UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons German Sword & Miniatures Forum ss officer sword portepee

I was wondering if there was any relevance to the length of a portepee on a ss officer sword as shown on page 373 of Wittmann's ss book.
Thanks in advance for any input.

Some were shortened by the owners IMO for whatever reason--damage or they may have thought they looked better shortened. Others have been post war shortened to remove broken or damaged portions of the strap. Difficult to tell if its a good job. You might notice that you almost never see one for sale with a badly damaged strap. I don't think they were ever issued that way-however most anything could be special ordered from the factory IMO.

Hello Houston,
I could observe two remarkable differing lengths of these SSofficers degen portepees. In period pics you can see them both (long and short variant) attached to SSdegens. You, imo, easily can identify them the way they are attached to the degen.
On the other hand I have seen period photographs were such officers portepees have been worn on a bajonet(frog). Attached at such a frog would not need such a length like proper attached to a degen.
My personal theory would be that the short ones at least originally (in the early times) were thought for bajonets and the long ones for degens. For some period, when the long variant was not available for whatever reason, the short variant also was delivered (or used) for degens.
Just an idea or theorie (do have no proof) due to what I could observe in period pics.
From time to time I could observe some short ones with heavy fraying on shows.
Regards,

I own a very early "Krebs" degen with all nickel-silver fittings, the "police badge" trademark and "square" handguard. It is absolutely "out of the woodwork" and has an original-to-the-sword short portepee with cloth tag (431/35). I suspect the early portepees may have been the shorter variety and may have been later lengthened to more conform with portepees of other services. I can see no evidence that the strap was shortened, but that does not mean it wasn't. It is difficult to say with certainty whether there were two "issue" lengths. However, a short portepee, especially of earlier manufacture, is "correct" for all intents and purposes.

I agree that the short ones are correct but IMO were never issued that way. If you look at the photos of the early silver SS sabers in wear--as far as I know--all the knots are long--and they are the first ones issued ---before the degen was ever made. So--when you find a short knot with a 34 or 35 dated tag, IMO it was first used with the saber and was IMO at one time--long. Also it seems that all or most of the short ones have this early tag.
Also--the NCO black and white knot with runes is always long as far as I know and was only allowed ( according to regulations at least ) to be worn with the saber or bayonet-never with the NCO degen which IMO was reserved only for senior NCOs who wore the Officer knot--- which always seems also to be long.
So IMO some Officers who could get by with it opted to wear a special order short knot ( only seen on the degen to my knowledge ) or altered it themselves because of damage.

In Angolias book cloth insignia of the ss on page 169 you see Himmler with a short version and ss graduates with the longer versions.
On page 72 there is 2 ss generals with short versions.Also in wittmanns book on page 367 you see ss generals w/Hitler with the short versions.
Does anyone know of any in wear photo's of the short version worn by a lower rank ss officer.
Thanks for the input and theories.