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What do you guys think?

I just found this on a forum. It would be my first uniform and my most expensive purchase. I have a few medals from the US and a few German items like a coin, k98, few dummy bullets and stripper clips.

Is this too expensive? Is it too much of a huge by for me?

I still like the Infantry Oberfeldwebel Reg. 41, and the Infantry Feldwebel, Reg. 16 more than Artillery. I haven't seen those around and I'm afraid they might be out of my price range.

Also, I'm trying to find out what the insignia on the arm is. Anyone know it offhand?


"Arty Waffenrock in nice condition. Has Stuttgart tailor tag. Collar liner present. Has a period repair to lower portion of liner and some minor stains to the inside. Inside belt has been removed. Appears to be Regimental marked in lower inside linning. Was purchased from Detlev N several years ago and comes with a certif of authent. from him. $800.00 USD. Plus shipping and Paypal fees if needed."









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Your photos aren't showing up. If the uniform is original and in good condition $800 is a good price.

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That's weird. They show up for me.

I'm not too sure. I'm going to sit on it for a little while. I hardly know anything about Waffenrocks.


I'm looking for a tunic with a tresse on the collar and cuffs and a aiguillete. I could add the aiguillete later on I suppose. I want it all on an Infantry Waffenrock.

To put an aiguillete on a Waffenrock does it have to be a Lieutenant?

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That's weird. They show up for me.

Here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-6.jpg


I'm not too sure. I'm going to sit on it for a little while. I hardly know anything about Waffenrocks. I think I might take this though. It has everything, but it's in the color red...

I'm looking for a tunic with a tresse on the collar and cuffs and a aiguillete. I could add the aiguillete later on I suppose. I want it all on an Infantry Waffenrock. That's all I want... An infantry Waffenrock to get me started.

Can someone tell me if this is Original??

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Thanks for the links to the photos. Looks like a nice original Artillery waffenrock. The aiguillete is worn by officers only. With an enlisted waffenrock you could use the shooting landyard in the same place. The rank on this one is for a Oberfeldwebel and has a Specialist patch on the sleave for a "motor maintenance sergeant".
Have you picked up the book on Waffenrocks yet? If not you should, it's a great book.

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Unfortunately it's gone. It's ok though. I didn't really like the bright red, nor did I want artillery.

Now I'm frustrated :P.

I really like the aiguillete. Maybe I should wait till I come across an Infantry Waffenrock that has one?

This is probably an obvious question, but do only officers wear Peaked Visor caps? I want to match a Waffenrock to a cap.

Yes, I do have the book.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291372

Here's another listing.


I really appreciate your help. It's hard to find people I can talk to who can guide me a little and answer my many questions.

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Enlisted men also wore visor caps. There are some differences, the most obvious being the silver colored chin cords on the officer types. Enlisted chin straps consisted of a leather band with adjustment buckles. Ask questions here and wherever else like minded people get together. Use caution as there are as many fakes as there are good stuff out there. There are knowledgable people here.


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http://www.jssmilitaria.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=1247&Filter=German+Militaria

So this would NOT be appropriate for a non NCO waffenrock?

How do you tell if a Waffenrock is an NCO.

I know, I know, I should read my book on it. Wink

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This cap is the kind you need for matching up with an Infantry enlisted tunic, including a Waffenrock. This is the service cap, sometimes referred to by collectors as a visor cap.

NCOs wore silver or matt tress around their shoulder straps and their collars, with certain exceptions. Rank will be determined by the shoulder straps (term for enlisted) or boards (term for officers). Army tunics will have rank on the shoulders. Branch coloring, or Waffenfarben, are determined on the strap/board edges and the collar tabs (litzen). Luftwaffe uniforms have rank on both their collar tabs and their shoulder straps/boards. The Waffen-SS has rank on one collar tab and their shoulder straps/boards, but the Waffen-SS didn't have Waffenrocks. They did have walking out uniforms, which were well-made and used while on leave.

Study your book, young man!

Bill

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As Bill says, the hat you posted a link to is worn with an enlisted mans waffenrock ( also with the walking out dress ). Here's a photo of an officers hat. Usually made of better quaility material, but not always, and has the silver chincord instead of the leather chinstrap.

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Sorry the above photo shows the tress that signifies an NCO.It's also found on the shoulder straps and the cuffs.

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Here's the officers visor hat.

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The one on WAF is a nice looking infantry NCO's waffenrock.You can see the button under the shoulderstrap where the shooting landyard attaches to. An officers tunic would have a button here for the aiguilette.

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Any chance this aiguillette goes with this tunic? http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/559096573/m/5490022455 TR? I noticed the matching color. A sword knot was with this piece that has the same pink peppered color through it. Thanks

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No, this wouldn't go with a waffenrock. I don't even think it's Third Reich. I looked in the aiguillette book and couldn't find a match. Maybe it's from another european country?

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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond:
The one on WAF is a nice looking infantry NCO's waffenrock.You can see the button under the shoulderstrap where the shooting landyard attaches to. An officers tunic would have a button here for the aiguilette.


I'm not sure if I should get this Waffenrock from WAF. Another user said he was a little suspicious of the eagle and it's originality. Plus he doesn't reply much to my PM's or give me any info on it...

I think I'm making it too complicated. I'm thinking that me wanting an Officer Waffenrock is going to be hard for me to find. I'll just stick with a Infantry Heer Waffenrock.

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Thank you Raymond! Good luck Marker 227.


In Memory of Joe Mann
Medal of Honor Recipient
July 8, 1922 �
September 19, 1944



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Trust you instincts. It's better to walk away from a good deal than to rush into a deal you'll regret later. The eagle could have been added later on but I do believe this style (officers) could be put on during the period if the soldier had the money. You would have to see closeup photos of the eagle and the lining area behind it ( the stiching shouldn't go through the lining). If you really want a spicific item don't compromise. Get what will make you happy. Put a wanted add in the Wanted section and check with the dealers. i'm sure you'll find what your looking for.

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As nice of a deal this is, I think I'll have to pass. I'm just not liking the eagle first of all. It's style is hardly outlined nor that distinctive. The seller isn't being helpful anyway, so that is a downer.

My biggest problem is finding where I could get these uniforms. I've posted an add in the "Wanted" section and I look on WAF from time to time.

Quantico: When you said "the shoulder straps (term for enlisted) or boards (term for officers)." When you say "enlisted" you mean a non NCO rank? And "officers" you mean NCO right? Just clarifying because I'm partially confused.


I think if I want to stay below $1,000 I should just look for an NCO Infantry Waffenrock and get a matching visor for it.

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I figured out the question in regards to the officer and enlisted man visor.

Forgive me with all my obvious questions. I shall start reading my book right away.

To some it all up. I'm looking for an Infantry Waffenrock NCO (if possible) with a Visor (NCO if possible too).

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http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Uniforms/u127.htm

I'm considering this...

It has rank and it's a good price. So when the value of Wafferocks go up having and NCO is a good idea.

I'm going to email Bill and see if he can get me more pictures.



The collar doesn't look completely flat. Could that be adjusted without doing any stitching?

If I can't get this one I'll just wait a little longer and see if I can get an Infantry NCO one a little cheaper.

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=2612...%2C+Infantry+Officer

This is a hat I might consider as well. Price is a tad high for me, but people on this forum say to spend a little more to get the quality.

(sorry for double posting. can't edit for long)

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The tunic on Bill Shea's site would be a very good buy. I'm not sure what you mean about the collar not being flat. You have to remember these tunics are over 65 years old. They tend to shrink a little so they might not sit like they did when new. You can always call and ask Bill if he could bring the tunic to the Meadowlands show in Union in July. He's almost always there.
The visor that's on Craigs site is for an officer and wouldn't go with this tunic.
NCO's (Non Commissioned Officer) are enlisted men. They are just of a higher rank. Corporal is the lowest NCO rank.

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What I meant about the collar not being flat is that it looks like the tresse could be pressed a little. That's age like you said. I just want it perfect for my first tunic Smile.

I'm a little worried about the quality on the outside of the item. I've requested for more pictures. Hopefully the resolution will be good. He does mention some mothing on the item, but it doesn't sound too bad. What do you think?


I see now. The Visor I posted is for a Commissioned Officer, not an NCO. NCO's have a belt like strap on them. See I'm learning already :P.

Kind of strange how it doesn't have an aigulette. I'm sure there's a reason in my book for that Wink).

All in all, I think this is a safe buy if I do like the item's appearance on the outside. Spend a little more, get what I want (didn't expect it to have a rankSmile) and ultimately it's from a reputable seller.



When I was talking about the quality of the outside of the Waffenrock, I meant how clean the fabric looks. Professional you could say.

Examples:



It looks cleaned, pressed and all nice. One on the left is really eye catching for me.



I'm guessing I can't get a good enough idea on how the fabric looks on Bill's site because of the resolution of the picture. Could be light too.

Hopefully everything goes well and I can see it face to face.



-Mark

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I'm very excited. I called up Bill Shea's number and I'm trying to get more pictures and info on the small mothing on it. Is a little bit of mothing a problem with value? I just want it to display beautifully.


I also inquired about this dress bayonet.

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H085457.html

Do you all think this is a nice buy? Looking at the other bayonets, this is the nicest one I could find on this site.

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It all depends on were the mothing is. If it's hidden from view while displayed and it's only minor, I don't think it affects the value to much. this is really a judgement call on your part. some guys want absolute perfection where others like ground dug items. I have some tunics that fought "The battle of the moths" and lost, but there's something about them that I liked. It all comes down to what makes you happy.
The bayonet looks to be in excellent condition. While I think the price is top dollar, it may be worth it to you. Most of the ones at shows are not in this condition and they go for $125-150.

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http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Uniforms/u127x.htm

Here is the mothing.

I'm a little concerned about it.



All I want is a nice Infantry Waffenrock that looks similar to this in the way the condition of the fabric is (without medals). Everything is flat and clean without any wrinkles. It's a great display. I want that look. A professional look.

(Picture from "Pat" http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6740015654/m/9410095235)



Maybe I should post other waffenrocks I've seen. I know it comes down to what makes me happy, but it seems that each Waffenrock I've found, it's missing what the other waffenrock had.


Found one!
http://www.paulvondrak.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=511&Filter=German+Militaria

It's on hold... Sort of expensive, but this is what I want mine to look like. It looks beautiful.



I think even though the bayonet is a little high, I'm going to bite the bullet and get it.

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Check out this Waffenrock please:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/

It's on the WAF forum for $880 including paypal fees and shipping. It looks pristine just like what I wanted. It comes with the lanyard.

The user doesn't really know much about it. He's been a member since 2005 and has posted over 100 posts.

I need your opinions ladies and gents. I like this one a lot and it's right up my alley.

One user told me it wasn't a great buy, but it wasn't bad. The guy who told me that said he was deterred when he couldn't figure out if the dark spots (shadow I think it was) on the eagle meant that it was added later or if it was a picture reflection or something.

Thank you!

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Well it looks good to me... are YOU happy with it? That is the real question.

Bill

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I like the tunic. Maybe a long time down the road if I can keep it in good condition and add a visor, ect. the value will go up?



The ONLY thing I could complain about it was the eagle style.



I like how these are more defined. I can't be THAT picky though. This Waffenrock has 99.9% of what I was looking. Sheesh, it's even an NCO Smile.

I think I should be alright. The whole tunic looks preserved well and clean. I think I would love to put that on a mannequin and display it.


You all really think it's an OK tunic to buy? Nothing looks like a repro or post WWII?

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Both the tunics you posted (PVON's and the one on WAF) are beauties. I wouldn't mind owning them myself. I'm not sure of the originality of the second eagle you posted. I've never seen that style before. Does anyone know if it's good or not?

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Oh don't worry about the second eagle I posted. I just did a fast search on eagles to find one that was more defined just to give you an idea on what I was talking about.

Thats it. I'm buying the one from WAF. I emailed the seller and I'm very eager to pay for it.

Also I'm excited to get the bayonet. I pretty much have it all.

In the next coming months I'll be trying to top it off with a Visor and a belt. The proper shiny NCO belt, buckle and visor seem to be hard for me to find. I guess thats what makes this hobby so fun? Time to hunt Smile.

http://www.jssmilitaria.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=1247&Filter=German+Militaria

Possibly this one, but the inner band is ripped a little (view other pics on site).


Thanks for all your help. I'll be posting pics soon when I get a chance.

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Just paid for it. It's coming from Hong Kong I believe. It originally came from Germany.

Anyway, I'm very happy. I wanted insurance, but the seller says its expensive... It comes with tracking though.

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i would hazard to say that the second tunic eagle example in a reproduction,or a style that has not been encountered in my 45 years of collecting,,,one would think that an example of this would have been seen at some point during that time,as it is a very common item,, Confused

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That's all I used to find it.

fficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi" TARGET=_blank>http://images.google.com/images?q=breast%20eagle&ie=UTF...x-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi


Was just giving an example at how the stitching really highlights and outlines the wings.

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The bayonet is a little expensive.... $198 by itself, $231 with shipping and a processing fee (credit cards I think).

Is Canada to USA expensive?

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http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H040359.html

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H071156.html

What do you guys think of this belt and buckle? I was told the proper belt and buckle can not be an enlisted man's. It has to be NCO and the buckle is typically shiny.

Please let me know asap. I'm going to be putting the bayonet with this order so shipping and fee's are all in one.

I would go with a nicer belt, but I can't afford it and this price seems fair Smile.

That is everything I will be putting on my Waffenrock for now. Visor will come in the future Smile.


I can't thank you all and this forum enough.

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There is no difference between the EM and NCO buckle..some were shinier, some were nickle plated,but all were of the same pattern..

That 2nd eagle is 100% bad..

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Oh ok. Thank you!


Do you think that belt I showed you is in good enough condition to go with the Waffenrock?

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with that buckle based on price and condition.

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Glad to heard you're going to be getting your first uniform. I still have my first one and remember how excited I was about getting it. Don't forget to post photos when you get it.
The buckle is the correct one, the belt isn't. the belt shown is a combat one. The proper one is patten leather. It has a very shiny surface and unfortunately damaged easily. It seems if anything is resting against it, it picks up the imprint of the object. Heat is also very bad for this style belt. I've been told the surface damage can be smoothed out but have not tried yet. On the bottom is the correct one on the top is the combat type.

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Here's a photo of a dress bayo's frog (same patten leather as the belt). You can see where the back of the grip left it's impression in the leather. As long as there are no rips/tears or chuncks missing ( and price is right ) I wouldn't worry to much about it.

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Those are perfect pictures for reference!



Have you tried any leather shiner to bring out the color? Like where you can buy a little foam brush and just go over something leather to put some shine on it. I was thinking about trying to shine the bayonet a little more with some metal shiner so it sparkles, but wasn't sure if that was good for a historic item.



What I'm going to do is buy the bayonet and belt buckle I showed you in my recent post. That way I only have to hunt down a belt and I can do that later. The buckle is the most important piece on the belt to me. Thats why I can wait on the actual belt.



Who knows, maybe I'll just go to a store and pick up a black leather belt that would fit the buckle (most likely not since I like it ALL to be original).



I'll post pictures ASAP when I get my display together.



Cheers!

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I really don't want to spend $150 on just a belt...:P

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H021958.html

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Yeah, that's a little high for just the belt. I would say $75-100. You'll find one when your not looking for it.
I haven't put anything on leather in years. The reason being I once read to put vasiline on the leather helmet liner to preserve it and it ruined it. I don't want to do that again.

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I'm going to do exactly that then. Wait.


That's too bad. Maybe a leather conditioner would of been better. I have some for my car.


Would you say a troddel is overkill? I believe I read in my Waffenrock Parade Uniform book that "usually" they are only on Parade bayonets that have an image on the blade.

I want to make my uniform authentic down to each piece in the way that it was worn Smile.

http://www.wwiidaggers.com/6069.htm

The price is fantastic. $50 and it's in my state.

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A troddel would be correct on the dress bayo. The heat must be getting to me as I can't remember if that's the correct one. I couldn't find the text on it but if Tom Whittmann says it's correct then it is. I know there are ones with different colored parts but those might be earlier. I'll have to look in my books. The blade doesn't have to be engraved, actually etched, it can have a plain blade. these are much cheaper and on a manequin you'd never see the blade anyway.

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Tom Whittmann did reply to my email saying it was correct. I asked him if that troddel was appropriate for my NCO Heer Waffenrock.

I guess it's mine then Smile.


I think the only thing I would apply to my blade is some metal shiner we have. I used it on drum symbols and my car's exhaust tips and it worked very well.

The leather, I will find out about what I have before I use it.

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Bayonet and buckle is en-route, but won't have it on the tunic that fast since I'm still looking for a belt. The troddel is coming soon once I purchase it.

I need something to drape over the piano more to cover up the wires in the back. Smile

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2nd eagle awaz looks poorly done and the design strange.

marker:

w'rocks used 2 styles of eagles:

1. the officer-style, hand-woven aluminum(or silver)-bullion eagle like the 1st one here -
(normally worn by officers on their everyday tunics) and

2. a machine-made one in flat alu. or maybe also silver-thread wire. also: some 'rocks have silver-wire collar and cuff tresse 'sted of aluminum.

again, the 2nd eagle you posted here looks odd - esp. the swaz. let the eagle guys chime in..

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I know the eagle wasn't right. I just just using it for reference to show you what I meant when I said I liked how eagles were "defined". I just got it off of google really fast.

The last pics I just posted was from today. I got my tunic in the mail this afternoon.

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Don't forget to check the pockets in the rear flaps. You might get lucky and find some kind of paperwork. I once found theater tickets in them.

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Hehe I didn't realize parade bayonets didn't come with an edge. Oh well, time to get a combat one Wink.

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A combat bayo doesn't have an edge also. Bayonets are for trusting/sticking not cutting. if you find a combat bayonet with a sharpened edge it was done after it left the factory and probably after the war. I would not want to explane to "Der S****e" why I sharpenend it against orders. It also kills value.

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Marker, you seem to be interested in future re-sale value like any other commodity. I am not sure you have any interest in the historical value of these items. I hope that is not the case because you are very enthusiastic. Good luck.

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Right now I'm 19 and I can't see myself keeping this tunic I purchased for the rest of my life. I can't even see myself turning 21 for that matter haha.

Anyway, as of right now I wouldn't dare sell it because I love what I have and the fact that I have a piece of history behind it. I'm not too sure what my plan is with it, but I'd like to keep it for a very long time. I made sure to get one in good shape because it looked more beautiful and if I did sell it, it would have more value to it.

I think I would only sell it if I was trying to get a higher officials uniform like an SS tunic or something. Given that this is my first uniform, I'm not so sure I could bare loosing it. Just like my K98. It was my first rifle and I wouldn't' dream of getting rid of it


Thank you for your reply!

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I love it so much Smile.

You all are awesome. Thank you so much for the help!

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I don't blame you for loving it, it's a beauty. Are you still looking for a visor hat? I see the tunic has loops for a ribbonbar. Any thought on what you are going to put on it?

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Yes, I'm looking for a visor hat.

I think since I'm on a tight budge I'm going to settle for this -

http://www.jssmilitaria.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=1247&Filter=German+Militaria

If you look at the inside pictures, the sweatband is ripped a little, but I think I can deal with it since the outside looks presentable.


Ribbonbar? I have no idea what kind would go with it or what would look nice. Not to mention I'm not sure if the sites I know of have any Smile.


Feel free to chime in! Smile



-Mark

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Mark,

Your US uniform has what appear to be:

- US Army Combat Infantry Badge in the incorrect position

- Pilots wings on a staff NCO uniform

- US Marines marksmanship badge

Either the guy got around quite a lot or someone added a lot of detail

Dave

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I put the Infantry Badge and marksman badge on myself. That would explain a lot Wink.

I had them laying around and thought it'd better if I just put it on my US uniform.

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I wouldn't be bothered about the small tear to the sweatband. There is a small moth hole on the top in the rear but, for the price i could live with it.
For the ribbon bar since this is a high ranking NCO he would have at least along service medal and maybe one of the "flower war" medals (Austria, Czech or Memel). What is the distance of the loops from one another?

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I'll get the hat in a few months when I have more money.

As for the loops. It's roughly a half an inch away from the other loop.

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The loops will fit a single ribbon bar nicely. A multiple ribbon bar would be a little loose but just sitting on a maniquin should be fine also. I believe singles only go for $5-10.

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I'll find a nice single ribbon bar to put on it.

http://www.ww2-militaria.co.uk/Headwear.htm

Look for item "HM11A". It's $488. Too bad that there is marker on the inside hiding the owners name.

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Hey Raymond,

Which hat do you think would display nicer?

The one I just recently posted looks nice, but it isn't as "peaked" as the other. Maybe thats something that can be changed with by pushing up the inner lining or something.

Looking forward to hear from you again!



-Mark

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There are two styles of visor hats. There's the saddle type which has the high peak and the saucer type that isrounder and not as high in the front. I believe the saucer style is earlier than the saddle style but either would look fine. I personally like the saddle style but that's me.

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Hehe you got me!

After studying the saddle style for the last few days, I think I determined that I liked it a little more.

Plus it has no mothing at all (first one has a 2 small ones).

One thing I can't seem to understand... How come some visors have an RZM tag and some don't?

Obviously the saddle one from that site I posted is authentic since it has a date on the inside liner and you took a look at it...but why no RZM tag?


Oh and I just realized that the pilot wings on my US Ike Jacket is incorrect... Grrr I had no clue. I put the marksman badge and infantry badge on myself, but the pilot wings came that way.

I'll worry about that after I get my visor Smile.

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Only "Party" organizations come under the control of the RZM. Wehmacht organizations (Heer, Kriegsmarine & Luftwaffe) don't. If you seeany item from these organizations 99.9% it's a repro. There is one exception I know of and that's a Heer(Army) buckle marked RZM M4/44. This is the only original item I know of marked with an RZM code. There could be more but be cautious.

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Very Nice !!!

I love the Waffenrock tunic !!!

Sebastien.

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Grr I just realized it's 325 pounds...Not 325 euro's.... Hundred dollar difference for American money... Frown and I liked the 2nd saddle style hat.

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I found some visors I like, but it seems like I can never get the right combination...

I want it with the "saddle style", dated, and named Smile. I found a saddle style dated, but no name.


Each link is a different pic of hat even though the link looks the same.

This hat is $625...

Doesn't look like it has a maker though.

http://www.militarynut.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/sh...a.jpg&target=tlx_new
http://www.militarynut.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/sh...b.jpg&target=tlx_new
http://www.militarynut.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/sh...c.jpg&target=tlx_new


-Mark

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There's no makerer's name because this is not a private purchase hat, it's an issued hat. It's a nice hat and Andy (Militarynut) is a great guy. If you are dead set on a private purchase hat just be patient. If you can get to the local shows you'll be able to see and handle them.

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Okay, sorry for the triple posts! I just couldn't makeup my mind!


Thanks for chiming in again Raymond. I really do owe you a lot. Maybe there's someway I can express my gratitude?


I need everyones help please. Especially Raymonds Smile.

I like both of the hats I showed you. The one from Militarynut and ww2-militaria.co.uk.

The only problem I have with ww2-militaria.co.uk, is that the inside of the cap looks like this:


I'm trying to figure out which hat is going to be more valuable. Is the marker on the inside going to decrease anything?

The hat from militarynut has a date, but it's not a private purchase hat.
I wasn't certain if I should get the one from ww2-militaria since it has a maker. I was thinking that would cancel out the marker decreasing any value...

Militarynut description -
"New -- New -- New
Army E.M. visor hat
nice condition
dated 1938 under leather sweat band
shows a few lite moth nips
great war time condition"


ww2-militaria description -


"Thanks for the enquiry, item number *** is a good 'honest' infantry
NCO cap which i obtained from a mans wife in Portsmouth. He obtained from a German prisoner in an internment camp just outside Southampton after the D-Day landings.

Inside the cap his name and regiment have been blacked out which i have seen before on prisoner items.
The cap itself is in overall good condition and has a nice worn shape."

I think I'm leaning more towards ww2-militaria since it was actually issued....

What would you say is going to have more value?

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The one from ww2-militaria looks like the visor has been reattached. See what looks like black thread to the right of the ink stamping on the sweatband. If it is reattached this will have an effect on value. Some guys wouldn't mind others wouldn't bother with it no matter how low the price. If your only going for one item get the best you can afford even if it means waiting. Being your Waffenrock is a high grade NCO I'm sure he would have had a private purchase hat. Also the condition of the tunic and hat should be as close as possible.

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The visor from ww2-militaria is 340 Pounds... That's around $675. The visor from militarynut is around $600 something. I think with all the info I've been presented with I should go with the militarynut visor.

ww2-militaria told me the visor was not altered in anyway. I still don't like the marker on the inside...



Here are the pictures from militarynut. You can see a tiny moth bite. The hat is new, at least that is what it says on the site. So that means it was never issued?

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This has everything I want in a hat. I can live without a name.

Raymond, do you believe the color and fabric quality of this hat will match my waffenrock? If it's not the right color I will pass on this one. Matching it to the waffenrock is important like you said Smile.

I'm pretty sure this is the last question I need answered and I'm good to go!


-Mark

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A slight shade difference is normal. Matching the condition , color and fabric can get tedious. From the photos Andy provided I think it would match up nicely.

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As long as you think it will be close enough and I shouldn't wait, I'll get it. I don't want to put down $600+ into something that is a little more than off and won't match.

Should I request additional pictures for you?


Side by side for you:

Photobucket

Photobucket



Here are some links/pictures of other hats I was looking into as well. Most of them aren't in good shape.

These are all the choices I have pretty much. I'm finding it hard to find a visor online.

http://server16.pronicsolutions.com/~ahjessen/item385.html

http://klaus-butschek.com/index.php?sid=c1bf01815dd4e6d...ff13.88658170&pgNr=1

http://www.collectorsmilitaria.com/German_Army_NCO_Visor_021407.htm

http://www.johncasino.com/Heer%20NCO%20Private%20Purcha...or%20Cap%2011392.htm

http://www.stewartsmilitaryantiques.com/display.php?pro...getcategory=Headgear

http://historybygeorge.com/catalog/index.php


By the end of the week I think with your help Raymond I'll have made a purchase Smile.


-Mark

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It's hard to tell color wise because photos are taken with different cameras and also seen on a monitor instead of in hand. Besides the one from Andy I really like the one from John Casino , who is also a great guy and forum member. John almost always does the Meadowlands show if you wanted to see it in hand. But that's not untill Sept 20 and a months a long time to wait when you got the itch?
Which one has the closest match, material style wise.

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The one from johncasino.com is nice too.

Here are some pictures of my Waffenrock to give you a better idea of color.

I asked Andy (militarynut) for more pictures.

I don't want to rush into anything... I'm feeling a bit confused and I'm not sure which one to get...

What do you think is important here? You have a lot more experience than I do.

Photobucket


Photobucket

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It's a real hard choice. The one from Andy has the same material (Trikot).The one from John is doeskin. Both are of a high grade material with doeskin being the better of the two, I believe. Being that I'm insane, I'd buy both and also get another Waffenrock. Problem solved Roll Eyes Big Grin. With only one choice, John's wins out only because of the high saddle shape. The ultimate choice is yours.

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Seeing as though they are both the same in value, just different in peak... This does make it hard :P.


The peak not being as high as John's isn't going to hurt any kind of historical value right? If not, I think I want Andy's because it's the same material.

Is the hat Andy is selling supposed to be as low as it is? Maybe I can shape it to stay higher?

It looks like Andy's main color band (in the middle) is darker and therefore matches my waffenrock better.



My gut feeling is to go with Andy's because the color matches best and the material is the same. It's what I want for a display item. Since they are equal in value (even though there is one moth hole on Andy's, I shouldn't be worried about getting something less than what I wanted.

Sound about right? Smile

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Sounds right. Weigh all your options and trust your gut. Show us photos of the display when you get the hat.

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I sent payment today. I can't wait Smile.


Still trying to find a medal to put on it Smile.

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Photobucket

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There is a small hole on the inside. I don't think the eagle was repined. That picture looks normal?

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H049459.html

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H059758.html



It looks better without a flash...but I can't turn it off since the LCD screen has been broken for quite sometime.

I still can't believe what shape the Waffenrock is in! I look at the others online and the quality isn't as beautiful. I have no moth holes!

Only two moth holes on the top of hat and it's so minor.

To keep the brim and leather strap shiny should I do anything to it?

I'm thinking about these medals. I can't decide though... You said to get a "Long Service" medal.



I'm so glad you all confirmed it was a legit buy before I laid out the money. I was so afraid of getting a fake.


Smile

-Mark

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Hehe I hope I don't regret not buying this one:

http://www.collectorsmilitaria.com/German_Army_NCO_Visor_021407.htm


I'll just put cotton balls in mine Wink to get the peak up.

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Great looking visor and I think you made a good choice. Your display is comming along great. I wouldn't do anything to the hat or any other item. They survived 60+ years without any treatment and as long as you keep an eye on them easily another 60. One thing to look for is moth larve. The moths like to lay there eggs in dark areas like under the pocket flaps or behind things like chinstraps and belts. There are several threads on this forum about preservation. If you do a search you'll find a wealth of info, that is if the threads haven't disapeared Mad. You also want to keep dust to a minimum, preferably none at all. the electronic airfilters work very well.
If you want to put something in the hat to shape it use something like "acid free paper". I don't know if cotton balls would have any ill effect or not. I can't see why they wouldn't work but check before doing anything. John Casino is very knoweldgeable in this area and has posted preservation articles before here on GDC. Look at page 143 in the Waffenrock book.
What questions do you have about deciding on the medal?
If you can't get the flash to turn off you can put a piece of tape over it so it's blocked out.

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I'm desperately trying to find a nice display case for my tunic that would fit my whole torso mannequin. 33H 19W D8 is around the size.

http://www.homedecorators.com/detail.php?parentid=3654205&aid=shpngcm

This is exactly what I want, but it has a mirrored back and it's not sealed enough to prevent moths from getting in.

I would really like a display case like that.


The hole I was trying to take a picture of... I'll retake it.

I won't touch the visor. I'll just keep it preserved.

I'm trying to find a medal bar for the tunic as well. I'm not having much luck with it.



Okay the holes.....Dead center and tilt your head. It's on the inner orange cloth.

Not the best pics.. I'm still working on it.


Photobucket

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It's a really small hole. There are two of them. It might just be for the eagle. I just wanted to make sure you guys didn't think it was a problem.


But what I'm focusing on now is in the post before this one.

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I don't have a problem with the two small holes. Sure someone could have removed and then re-applied the eagle causing the holes but, the holes don't line-up to the placement of the pins on the eagle. There are endless possibilities, to me it's insignificant.
The display case looks fine. I don't think your going to get a perfect case unless you build it yourself. The only way to keep an insect out is to encase the item in cement but, that kind of defeats the purpose Frown. Visual periodic inspection is the best answer. You can also pick up natural products that repell insects. Cedar wood is great. I've lined my closets with it and also put some in my display cases. Mothballs are bad. The stink and give off chemicals that will damage item over time. I only use them when I first get a new cloth item just incase I've missed something from my visual inspection.
The Union NJ show is Sept 20th, if you haven't found a medal bar or ribbon bar by then, you should find one there.

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I'm going to try and get a custom case. I found a dealer that has a very good price.


Anyway, I don't know what kind of ribbon bar I should get. How many ribbons will fit on the loop I have? Or what sites carry them.

I know you said in your previous post to get a few certain ones, but I can't find them.

I think I want a ribbon bar because they are cheaper.

Smile

-Mark

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I don't remember exact dates but the Waffenrock was fazed out early in the war. So the ribbons that make most sence to me would be ones awarded late 30's to 40/41.In some cases even WW1 ribbons, all depends on the individual. In this case I doubt it. There are several size ribbons for the ribbon bars, 25mm long x 17mm high, 15 x 17, 30 x 17, 11 x 17 and 15 x 10 sew on type. I looked at several of my tunis and most loops are 3/4" appart and have 2 of the 15 x 17 bars. Some hae even been pined through the tunic itself. Probably added by a collector.
Here's a long service bar. The last one is for Customs. The Army style is like the first and second with a silver colored eagle.

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Here's an Austrian Anschluss ribbon.

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Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia. This one can also have the Praque Bar.

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There's also one for Memel but I don't have one. These 3 are from what are called "The Flower Wars" as no shots were fired in taking these ares.
Schiffer puts out a book on ribbon bars which is good but not complete.

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I'm going to go to the show in Union. Maybe I'll get a medal then. If not, there's no rush on it. The uniform looks good anyway Wink.

I'm still in awe when I look at my uniform standing high and proudly with a visor on it. It's amazing. It's just so beautiful...Each and every stitch on it. So perfect....I love the design down to the thread Smile.


I can't wait to put a case around it.

Would you take the bayonet out of the scabbard to prevent wear on it? I heard you should do that with swords on here.

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