you part of my collection.
In this overview pic you see three displays

v3.JPG (33.73 KB, 210 downloads)
#184541 09/11/2008 07:52 AM
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The first one are dress daggers in general

vl2.JPG (50.74 KB, 209 downloads)
#184542 09/11/2008 07:53 AM
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The second one are (practically all) 3rd Reich daggers (also some Italian fascist daggers included)

vm7.JPG (41.63 KB, 209 downloads)
#184543 09/11/2008 07:58 AM
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And the 3rd one are "ethnografic" daggers (some quite old). Not really dress daggers, however often belonging to a specific regional historic costume.

If you want some more detailed pics, just ask and I will take and post some

vr4.JPG (40.76 KB, 206 downloads)
#184544 09/11/2008 08:08 AM
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O, and by the way the small dagger is marked "Walton outfitter - Gosport" (the latter beeing a touwn very near Portmouth), the large one "Matthews & Compagny - Outifiiers Portsmouth".
so my former statement that both daggers are identical marked seems in hindsight not to be quite correct.

#184545 09/11/2008 01:37 PM
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These are beautiful displays that reflect a true collector.

Thank you for sharing.

On the midshipman's dirks in general. These are a good example of the transition in the mid 1800's from swords to short swords (daggers/dirks) because of the close quarters on the wooden ships. If everyone was running around with swords, they were always bumping into each other.

It is my understanding that while the short swords were authorized for wear by everyone, the officers rejected the shorter sword and it became known as the "midshipman's" sword.

As to the short version you have. I do not have any specific knowledge. but, if you are certain the blade has not ben shortened, then I say this is a personal choice.

Or, maybe an extremely short midshipman? Big Grin

Jim

#184546 09/11/2008 02:08 PM
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Thanks for the general background info on the transition from sword to dagger in navy. Sounds very logical.

Rob

#184547 09/11/2008 09:56 PM
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Hey Rob well nice collection you have there. thats a display to be proud of
Sean


Regards Sean
#184548 09/11/2008 11:08 PM
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WOW>>>>really outstanding display and collection
congrats
regards
Aleksandr


ALWAYS BUYING ITALIAN/ FASCIST MILITARIA > AND SOVIET DAGGERS
#184549 09/11/2008 11:59 PM
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Doesn't his display make you want to run our and buy a bunch of those cabinets?

#184550 09/12/2008 11:28 AM
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Very nice display but I prefer a little bit of mess in displaying as you can see on one part of my dress daggers collection.
Tobi

b.jpg (92.62 KB, 159 downloads)
#184551 09/12/2008 11:57 AM
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Impressive collection - Congratz

#184552 09/12/2008 01:47 PM
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Beautiful collection of some impressive non german daggers.

It does my heart good to see these collections.

#184553 09/12/2008 10:00 PM
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WOW tobi: thats a very cool wall Eek


Regards Sean
#184554 09/13/2008 12:05 PM
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Hi
For better attribution of the dirk, you should make a better photo, perhaps like this dirk from my collection

DSC05373c.jpg (81.89 KB, 139 downloads)
#184555 09/17/2008 06:21 PM
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I believe that there were no definite regulations on the dimensions of these dirks, and it depended on the manufacturer or the one who placed an order.

Great collections guys.

#184556 09/17/2008 07:46 PM
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Hi Tobi,
Extraordinary and impressive collection.
Tobi ,on the right corner down of your display there is a dagger looks like Bulgarian Royal Orchestra dirk.Can you share with us please?

#184557 09/19/2008 06:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by pesho:
Hi Tobi,
Extraordinary and impressive collection.
Tobi ,on the right corner down of your display there is a dagger looks like Bulgarian Royal Orchestra dirk.Can you share with us please?

Hi,
Hereis the photo of Bulgarian Royal Orchestra dirk

DSC05399x.jpg (103.03 KB, 101 downloads)
#184558 09/22/2008 06:52 PM
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Hi Tobi
Thanky very much that you share with us your beautiful Bulgarian Royal dirk


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