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What do you guys think?

I just found this on a forum. It would be my first uniform and my most expensive purchase. I have a few medals from the US and a few German items like a coin, k98, few dummy bullets and stripper clips.

Is this too expensive? Is it too much of a huge by for me?

I still like the Infantry Oberfeldwebel Reg. 41, and the Infantry Feldwebel, Reg. 16 more than Artillery. I haven't seen those around and I'm afraid they might be out of my price range.

Also, I'm trying to find out what the insignia on the arm is. Anyone know it offhand?


"Arty Waffenrock in nice condition. Has Stuttgart tailor tag. Collar liner present. Has a period repair to lower portion of liner and some minor stains to the inside. Inside belt has been removed. Appears to be Regimental marked in lower inside linning. Was purchased from Detlev N several years ago and comes with a certif of authent. from him. $800.00 USD. Plus shipping and Paypal fees if needed."









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Your photos aren't showing up. If the uniform is original and in good condition $800 is a good price.

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That's weird. They show up for me.

I'm not too sure. I'm going to sit on it for a little while. I hardly know anything about Waffenrocks.


I'm looking for a tunic with a tresse on the collar and cuffs and a aiguillete. I could add the aiguillete later on I suppose. I want it all on an Infantry Waffenrock.

To put an aiguillete on a Waffenrock does it have to be a Lieutenant?

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That's weird. They show up for me.

Here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/Misc/attachment-6.jpg


I'm not too sure. I'm going to sit on it for a little while. I hardly know anything about Waffenrocks. I think I might take this though. It has everything, but it's in the color red...

I'm looking for a tunic with a tresse on the collar and cuffs and a aiguillete. I could add the aiguillete later on I suppose. I want it all on an Infantry Waffenrock. That's all I want... An infantry Waffenrock to get me started.

Can someone tell me if this is Original??

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Thanks for the links to the photos. Looks like a nice original Artillery waffenrock. The aiguillete is worn by officers only. With an enlisted waffenrock you could use the shooting landyard in the same place. The rank on this one is for a Oberfeldwebel and has a Specialist patch on the sleave for a "motor maintenance sergeant".
Have you picked up the book on Waffenrocks yet? If not you should, it's a great book.

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Unfortunately it's gone. It's ok though. I didn't really like the bright red, nor did I want artillery.

Now I'm frustrated :P.

I really like the aiguillete. Maybe I should wait till I come across an Infantry Waffenrock that has one?

This is probably an obvious question, but do only officers wear Peaked Visor caps? I want to match a Waffenrock to a cap.

Yes, I do have the book.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291372

Here's another listing.


I really appreciate your help. It's hard to find people I can talk to who can guide me a little and answer my many questions.

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Enlisted men also wore visor caps. There are some differences, the most obvious being the silver colored chin cords on the officer types. Enlisted chin straps consisted of a leather band with adjustment buckles. Ask questions here and wherever else like minded people get together. Use caution as there are as many fakes as there are good stuff out there. There are knowledgable people here.


Mike Dalton
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http://www.jssmilitaria.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=1247&Filter=German+Militaria

So this would NOT be appropriate for a non NCO waffenrock?

How do you tell if a Waffenrock is an NCO.

I know, I know, I should read my book on it. Wink

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This cap is the kind you need for matching up with an Infantry enlisted tunic, including a Waffenrock. This is the service cap, sometimes referred to by collectors as a visor cap.

NCOs wore silver or matt tress around their shoulder straps and their collars, with certain exceptions. Rank will be determined by the shoulder straps (term for enlisted) or boards (term for officers). Army tunics will have rank on the shoulders. Branch coloring, or Waffenfarben, are determined on the strap/board edges and the collar tabs (litzen). Luftwaffe uniforms have rank on both their collar tabs and their shoulder straps/boards. The Waffen-SS has rank on one collar tab and their shoulder straps/boards, but the Waffen-SS didn't have Waffenrocks. They did have walking out uniforms, which were well-made and used while on leave.

Study your book, young man!

Bill

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As Bill says, the hat you posted a link to is worn with an enlisted mans waffenrock ( also with the walking out dress ). Here's a photo of an officers hat. Usually made of better quaility material, but not always, and has the silver chincord instead of the leather chinstrap.

MVC-004S.JPG (39.88 KB, 571 downloads)
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Sorry the above photo shows the tress that signifies an NCO.It's also found on the shoulder straps and the cuffs.

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Here's the officers visor hat.

MVC-003S.JPG (38.61 KB, 554 downloads)
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The one on WAF is a nice looking infantry NCO's waffenrock.You can see the button under the shoulderstrap where the shooting landyard attaches to. An officers tunic would have a button here for the aiguilette.

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Any chance this aiguillette goes with this tunic? http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/559096573/m/5490022455 TR? I noticed the matching color. A sword knot was with this piece that has the same pink peppered color through it. Thanks

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No, this wouldn't go with a waffenrock. I don't even think it's Third Reich. I looked in the aiguillette book and couldn't find a match. Maybe it's from another european country?

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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond:
The one on WAF is a nice looking infantry NCO's waffenrock.You can see the button under the shoulderstrap where the shooting landyard attaches to. An officers tunic would have a button here for the aiguilette.


I'm not sure if I should get this Waffenrock from WAF. Another user said he was a little suspicious of the eagle and it's originality. Plus he doesn't reply much to my PM's or give me any info on it...

I think I'm making it too complicated. I'm thinking that me wanting an Officer Waffenrock is going to be hard for me to find. I'll just stick with a Infantry Heer Waffenrock.

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Thank you Raymond! Good luck Marker 227.


In Memory of Joe Mann
Medal of Honor Recipient
July 8, 1922 �
September 19, 1944



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Trust you instincts. It's better to walk away from a good deal than to rush into a deal you'll regret later. The eagle could have been added later on but I do believe this style (officers) could be put on during the period if the soldier had the money. You would have to see closeup photos of the eagle and the lining area behind it ( the stiching shouldn't go through the lining). If you really want a spicific item don't compromise. Get what will make you happy. Put a wanted add in the Wanted section and check with the dealers. i'm sure you'll find what your looking for.

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As nice of a deal this is, I think I'll have to pass. I'm just not liking the eagle first of all. It's style is hardly outlined nor that distinctive. The seller isn't being helpful anyway, so that is a downer.

My biggest problem is finding where I could get these uniforms. I've posted an add in the "Wanted" section and I look on WAF from time to time.

Quantico: When you said "the shoulder straps (term for enlisted) or boards (term for officers)." When you say "enlisted" you mean a non NCO rank? And "officers" you mean NCO right? Just clarifying because I'm partially confused.


I think if I want to stay below $1,000 I should just look for an NCO Infantry Waffenrock and get a matching visor for it.

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I figured out the question in regards to the officer and enlisted man visor.

Forgive me with all my obvious questions. I shall start reading my book right away.

To some it all up. I'm looking for an Infantry Waffenrock NCO (if possible) with a Visor (NCO if possible too).

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http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Uniforms/u127.htm

I'm considering this...

It has rank and it's a good price. So when the value of Wafferocks go up having and NCO is a good idea.

I'm going to email Bill and see if he can get me more pictures.



The collar doesn't look completely flat. Could that be adjusted without doing any stitching?

If I can't get this one I'll just wait a little longer and see if I can get an Infantry NCO one a little cheaper.

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=2612...%2C+Infantry+Officer

This is a hat I might consider as well. Price is a tad high for me, but people on this forum say to spend a little more to get the quality.

(sorry for double posting. can't edit for long)

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The tunic on Bill Shea's site would be a very good buy. I'm not sure what you mean about the collar not being flat. You have to remember these tunics are over 65 years old. They tend to shrink a little so they might not sit like they did when new. You can always call and ask Bill if he could bring the tunic to the Meadowlands show in Union in July. He's almost always there.
The visor that's on Craigs site is for an officer and wouldn't go with this tunic.
NCO's (Non Commissioned Officer) are enlisted men. They are just of a higher rank. Corporal is the lowest NCO rank.

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What I meant about the collar not being flat is that it looks like the tresse could be pressed a little. That's age like you said. I just want it perfect for my first tunic Smile.

I'm a little worried about the quality on the outside of the item. I've requested for more pictures. Hopefully the resolution will be good. He does mention some mothing on the item, but it doesn't sound too bad. What do you think?


I see now. The Visor I posted is for a Commissioned Officer, not an NCO. NCO's have a belt like strap on them. See I'm learning already :P.

Kind of strange how it doesn't have an aigulette. I'm sure there's a reason in my book for that Wink).

All in all, I think this is a safe buy if I do like the item's appearance on the outside. Spend a little more, get what I want (didn't expect it to have a rankSmile) and ultimately it's from a reputable seller.



When I was talking about the quality of the outside of the Waffenrock, I meant how clean the fabric looks. Professional you could say.

Examples:



It looks cleaned, pressed and all nice. One on the left is really eye catching for me.



I'm guessing I can't get a good enough idea on how the fabric looks on Bill's site because of the resolution of the picture. Could be light too.

Hopefully everything goes well and I can see it face to face.



-Mark

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I'm very excited. I called up Bill Shea's number and I'm trying to get more pictures and info on the small mothing on it. Is a little bit of mothing a problem with value? I just want it to display beautifully.


I also inquired about this dress bayonet.

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H085457.html

Do you all think this is a nice buy? Looking at the other bayonets, this is the nicest one I could find on this site.

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It all depends on were the mothing is. If it's hidden from view while displayed and it's only minor, I don't think it affects the value to much. this is really a judgement call on your part. some guys want absolute perfection where others like ground dug items. I have some tunics that fought "The battle of the moths" and lost, but there's something about them that I liked. It all comes down to what makes you happy.
The bayonet looks to be in excellent condition. While I think the price is top dollar, it may be worth it to you. Most of the ones at shows are not in this condition and they go for $125-150.

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http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Uniforms/u127x.htm

Here is the mothing.

I'm a little concerned about it.



All I want is a nice Infantry Waffenrock that looks similar to this in the way the condition of the fabric is (without medals). Everything is flat and clean without any wrinkles. It's a great display. I want that look. A professional look.

(Picture from "Pat" http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6740015654/m/9410095235)



Maybe I should post other waffenrocks I've seen. I know it comes down to what makes me happy, but it seems that each Waffenrock I've found, it's missing what the other waffenrock had.


Found one!
http://www.paulvondrak.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=511&Filter=German+Militaria

It's on hold... Sort of expensive, but this is what I want mine to look like. It looks beautiful.



I think even though the bayonet is a little high, I'm going to bite the bullet and get it.

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Check out this Waffenrock please:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v603/marker227/

It's on the WAF forum for $880 including paypal fees and shipping. It looks pristine just like what I wanted. It comes with the lanyard.

The user doesn't really know much about it. He's been a member since 2005 and has posted over 100 posts.

I need your opinions ladies and gents. I like this one a lot and it's right up my alley.

One user told me it wasn't a great buy, but it wasn't bad. The guy who told me that said he was deterred when he couldn't figure out if the dark spots (shadow I think it was) on the eagle meant that it was added later or if it was a picture reflection or something.

Thank you!

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Well it looks good to me... are YOU happy with it? That is the real question.

Bill

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I like the tunic. Maybe a long time down the road if I can keep it in good condition and add a visor, ect. the value will go up?



The ONLY thing I could complain about it was the eagle style.



I like how these are more defined. I can't be THAT picky though. This Waffenrock has 99.9% of what I was looking. Sheesh, it's even an NCO Smile.

I think I should be alright. The whole tunic looks preserved well and clean. I think I would love to put that on a mannequin and display it.


You all really think it's an OK tunic to buy? Nothing looks like a repro or post WWII?

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Both the tunics you posted (PVON's and the one on WAF) are beauties. I wouldn't mind owning them myself. I'm not sure of the originality of the second eagle you posted. I've never seen that style before. Does anyone know if it's good or not?

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Oh don't worry about the second eagle I posted. I just did a fast search on eagles to find one that was more defined just to give you an idea on what I was talking about.

Thats it. I'm buying the one from WAF. I emailed the seller and I'm very eager to pay for it.

Also I'm excited to get the bayonet. I pretty much have it all.

In the next coming months I'll be trying to top it off with a Visor and a belt. The proper shiny NCO belt, buckle and visor seem to be hard for me to find. I guess thats what makes this hobby so fun? Time to hunt Smile.

http://www.jssmilitaria.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=1247&Filter=German+Militaria

Possibly this one, but the inner band is ripped a little (view other pics on site).


Thanks for all your help. I'll be posting pics soon when I get a chance.

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Just paid for it. It's coming from Hong Kong I believe. It originally came from Germany.

Anyway, I'm very happy. I wanted insurance, but the seller says its expensive... It comes with tracking though.

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i would hazard to say that the second tunic eagle example in a reproduction,or a style that has not been encountered in my 45 years of collecting,,,one would think that an example of this would have been seen at some point during that time,as it is a very common item,, Confused

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That's all I used to find it.

fficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi" TARGET=_blank>http://images.google.com/images?q=breast%20eagle&ie=UTF...x-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi


Was just giving an example at how the stitching really highlights and outlines the wings.

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The bayonet is a little expensive.... $198 by itself, $231 with shipping and a processing fee (credit cards I think).

Is Canada to USA expensive?

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http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H040359.html

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H071156.html

What do you guys think of this belt and buckle? I was told the proper belt and buckle can not be an enlisted man's. It has to be NCO and the buckle is typically shiny.

Please let me know asap. I'm going to be putting the bayonet with this order so shipping and fee's are all in one.

I would go with a nicer belt, but I can't afford it and this price seems fair Smile.

That is everything I will be putting on my Waffenrock for now. Visor will come in the future Smile.


I can't thank you all and this forum enough.

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There is no difference between the EM and NCO buckle..some were shinier, some were nickle plated,but all were of the same pattern..

That 2nd eagle is 100% bad..

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Oh ok. Thank you!


Do you think that belt I showed you is in good enough condition to go with the Waffenrock?

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with that buckle based on price and condition.

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Glad to heard you're going to be getting your first uniform. I still have my first one and remember how excited I was about getting it. Don't forget to post photos when you get it.
The buckle is the correct one, the belt isn't. the belt shown is a combat one. The proper one is patten leather. It has a very shiny surface and unfortunately damaged easily. It seems if anything is resting against it, it picks up the imprint of the object. Heat is also very bad for this style belt. I've been told the surface damage can be smoothed out but have not tried yet. On the bottom is the correct one on the top is the combat type.

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Here's a photo of a dress bayo's frog (same patten leather as the belt). You can see where the back of the grip left it's impression in the leather. As long as there are no rips/tears or chuncks missing ( and price is right ) I wouldn't worry to much about it.

MVC-016S.JPG (39.62 KB, 248 downloads)
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