UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Rohm Dagger Forum Blondie full rohm price?

I have been badgering someone I know to part with the most lovely Eickhorn full rohm with a lovely "blondie" grip. I have seen it and handled it and it is 100% I dont have any pics though.

It is really nice and all as it should be with a lovely Patina. It is one of those things you just want to buy even if you end up paying top dollar for it.

Anyhows what is a nice full rohm Eickhorn worth? If I can get it I will post some pictures of it.

Forgot to mention it is an SA not an SS

$5500 to $6000

Gailen David

I didn't think an SS would have blonde grip.

Gailen David

LOL Ok I will take a kick for the thickest post of the day and will go and dye my hair blonde to match the handle!

Any other opinions on price?

It all depends on condition but here are the prices that I've seen lately.

E $ 5000
E+ $ 5500
E++ $ 6000
E++/NM $ 6500
NM $ 7000

These are prices that I have accounter on major dealer's web sites for the last few months.

Mint............just give me a call.

Yes these are really nice!

2

That is absolutely lovely

That is a nice piece.

An Eickhorn Röhm SA with a "blonde" grip??? That sounds most unusual to me...

Is it a large or a small makersmark and which one?

Is there a benchmark?

I can only suggest to post pictures before spending this amound of dollars.

Best greetings,

Herman

Sorry another one I looked at with him was an eick the Full Rohm was EPS

2

3

4

5

6

I know these pictures are not the best as I took them on my camera phone. The blade has remains of what looks like old grease on it.

On the tang it has the number 5 on it and a latin or roman numeral V in a circle.

I am paying for this tonight so quick input appreciated.

My Pack ground Rohm has a plain tang and the trademark is positioned 15 mm from the lower crossguard the dagger you show looks to have the trademark farther away from the crossguard
Is the hammerhead solid or void theres a good thread started by Houston Coates on Pack trademarks on Rohm daggers on this forum
Be careful I would hold off buying it until some of our Rohm experts have chimed in

Ok I will not part with my cash just yet, I will however see if i can get some better pictures etc.

My EP&S Rohm wont come apart (dont think it ever has been !! but agree with AJ on the
maker mark at 15mm from lower crossguard.
This is a favorite maker seemingly for the
spurious etch.Sharper pic please will be to your benefit.

mongobongo,

Are you certain that the grip is a 'blondie' or simply over cleaned/scrubbed?

Respectfully,

John

Here are some better pics, I have it on approval for seven days to satisfy myself it is correct. The makers mark is 14MM from the crossguard.

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

The dedication, moto and makers mark all have the same burnishing. The pictures dont really pick it up because of the light but I can take some more if needed.

Well, It's hard with images to really make an opinion. On this blade, I would have to examine it more closely before making a decision, if you get my drift.

Gailen David

I really think some better pictures are needed. For the others to make an opinion.

Cheers here are more pictures in different light.

20

21

The grip looks typical Pack light brown
and fittings same.Got my upper guard off with same caster marking.Can,t get the rest off
and wont try.But the clincher is the etch.
Like Gailen says,I think you should try
pics square on to the etch and Pack mark
for a better appreciation.Sorry to bug you but
would be worth it for broader opinion.JMO.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

24

25

Have one of those cup cakes to go with my coffee!!!
Seiler

26

27

28

last

Very strong etch but looks fine by me and both sides seem to match in depth and color.
I think you have a good one that looks in great condition.JMO.
Thanks for all pics.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

I hope those are better, apparantly over the years it has changed hands a few times in collecting circles in the UK, I am buying it privately. Quite a few of the dealers have inspected it first hand and said it is OK apparantly Harvey gave it the thumbs up as well a few years ago, but I cant ask him now!. The owner seems 100% genuine and on the level I spoke to one of this daggers previous owners on the phone tonight who also said it is 100% right.

But me being a cynical git who trusts no one thought I would let a lot more cynical gits have a look at it

Well if Harv was OK with it,its OK.
He was seldom wrong.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

Mongo,

The dagger is a fine, typical Pack SA with a beautyful red grip.

For the writing of the inscription, I would ask Gailen and/or Pat if it is correct.

Personaly I have never seen such a deep Röhm inscription. If the makersmark would be as deep, would it still be readable? Can you image if this blade would have the inscription ground: what would have been left of the blade?

One other thing: the blade appears to be stronly cleaned around the inscription, I can see no crossgrain (could be the pictures) only many scratches... but the inscription has kept all of its darkness?

These are just a few thoughs.. not to say this dagger is no good. But it is at least a very uncommon full Röhm...

Best greetings,

Herman

I hate getting envolved with this stuff, by that I mean authenticating on line. But here is my two cents worth. Just remember my opinion is no better then anyone elses.

I do not like the inscription. There are a lot of differences between this and originals by this maker. I'll put it this way. if the piece were offered to me I would not be interested.

Gailen David

Thanks for that, I have just measured the iscription front and rear where possible with a micrometer and they both appear to be 0.1 MM deep and are both the same to the touch. Out of my 30 SAs I do have several of the earlier ones that tend to be a bit deeper.

The runner mark scratches,do run over parts of the dedication front and rear but only the far edges. Both inscriptions are deep but you can see where some burnishing has worn off in a few places with a magnifying glass outside of the centre band.

Gailen please can you post some pictures as an example

Sorry, no I can't. But you should be able to compare the inscription to other original examples posted. There are lot of style differences. You should easily spot these differences when you compare to some that are shown. Rememeber this a facsimle and not open major differences. There are some who disagree.

Gailen

Cross grain evident, its the camera/light. Same as the burnishing it comes and goes depending on the angle and the light. Not a lot I can do about that but believe me its nice and even I am happy with that.

If your happy we're happy. That's all that counts. Congradulations.

Gailen David

Mongo,

You should give serious consideration to what Gailen David is saying.

He is the only person I trust 100% as concerns these inscriptions. That is my 2p worth.

Dave

Amen brother, Amen......

Gailen is the premier and final word on this subject.

I also would agree with Gailen...

Mark

The problem is he is not here to hold it in his hand. I have looked and looked at the inscription and cant find anything wrong with it.

So can someome please point out what differences before a good piece potentially gets junked.

last pics 1

last 2

last 3

last 4

last 5

last 6

last 7

last 8

last 10

As you can see the dedication on the front has bairly been scratched out by the runner marks as well. Both dedications are reasonably deep but consistent with each other.

But you can see areas (last 5) bottom of the second word where deeper runner marks have removed some of the burnishing.

The KISS of Death???
For the money they fetch,better to
pass and wait for another than the doubt.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

Im gonna get a "hands on opinion" on it from a major collector I know well.

lets look on the bright side, it is entirerly possible yours is real and all the others I've seen are not. Who knows?

Gailen David

Now THAT is funny!

I've been waiting for better photos of the dedication before commenting. But I quess this is the best we are going to get so here goes...
I've never seen one like that and if I did I would not want it in my collection.
I have doubts on the originality of the dedication and if original the blade has been polished to a "non-collection" grade IMO.

And if Gailen doesn't like it...that's all you need to know and not worry about it..just send it back.

-serge-

I am really fed up now, people e-mail me telling me that certain people are wrong and not to listen to them, saying that unless they own it nothing is ever right. Others then jump on the wagon and before you know it you have something ****e!!.

People who have checked it here in the UK say it is right, others phone me to tell me its wrong.

I really dont know any more. Who the hell knows for sure??? God only knows now..

I am getting so sick of this hobby I am seriously thinking about selling everything I own and buying "star wars" figures or something else like that.

Whatever this piece is right, wrong, or indifferent it is probably the end of my collecting WW2 daggers. As things are at the moment I will never buy another piece and probably sell all the ones I have.

I sickens me to get in between such *****ing on and off the net.

The only way to avoid this is not put anything on the forum for people to see and then ask for an opinion. There is always going to be someone who does not like what your showing. You live in England, so show it to local knowledgeable collector/dealers over there and form your own opinon. You've got some good guys over there.

Just remember you asked for opinions.

Gailen David

That inscription does seem to be abnormally, "thick", but the rest of the dagger seems to have the correct EP&S attributes for a Rohm

Is it possible that it is real and somebody for some reason has gone over the etch again or does that just sound ridiculous?

Mongo
Dont get disheartened , take the opinions offered and make your own mind up,ive only been collecting a short time, but realise that you must listen to people who have been collecting for a long time, if YOU like it have it, all the best steve

Not the best photo in the world with my shaky hands but here's a section of my partial EP&S Rohm for comparison...

C'mon, mate, one questionable dagger and quitting the hobby for 'star wars figurines'? Where is your gameness? Go ahead, this should be the right hobby for you. Easy come, easy go.

Mongo, last year I asked expert opinion on a dagger, got the OK & subsequently got burned in a big way. Unfortunately I didn`t find out for many months! I felt like that was the end for me at that time. I cooled off and didn`t do anything hasty. Now I still enjoy the hobby but I stick to what I know. I think that any collector who is honest will admit they have made mistakes & you have to roll with the punches or get out. If in doubt about any piece then best to stay away from it than lose big money on the say so of others.

Was the OP not given an inspection period?

If there is doubt, why not return it, and move forward instead of the drastic step of selling off his collection and leaving the hobby?

Surely EP & S are one of the more common makers of Rohms, and a more 'textbook' example can be found if one is desired..

Kursk if you look in the For Sale forum you will see that Mongo has sold most of his daggers in less than a day a fantastic result but hopefully one he wont regret
He thought he had a 7 day inspection period but when he tried to return the Rohm the seller reneged on the return policy prompting Mongo into becoming one of the most successful vendor of TR daggers ever seen bet some of the big boys dont shift that volume or value in under a day

I think dealers who do NOT honor their published guarantee's should be named so we know who they are. It's a "short" list but includes a well known few guys.

Mark

Whats that tell you on the return policy?

Gailen David

I agree, that particular dealer should be NAMED, for the good of collecting community.

I thought this forum was about helping people to not make mistakes, if naming a dealer does that, so be it.

Nolan

I never said it was a dealer this is what happened.

A week or two ago someone e-mailed then called me asking for two scabbard screws and a pommel nut for an SA. I had a long chat with him on the phone and he seemed nice enough, lived fairly local and seemed really interested in an opinion in an SS he was buying supposidly for his father.

He calls me again to say that he is in a wheel chair and asks if I could pop out to see him as travelling was a problem. I went round there and sure enough he was clearly disabled and we sat at a table in his dining room. He shows me some piece of crap SS dagger that has a real blade and one real crossguard. He said he was about to buy it for £1,000 and asked me what if anything was wrong with it. I explained it was more repro than real and told him not to buy it.

He said he had an NSKK that I could look at that he had traded some stuff for some years before. I took it off the wal and it was an early ground Rohm (maybe) in a vertical hanger The handle was right, the crossguards were later ones and the scabbard was later. I told him and he seemed very surprised.

We chatted a bit more I gave him the scabbard screws and pomel nut he needed for free and he asked if I could hang the NSKK back on the wall. As he pointed to where it hung up I noticed an SS in a cupboard with a bag. He said oh you can look at that and I took it out the case. Now as you know I have quite a few SS daggers and there was nothing wrong with it. He said take it apart and have a look if you like. The pomel nut was hand tight I took it to bits and all looked good, It was a fully ground rohm and fine. We talked about it for a bit longer and he said I have another nice one for you to look at before you go. He told me where it was and I grabbed it, it was the Pack full Rohm.

I took it out the scabbard and remarked how nice it was. He explained that with changes in UK gun laws he had traded two something or others for it that the guy had sold for £4400. He said it was not for sale but "you never know". Before I left he asked if he could buy an old SA off me to try and put early fittings on the ground rohm he had.

I said if I was passing I would pop in and let him have a look at it although I was not sure if I wanted to break it or sell it as it was untidy but honest.

A week later I get a call telling me that he knows someone who bought an SS Full rohm from the US a few years back that was selling it for £8,500. I explained that I might be interested in it but would need provinence and a good second opinion before I would go and part with that kind of money. He said that was fine as it was 100%. Also asked me if he could look a that salty SA I had for bits and said how he enjoyed meeting me last time.

I popped round there with the SA and a few nice other bits to just show him as he was interested in what certain daggers supposidly looked like. He also said that over the years quite a few people had been trying to get the full rohm off of him. He also said that he was now wanting another SS sword as there were three or four there. He then said he would be prepaired to sell the full rohm and Eick SS for the right money for the sword. We discussed it and I said provided I could get the full rohm checked out I was happy paying £5200 for the pair plus two SA daggers he wanted.

He asked me if I could use the two SA daggers parts to make his parts SS and his ground part rohm more original for him as he was hoffified to hear from me that they were wrong. So I agreed on the understanding that he knew they would just still be parts daggers and would not be correct etc. He told me he would just hang them back on the wall to replace the two I would buy from him. I took his two daggers home stripped these two SAs down and it took me thirteen hours to make as good a job as possible on them.

I took some pics of that full rohm on my mobile that night and posted them here on the forum. A few people made comments and someone e-mailed me to tell me it was right and nice etc. Still being scepticle I told him I was not interested in paying for it until I had it verified and checked out. He told me I could have seven days to do that, but as he does not know where I live he would need the money up front. Clearly being severely disabled the guy was not going anywhere and to be honest I trusted him. I asked for his bank details and he told me that cash would be preferable as the chap he was buying the SS sword from wanted cash providing I was happy.

I was a bit unhappy about that so he said speak to "kevin" he dials the phone and puts it on speaker. The voice on the end of the phone told me he used to own the full rohm, not being funny I must be silly not to know it was right. I said a few people on a forum I use had a few reservations but the pics were bad. He told me had a few people look at it when he owned it including Harvy and said it was great. He then asked what forum and laughed saying most of them on there are "armchair collectors and know nothing" or something similar. After a bit more of the same I handed the money over and took the two daggers confirming the seven day thing, and gave him his two repaired ones that he was really pleased with. After a few comments on here I asked for my money back, he told me he had spent it the next day.

I have been on the phone several times asking for my money back and he point blank refuses. He says today that It is clearly my fault and I have no proof its wrong etc etc. I said I would take him to court, he said im disabled you know that I am not even going to be able to get there..

I said I would take it back to him and he could give me two SS swords he has until he gets my money back and he refused then saying its my fault etc etc and that I ruined his two daggers by repairing them.

I tell him bluntly that I am the victim here, we agreed on a 7 day period. I gave him £5200 plus two SAs and spent 13 hours working on his others for him.

IMO I have been targeted, he is a front man that it will proove difficult to get into court. That being said out of principal I will just keep going with it even if I loose because the moneys a big hit but the principal is the stab to the heart.

Keep your eyes out for an RZM SS with a nice blade but with N/S scabbard fittings and X/Gs. It has the Gau mark OST on the X/G. Also a ground partial Rohm from anyone in England.

That's terrible! I really feel for you. These type of crooks are everywhere these days. You just don't know who to trust? If you keep collecting in time your gains will far exceed your loses. This is a story I have heard many times. We lose some really good guys over this type of crap.

Gailen David

Sad tale..
Now..here is what i would do if i were you..
Ring up a reputable soliciter, get an opinion.Keep that in your back pocket.A first time consult should not cost you a thing, and will be cheap insurance.

Second, i would contact Gailen David, and offer to pay him to have it inspected in hand so that the authenticity can be determined yes or no.Armed with this information, you can set a course of action.

If it is bad, you can produce informed evidence in small claims court.

That is the civil way..in my old days, i would have marched right over and relieved the gent of goods with equiv. value..

This man had no intention of honouring any agreement and i would say all bets are off..do whatever you feel you have to do (within legal boundaries..) to recoup your losses..

Sorry to see this happen to you Mongo.

It does sound like you were targeted. A slick con-job with a "cripple" used as a front..perhaps.

As Gailen said we have seen this before. Collectors have always been targeted by the swindlers be it Art, Antiques or anything of value.

I have seen the "For Sale" section. Most of the
fine daggers you have bought recently and shown on this forum. I may be wrong but it appears that you may have lost money also on the sale in the haste of getting it all behind you.
I did that exact same thing back in the 1970's.

Hope you get some satisfaction from the legal system. At least make them hire a lawyer!

Best of Luck.
-serge-

I hate to say it but I smelled a rat in the first two paragraphs of your post! To bad their's no more Ty Cobb!