Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#164351 06/06/2008 12:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Hello,

Since we seem to have lost our WSP thread I would like to start a new one.

Clearly the WSP was a very small organization and consequently any relics from that group are rare in the real sense. For those not familiar with what they did, the WSP was responsible for the security of waterways, including inland lakes and rivers,as well as ocean harbors.

It was a dead end job, and not considered a positive as far as career was concerned. My understanding is that there were NO officer promotions in the WSP for the duration of the war. Many of the personnel were drawn from the navy pre-war. There were NO general rank WSP.


Regards,
Bill Unland

#164352 06/06/2008 12:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Here is one of Joe's photos, which I'm sure he won't mind my reposting, showing "big" bullion cap eagles in wear. The two guys in the middle seem to be wearing cap eagles as large as sleeve eagles, so my combination above would not be impossible.

wsp4.jpg (30.58 KB, 975 downloads)
#164353 06/06/2008 02:20 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 513
S
Offline
S
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 513
Here is a side cap. Not very good picture. It has a 1944 date in it but is faded and hard to read in a photo.

MVC-001S.JPG (30.45 KB, 968 downloads)
Water police side cap

"Insanity is heriditary. You get it from your kids." Quote from Ronald Regans diary.
#164354 06/06/2008 03:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
S
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
WSP Officer's Schirmmuetze:

IMG_1147.jpg (44.67 KB, 943 downloads)
#164355 06/06/2008 04:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,267
Offline
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,267
Unfortuantely WSP uniforms are rather scarce and about all I have are some period pictures to share. I'll have to dig out some rank and sleeve insignia to add later. Thinking back, it seems like a I only remember seeing one tunic berfore from ORPO...

That is a serious bummer another thread went missing, although it doesn't surprise me. Hopefully these thread issues will cease!

posting.JPG (29.97 KB, 923 downloads)
#164356 06/06/2008 04:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,267
Offline
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,267
And another picture of the same officer...

DSCF0023.JPG (56.13 KB, 921 downloads)
#164357 06/06/2008 06:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Dave,

That guy's cap eagle is HUGE. Almost looks like a sleeve eagle.

Regards,
Bill Unland

#164358 06/06/2008 01:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
I am afraid that after my computer crash I only have some poor quality backup photos remaining and none from the old lost WSP thread.

At any rate, here is the Wasserschutzpolizei NCO uniform once again.

WSP_tunic.JPG (29.01 KB, 864 downloads)

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
#164359 06/06/2008 05:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
V
Offline
V
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
This is all I have Paul

wp1.jpg (31.84 KB, 845 downloads)
#164360 06/06/2008 05:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
V
Offline
V
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
#2

wp2.jpg (33.35 KB, 839 downloads)
#164361 06/07/2008 12:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Thanks George, the only one I have ever seen.

Paul never say "only", that is a very pretty dagger.

Regards,
Bill U

#164362 06/07/2008 03:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,306
Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,306
Thank you so much Bill . . . I'm likely one of many, who truly appreciate your efforts in trying to reestablish the lost thread on the WSP!

WWPlayout.jpg (74.83 KB, 768 downloads)

GDC Gold Badge #0204

"Even if such objects cannot change the soul of man, at least they give him an identity." - Heinrich Himmler
#164363 06/21/2008 05:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
S
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
WSP Senior NCO:

IMG_5125.jpg (24.53 KB, 717 downloads)
#164364 06/21/2008 05:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
S
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
WSP NCO:

IMG_5118.jpg (22.27 KB, 707 downloads)
#164365 06/21/2008 05:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
S
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
WSP Offizier:

WASSERSCHUTZPOL5555555555555.jpg (27.63 KB, 705 downloads)
#164366 06/21/2008 05:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
S
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
WSP w/ SS runes:

wspss.jpg (52.6 KB, 701 downloads)
#164367 06/21/2008 05:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
S
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
WSP Officer:

waterp.jpg (36.84 KB, 698 downloads)
#164368 06/21/2008 05:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
S
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
Another w/ bullion eagle:

DSC_7681.JPG (74.25 KB, 689 downloads)
#164369 06/21/2008 05:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
S
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
Joe, this one should look familiar--a WSP by my favorite maker, Pekuro:

IMG_0448.jpg (63.79 KB, 685 downloads)
#164370 08/25/2008 07:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13
D
dw Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13
did the rank of Zugwachtmeister apply to the wsp Smile

#164371 08/26/2008 12:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Dear DW,

NO. Here is a link to WSP ranks on Ernst's site: http://www.germanpolice.org/index2.htm?/organisation/branche-schupo-r-wsp.htm

Look under shoulderboards/Wasserschutzpolizei.

Regards,
Bill Unland

#164372 08/26/2008 02:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
DW,

When you look at Ernst's webpage you should also notice that Zugwachtmeister is a position and not a specific rank. The position could be held by several ranks just like the position of der Spiess. Both are indicated by rings of tresse on the cuffs rather than rank on the shoulder boards.


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
#164373 10/06/2008 03:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
I have not got much WSP its very hard to find, and those that do have it are very lucky. So here is all I have. Officers side cap.

Left_side.jpg (62.57 KB, 546 downloads)
#164374 10/06/2008 03:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
front of side cap with other ranks eagle

front.jpg (59.94 KB, 561 downloads)
#164375 10/06/2008 03:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
inside

cap_inside.jpg (69.09 KB, 557 downloads)
#164376 10/06/2008 03:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
couple of pairs of shoulderboards

boards.jpg (104.82 KB, 506 downloads)
#164377 10/06/2008 03:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
other ranks arm eagle

eagle.jpg (48.48 KB, 501 downloads)
#164378 10/06/2008 03:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
officers arm eagle

officers_eagle.JPG (45.69 KB, 493 downloads)
#164379 10/06/2008 04:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
Here is a nice photo study of water police uniforms in wear. On the right of the picture we have a man with a hugh none regulation (or is it?) cap eagle in metal, behind him there is a man with the not seen before, water police cape in wear and on the left side is the greatcoat and the reverse of the service coat. A very nice photo.

waterpolice.JPG (108.37 KB, 486 downloads)
#164380 10/06/2008 04:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
close up of the extreamly large metal cap eagle

waterpolice_close_up.JPG (46.41 KB, 478 downloads)
#164381 10/06/2008 04:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
here is another photo with the bullion cap eagle in wear

wsp_close.JPG (70.78 KB, 402 downloads)
#164382 10/06/2008 05:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
here is another very interesting photo showing water police wearing what appears to be summer issue mottled uniforms. Notice the man in the middle of the picture who is wearing collar patches, wonder if they are yellow? and the man at the back of the photo who has got no shoulderboards

Navy_police.JPG (96.28 KB, 400 downloads)
#164383 10/06/2008 05:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
close up of uniforms

Navy_police_close_up.JPG (98.18 KB, 394 downloads)
#164384 10/06/2008 05:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,348
One last one, three types of uniform worn in this photo, on the right the regular navy blue jacket next to the summer jacket on the other side ther is a white jacket in wear, but the cap he is wearing would indicate that he is other ranks with the lack of chin chords, could this man be wearing a yellow on white eagle??

summer_uniform.JPG (107.67 KB, 389 downloads)
#164385 10/08/2008 03:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Here my Wasserschutz-Polizei bevo sleeve eagle .

MVC-001S.JPG (53.9 KB, 372 downloads)
#164386 10/08/2008 03:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and the backside is almost as interesting !

MVC-016S.JPG (60.18 KB, 365 downloads)
#164387 10/08/2008 03:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
My only sgl. Lt. shoulder board.

MVC-006S.JPG (30.42 KB, 365 downloads)
#164388 10/08/2008 03:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and a close-up.

MVC-009S.JPG (35.21 KB, 362 downloads)
#164389 10/08/2008 04:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..it is a slip-on .

MVC-007S.JPG (28.33 KB, 358 downloads)
#164390 10/08/2008 04:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
My pair of 'Meister' shoulder boards.

MVC-003S.JPG (57.98 KB, 358 downloads)
#164391 10/08/2008 04:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and a close-up.They are on a twill material.

MVC-004S.JPG (57.9 KB, 352 downloads)
#164392 10/08/2008 04:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
My pair of 'Wachtmeister' shoulder boards .

MVC-005S.JPG (54.44 KB, 357 downloads)
#164393 10/08/2008 04:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and again a close-up . They are also on a twill material .

MVC-010S.JPG (57.43 KB, 348 downloads)
#164394 10/08/2008 04:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Here my 'Wachtmeister' shoulder board that has no backing .

MVC-014S.JPG (35.47 KB, 348 downloads)
#164395 10/08/2008 04:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
This was actual the backside ! Here now the front side .

MVC-011S.JPG (33.17 KB, 346 downloads)
#164396 10/08/2008 04:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
My two first style visor cap eagle that kept their gilt finish very well !
2 different manufacturer's as you can see .

MVC-017S.JPG (38.31 KB, 349 downloads)
#164397 10/08/2008 04:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and the backside of the 'very' gilt one .
The other one is very similar , except the flat prongs sit lower on it .

MVC-019S.JPG (38.21 KB, 339 downloads)
#164398 10/08/2008 04:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Here my 2nd style eagle that has a raised chest and thick/projected wings ;-almost like an Officer's eagle .

MVC-025S.JPG (37.98 KB, 341 downloads)
#164399 10/08/2008 04:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Deep cast backside with hmk 'C.D.'.

MVC-031S.JPG (39.25 KB, 343 downloads)
#164400 10/08/2008 04:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Very bright gilt EM cap eagle .

MVC-027S.JPG (38.37 KB, 340 downloads)
#164401 10/08/2008 04:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Backside has the hmk. for 'Aurich , Dresden'.

MVC-029S.JPG (52.33 KB, 324 downloads)
#164402 10/09/2008 12:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Here now my WasserscHutzpolizei Winter Furr Cap . It has a raised gilted Police Officer's eagle on the front .

MVC-001S.JPG (57.88 KB, 313 downloads)
#164403 10/09/2008 12:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Gary,

Great pictures of the WSP guys!

Bernd,

Nice insignia!


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
#164404 10/09/2008 12:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and a side view.

MVC-006S.JPG (58.31 KB, 450 downloads)
#164405 10/09/2008 12:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
,,and with the ear warmer flaps down .

MVC-012S.JPG (57.96 KB, 447 downloads)
#164406 10/09/2008 12:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and again a side view . Note the stitch lines to reinforce the flap .

MVC-013S.JPG (59.76 KB, 438 downloads)
#164407 10/09/2008 12:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and a iside shot also shows reinforcement stitch lines .

MVC-009S.JPG (57.02 KB, 434 downloads)
#164408 10/09/2008 12:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Close-up of the 2 dark blue/black ink cancels .

#164409 10/09/2008 12:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
First one is a long box shape with
'R.B.Nr. 0/1200/0747' and hat size '58' and year '1944'.

MVC-017S.JPG (61.03 KB, 439 downloads)
#164410 10/09/2008 12:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Second cancel is a round one with an eagle at the center and around it ' Ortsstelle ' at top and " Wasserschutzpolizei' below .

MVC-018S.JPG (63.6 KB, 436 downloads)
#164411 10/09/2008 12:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Now the super gilted Police Officer's eagle .

MVC-019S.JPG (60.63 KB, 450 downloads)
#164412 10/09/2008 01:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Since the front furr flap is sewn to the cap , I can not look at the backside of the eagle to see if there is a hmk .

MVC-021S.JPG (62.73 KB, 446 downloads)
#164413 10/09/2008 01:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and a close-up . The actual gilt color is even a richer and darker gilt tone as the photos show you !

MVC-022S.JPG (55.04 KB, 446 downloads)
#164414 10/09/2008 01:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and one more , since I like it so much !

MVC-023S.JPG (60.45 KB, 438 downloads)
#164415 10/11/2008 02:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 99
D
Offline
D
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 99
Hello - I am not very knowledgeable in the area of uniforms, but have a few uniforms and hats in my collection. One hat is an overseas type (Bordmütze?), the exact shape/style as the one shown by Gary B. The exterior appears to be dark blue wool and the interior a medium blue rayon. Excellent quality, but it is unmarked.

The only difference is in the the piping and the police style eagle, which are silver. Possibly not WPP, but what?

Thanks, Dan

#164416 10/11/2008 02:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 99
D
Offline
D
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 99
Also - can anyone identify the type of sidearm being worn by the bewildered looking man on the right of picture #1 by GARY8? Could it be a KS98?

Dan

#164417 10/11/2008 02:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Dear Dan,

A blue cap with silver piping would be a Feuerwehr (fire department) officer's side cap. Also the photo seems to show slotted bayonet.


Dear Bernd,

Very pretty cap but with what WSP uniform could it possibly be worn? The only "green" WSP tunic was the summer tunic shown by Gary. I suppose a "regular" police cap put into WSP use is a possibility. I have often argued that since the WSP was so small most "gold" nco insignia and buckles really belong to the traffic police. Perhaps that is the case here as well?????

Regards,
Bill Unland

#164418 10/11/2008 04:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 99
D
Offline
D
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 99
Bill - Thank you for your answers. I have had several opinions on the hat, but none were definate.

Thanks again, Dan

#164419 10/11/2008 03:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Dear Bill : If I was a WSP Officer and had to go out on a harbour patroll boat in icecold winter weather , I be glad I would have this warm cap on my head !
The cap , like many Officer's items , could be private purchase and he put the cancel in there to have it returned to the 'Ortsstelle der Wasserschutzpolizei' just in case he forgot it somewhere .
Also , the cap shows no wear . So , he could have bought it just if he ever needed it ;--but at the end of the war just layed it away at home .As my Dad had a mint police tunic jacket issued to him with officer's insignia , like the collar tabs and Oblt. shoulder boards on it ,stored in his footlocker at home ;--and the sleeve eagle had not even been sewn to the arm !
The gilted eagle on this cap is the finest , gilted Officer's eagle I have ever seen !
Regards, Bernd .

#164420 10/11/2008 09:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Dear Bernd,

Of course you are correct. It hadn't even registered in my enfeebled mind that the eagle was an officer's, and you're right a beauty, so obviously NOT traffic police (no officers).

If not for the stamp I would have voted Police General.

In any case beautiful piece. You and your son have cornered the police collecting market it seems Wink

Regards,
Bill Unland

#164421 12/23/2008 07:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
BTT to keep alive

#164422 01/02/2009 03:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
S
Offline
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
Great thread.

Personally, I only have one WSP related item in my collection and that is a Dienstpass. Some details below;

On 11/8/42, the holder (Karrasch) was posted to the Wasserschutzpolizei training school in Stettin. On completion of training 8/2/43, he was posted to WSchp.Rev. Berdjansk (WSchp Kdo. Asov Sea), were he served until 26/6/43. On 27/6/43, he was transferred to WSchp.Rev. Mariupol (Aussenpost Jalta) until 13/9/43. From 14/9/43 – 1/2/44 with WSchp.Komp.Asov Sea. On 2/2/44, Karrasch was transferred to the East Adriatic. From 2/2/44 – 23/3/44 he served with WSchp Komp. Ost-Adria, conducting anti-partisan operations in Rawme(Rovinj), Görz and Trieste. From 24/3/44 – 2/5/44, he served with WSchp. Rev.Pola(Pula) for anti-partisan operations in that area.

Graham

page_11.jpg (100.73 KB, 343 downloads)
#164423 01/02/2009 03:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
S
Offline
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
pic2

page_12.jpg (89.29 KB, 338 downloads)
#164424 01/02/2009 03:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
S
Offline
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
pic3

page_28_29.jpg (106.77 KB, 341 downloads)
#164425 01/02/2009 03:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
S
Offline
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
pic4

page_15.JPG (102.22 KB, 340 downloads)
#164426 01/02/2009 04:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Graham : This got to be one of the most interesting police passports I have ever seen !---And very rare , since it is waterpolice !
Any info , what happened to the man at the very end ??? Prison camps and did he get back to Germany ???

#164427 01/02/2009 04:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
Graham : Also , any awards listed ???

#164428 01/02/2009 09:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
S
Offline
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
Hi Bernd,

Haven't had time to fully research this yet, so I'm afraid I dont know his fate.

Awards page;

IMGP3637.JPG (83.35 KB, 316 downloads)
#164429 01/02/2009 09:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
S
Offline
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
Some other postings. Entry 5 being of particular importance.

IMGP3628.JPG (106.2 KB, 313 downloads)
#164430 01/04/2009 09:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
S
Offline
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
Karrasch served Sept. 1940 - Aug. 1942 with the Hamburg based Pol.Btl.303.
This Btl. was sent June 1941 to Russia and became notorious for its participations in the killing of Jews.

Pol.Btl.303 was part of Pol.Rgt.Süd., the other two Btl. of this Rgt. were Btl.45 and 314.
Polizei Regiment Süd was active with the Einsatzgruppen.

From some of the daily reports 19/8 - 5/10 1941, we see:
25.Aug. Süd shot 1,324 Jews.
27.Aug. two reports for that day: Süd shot 549 and 914 Jews.
28.Aug. Süd shot 369 Jews.
1.Sept. Süd shot 88 Jews.
2.Sept. Süd shot 45 Jews.
4.Sept. Süd shot 4,144 Jews.
6.Sept. Süd shot 144 Jews.
11.Sept. Süd shot 1,548 Jews.
12.Sept. Süd shot 1,255 Jews.

Pol.Rgt.Süd reported on 12.Sept. 1941 the shooting of 1,255 Jews at Ovruch.
And on 19.Sept. it reported the shooting of 18,000 Jews at Zhitomir.

Sep. 29/30, Sonderkommando 4a, Polizei Regiment Süd with its Battalion 45 and 303, and a company of Waffen-SS were involved in the massive slaughter of Jews at Babi Yar, near Kiev. In the course of two days they murdered 33,771 Jews.

Karrasch's performance during his service with this mass-murderers unit is stated as "very good" !!!

The unit went on with killing Jews.
Some thousands in Berditsjev and Vinnitsa, and
smaller executions in Chorol, Krementsjoeg and Poltava.
10-14 Oct. about 10,000 Jews were killed in Dnepropetrovsk.
End of Jan.1942 they were executing Jews in Charkow.

Seperate combat sheets describe Security and Cleanings operations. Two of the sheets, one with the Fieldpoststamp 38101 = Pol.Btl.303, and the other with stamp 36524 = stab.Pol. Rgt.Süd, shows: 23.9.-14.10.1941, and 23.9.-15.10.1941, Security and Cleaning operations in Kiew.

copy_combat_page_1.jpg (69.61 KB, 296 downloads)
#164431 01/04/2009 09:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
S
Offline
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
pic2

copy_CB_page_2.jpg (57.67 KB, 301 downloads)
#164432 01/04/2009 09:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
S
Offline
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
pic3

copy_CB_page_3.jpg (61.93 KB, 299 downloads)
#164433 01/04/2009 09:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
S
Offline
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
pic4

copy_CB_page_4.jpg (60.05 KB, 292 downloads)
#164434 01/04/2009 09:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
S
Offline
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
pic5

copy_CB_page_5.jpg (61.99 KB, 344 downloads)
#164435 01/06/2009 06:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
quote:
Originally posted by W.Unland:
Dear Bernd,

Of course you are correct. It hadn't even registered in my enfeebled mind that the eagle was an officer's, and you're right a beauty, so obviously NOT traffic police (no officers). It hadn't even registered in my enfeebled mind that the eagle was an officer's, and you're right a beauty, so obviously NOT traffic police (no officers).

If not for the stamp I would have voted Police General.

In any case beautiful piece. You and your son have cornered the police collecting market it seems Wink

Regards,
Bill Unland


Hello. Are you quite sure about your statement above Bill? Hmm?


"This hobby is a continuing education"
Looking for Walther Model 8 #727649
and Walther PP #975557
#164436 01/06/2009 09:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Dear Joe,

Which part.....no traffic officers, nice eagle, or?

Regards,
Bill U

#164437 01/07/2009 04:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Hey Bill. Well it is obviously a beautiful officer quality eagle, so......... You just keep leaning in this hobby.


"This hobby is a continuing education"
Looking for Walther Model 8 #727649
and Walther PP #975557
#164438 07/07/2009 10:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
BTT to keep alive

#164439 11/03/2009 05:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
'Ein kleiner Vogel kam geflogen ! '
This little bird landed in my hands at a small local militaria show this Sunday .

MVC-030S.JPG (45.67 KB, 212 downloads)
#164440 11/03/2009 05:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and it's backside .

MVC-031S.JPG (38.91 KB, 207 downloads)
#164441 11/03/2009 05:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
As you can see from the cut into the backing material at the joint of the wing (-- the backing to be folded over to be stitched onto the tunic ) and the stitch holes ,
---this eagle ACTUAL had been sewn to a tunic !

MVC-035S.JPG (65.75 KB, 365 downloads)
#164442 11/03/2009 05:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,809
..and one more shot showing the cuts at the wing joint .

MVC-036S.JPG (43.28 KB, 358 downloads)
#164443 12/13/2009 11:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
S
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
WSP in action:

wasserschutzpolizeiaust.jpg (53.91 KB, 331 downloads)
#164444 12/14/2009 12:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Very cool photo.Almost looks like a gun turrent ahead of the crew compartment. Interesting choice of flag....a state service flag? Nice spotlight too.

Bill Unland

#164445 12/15/2009 07:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
All these items are rare and hard to find today.
I just recently missed out on a near mint WSP Aluminum buckle dated 1938 with the original belt.

Been wanting an original dagger with the grip emblem forever. But seems most all of them have been "modified" or questionable. Wanted a textbook example...finally...as though a dream come true..one has become aviliable that has met my criteria for this rare model. It's on it's way to me now.
Can't wait. I'll share it with you when it arrives.

-serge-

#164446 12/16/2009 03:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 22
Offline
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 22
Serge,

The piece you're referring to wouldn't have been the one off Eban a week ago, would it?


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
#164447 12/16/2009 03:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
Yes, Billy it was.

-serge-

#164448 12/17/2009 02:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 22
Offline
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 22
Serge,

I could tell that Alcoso was a winner all the way. Well done!


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
#164449 12/19/2009 02:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Hi Bill. That is an interesting photo. The state service flag was the standard banner for all police buildings, camps, etc., so it was appropriate to show it on a vessel. It wouldn't have had a license plate. I wonder what is on the jack-staff at the bow? Do you think that circular thing that looks like a gun mount was an engine access area? The ship was inboard, as you can see the engine cooling water discharging out the side below and in front of the policemen standing at the con.


"This hobby is a continuing education"
Looking for Walther Model 8 #727649
and Walther PP #975557
#164450 12/20/2009 02:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
Billy....it finally flew in today.
I been wanting to find one of these for years that was "texbook" and unmolested (improved by well meaning collector/s). Along with the Army dagger that the Vet brought back it looks to me the last person who put on the hangers on the scabbard was the German.
This WPP dagger made my Christmas.

-serge-



#164451 12/20/2009 02:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
Hangers seemed to have been shortened.


#164452 12/20/2009 02:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
The blue leather on this dagger and the way it is singed by the brass wire gives a marvelous appeal to this scarce model.

From my understanding this type of "Solid Police" emblem is considered textbook for this maker. Were is that "textbook" on these anyway? Razz
Don't know enough yet about varients. Info is hard to find.


#164453 12/20/2009 02:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1

#164454 12/20/2009 02:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 22
Offline
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 22
Serge,

A stunner. If not me, at least it landed in the hands of someone who can appreciate it. Well done.


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
#164455 12/20/2009 03:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Serge:

Nice!

The AWS mark makes it a rather late in the game production, which make it even better. Most of us have never seen one of these outside of 'textbooks', and to actually have a full rig like that, amazing. Who says that e-ban is just junk?

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
#164456 12/20/2009 05:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
Thanks Billy and John.

I've run across some scarce daggers in the past but not this model. Just going on that it's got to be scarce.

-serge-



#164457 12/21/2009 06:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Serge - it's a Real Beauty(!) CONGRATS!

Can you take a foto the finial / cap piece? I'd read something about the 'cat tails' on these, but I admittedly know very little about this rarely seen WSP Dagger.

Good Going on acquiring this Super Dagger for your fine collection. ...Dave/dblmed


[Always looking for TeNo � Schuma � Technische Noodhulp Items...]
#164458 12/21/2009 01:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
Thanks Dave!

It was a long wait but I'm very pleased. Smile

Regards,
-serge-



Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
A few sleeve NCO eagles:

3wsp.jpg (41.32 KB, 277 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Officer's cap eagle, heavily padded and a size comparison with a metal cap eagle, and sleeve eagle:

wsp.jpg (46.8 KB, 277 downloads)
wsp2.jpg (10.85 KB, 275 downloads)
wsp3.jpg (48.63 KB, 275 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
"Naval style" WSP NCO schirmmutze:

front.jpg (85.79 KB, 366 downloads)
quarter.jpg (76.41 KB, 367 downloads)
intop.jpg (94.92 KB, 366 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
NCO sidecap:

WSPfront.jpg (90.27 KB, 365 downloads)
WSPside.jpg (85.62 KB, 363 downloads)
WSPin.jpg (95.12 KB, 365 downloads)
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
J
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
real nice to see all this nice stuff on the water protection police. You know ,there is more photos right here than in ANY book on this service!!!! If anyone here has time to kill , how about doing a book , with help from these contributors ???
I own a jacket , which IF I can get my camera to co-oporate with me & if I can dig the coat out , I will put up. my coat went from the vet to a family friend ,to my father & to me on x-mas morning in 1984. was in high school then. thank god I still have it over the years.
AND my father still kicking himself for giving to to me....
mine is a little diffrent..... actually states wasserschutpolizie above the sleeve eagle.
which I have yet to see here. man you guys are going to make me dig it out..... jeff h.

jeff #227375 09/03/2010 07:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
J
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
hoping I have put a photo here. jeff h.

HPIM0001.JPG (73.89 KB, 312 downloads)
jeff #227376 09/03/2010 07:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
J
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
the shoulder rank....

HPIM0004.JPG (87.06 KB, 311 downloads)
jeff #227377 09/03/2010 07:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
J
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
sleeve eagle with the name !

HPIM0002.JPG (115.77 KB, 310 downloads)
jeff #227378 09/03/2010 07:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
J
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
some how it would not take the other photo of the uniform maker neck tag, "masschneiderei Wilh. Nasse, kiel. jeff h.

jeff #227379 09/03/2010 07:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Hello,

Thanks for posting.

The tunic is interesting. Is it cotton? The shoulder boards look good, but the tunic should have sleeve braid. Any evidence of there ever being any applied? Any maker or issue stamps inside?

Unfortunately, NCO sleeve eagles were never named.

These tunics are EXTREMELY rare, and most were rebadged and used after the war.

The sleeve eagle you show is indeed one generally considered to be a reproduction, sorry. That does not mean the tunic is bad. I have never seen a WSP tunic offered for sale with a good eagle. They are just too rare.

Regards,
William Unland

Last edited by W.Unland; 09/03/2010 07:33 AM.
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
J
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
william, thanks. no noticable braid removal. no other markings noticed (I'll look again). surprized on the patch, as I havenot seen any like it for sale. ussually repros run in large groups to notice. it will stay till further notice. question ; why do these boards have yellow under lay, as most here seem to have blue ????. might it all be post war ?(afraid to ask...) even the intertwined cords are yellow. jeff h.

jeff #227387 09/03/2010 10:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
Here is the more typical version of the reproduction sleeve eagle. I have seen it with "Wasserschutzpolizei" in the past but never saved the photo.

Regards,
Bill Unland

bad5b.jpg (21.7 KB, 298 downloads)
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 527
J
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 527
Shoulder board posted in #91 is afterwar German Wasserschutzpolizei right shoulder board (Land is unknown - perhaps Schleswig-Holstein).
Wartime shoulder boards must have interwoven yellow "V"s in silver cording...

Last edited by Jiri Libal sr.; 11/03/2010 07:22 PM.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Here is a photo of a RevOblt der SW tunic and visor. The trousers are KM and the shirt and tie K-Mart.In this instance he is wearing his SS-Polizei Fuhrerdegen. His tunic is a five row double-breasted example. George's in this thread has four rows.

The tress on the cuffs are machine sewn per regulations.

Shoulder board shows the dark blue Nebenfarbe of the Kriegsoffizier.

No rear buttons of course.


"This hobby is a continuing education"
Looking for Walther Model 8 #727649
and Walther PP #975557
SiPo #298421 06/14/2014 04:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 13
M
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: graham hanson

Rawme is not Rovinj.
The German name for Rovinj was Rivin or Ruwein, depending on the source.
The writing on the Dienstpass might correctly read i/RAHME (im Rahme , ie with the boundaries of).
Very interesting document, by the way.
MP

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,429
Offline
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,429
Here's a photo I found online of a captured boat.

William Kramer

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,259,163 SS Bayonets
1,758,847 Teno Insignia Set
1,126,631 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
SS Partial Rohm Authenticity?
by GenesPicks - 02/19/2024 05:01 PM
Bill for... Herrn Hitler
by benten - 02/18/2024 04:45 PM
The 'P' word !
by Gaspare - 02/17/2024 07:10 PM
Opinions on SS M7/81
by RBlue - 02/17/2024 03:48 AM
Latest New Posts
Allentown or SOS
by sellick8302@rogers.com - 02/20/2024 12:47 AM
Opinions on SS M7/81
by sellick8302@rogers.com - 02/20/2024 12:44 AM
SS Partial Rohm Authenticity?
by Dave - 02/19/2024 10:53 PM
FANTASY Rings
by Gaspare - 02/18/2024 10:54 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,618
Posts328,264
Members7,481
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
6 members (BretVanSant, Paul, Trofim, Evgeniy, The_Collector, Documentalist), 383 guests, and 268 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5