Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
SCHUMA Cloth Items fill a kind of mystical niche for me. They are just beautiful & artistic.

My limited understanding of the Schuma Organization, is that they were essentially Non-Germanic Members serving the Sipo/SD in occupied areas (outside of Germany). Primarily in the Baltics and Ukraine. (They filled the manpower void in these areas.) There were German Officers in the ultimate control - but did they wear SCHUMA Cloth? Don't know. The Cloth Items are nothing short of exquisite, with fine machine embroidery & colors. The SCHUMA Motto of "Faithfullness, Bravery & Obedience" is found on the Patches. I got lucky and found 2 sets of Shoulder Boards & 3 Patches. Txs, Dave / dblmed

1-SHUMA-Boards-F-W.jpg (94.18 KB, 834 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
SCHUMA Shoulder Boards .... Reverse

2-SHUMA-Boards-R-W.jpg (90.52 KB, 828 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
The Quality of the SCHUMA Patches is some of the best TR Cloth Items. Here are all 3 together.

3-SHUMA-3-Patches-W.jpg (91.11 KB, 806 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
SCHUMA EM Patch (If incorrect, please correct meSmile Dave / dblmed

SHUMA-EM-Patch-W.jpg (88.24 KB, 803 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
SCHUMA OFFICER Patch (If incorrect, please correct meSmile Dave / dblmed

SHUMA-Off-Patch-W.jpg (85.62 KB, 788 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
SCHUMA EM Patch - I believe I incorrectly labeled the NCO, as EM previously. (If incorrect, please correct meSmile Dave / dblmed

SHUMA-Orange-Patch-W.jpg (93.31 KB, 799 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
I apologize for the 'too large' Images - as I am still fighting the PhotoShop battle. Image Kb size is not a problem, but the L X W Dimensions is a challenge.

(1) What size Images (L X W) do you find is the best for Posting & Viewing?

I'd imagine that SHUMA Uniforms are very Rare - as these locals didn't have anywhere to go ....as the Wehrmacht regrouped from previously held territories! Would be nice to see some SHUMA Uniforms... Txs, Dave / dblmed


[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,048
Likes: 255
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,048
Likes: 255
Dave, the orange was for the Gendarmerie branch. I know a Ukrainian man that said he was around where the Shuma were being trained [ Roll Eyes he was probably a member but still afraid to admit it]. He said things were moving so fast that no soon than the insignia was available,distributed,worn units were being dismantled and reorganized as other units.
I had showed him the OSPREY 'Partisan Warfare' book a few years ago. He said the only insig. he saw being worn for a short while were the green piped boards and the black and silver / grey arm patches. He mentioned it didn't matter if silver or gray, you got what they gave you.

I agree,they're beautiful insignia.,sometimes being very hard to collect. For me, a full badged up, original Shuma jacket is way rarer than a SS jacket...

Don't apologize, the photos are fine..Thanks for showing the pieces.....

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Dave,

I agree with Gaspare that these are very nice insignia. Schuma guys wore a mixed bag of uniforms and insignia. Probably due to shortages as Gaspare says. Photos often show Schuma wearing no shoulder boards or mixed insignia within the same unit. One thing that I have noticed about Schuma shoulder boards is that they use the wide tongue like Heer boards instead of the narrow tongue like police boards. This would make them difficult to fit onto police tunics that had a narrow loop for the shoulder boards so this may help to explain the lack of boards in wear in photographs. Usually, photographs show them wearing standard SIPO or ORPO uniforms with Schuma insignia to distinguish them.

I think Gaspare is correct that orange and green were supposed to differentiate units in the police color scheme but I think that the grey sleeve insignia predominated toward the end of the war. I think their building-up outstripped the ability to supply them uniformly.

I hope this helps.


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 518
Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 518
Dave, these are indeed very nice boards! Might i ask did you get them from a dealer or did you find them in the woodwork? I only ask because i hardly find any TR police item outside of dealers especially in Texas Wink

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Thanks Gaspare, OPRO & Legion for your updates .....

I do enjoy these beautiful Cloth pieces. (I think I even mispelled SCHUMA as SHUMA, so pardon for that.)

I bought the two sets of Boards from the 'Duck' Bill Shea a few years ago & got the 3 patches from other Dealers (? names) along the way, but haven't Posted them previously. I keep an eye out for Schuma cloth .... but they don't seem to come up too very often. So, when you see one you have to move on it - or it's gone! I've seen a smaller 'Cap Patch' which seems to be a smaller version of the Sleeve Patches, but haven't connected on one yet. Txs, Dave / dblmed


[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,889
Likes: 2
R
Offline
R
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,889
Likes: 2
Dave, great insignia from another under appreciated organization. I only have a hat badge and 1 collar tab. thanks for showing them.

MVC-001S.JPG (39.79 KB, 711 downloads)
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,889
Likes: 2
R
Offline
R
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,889
Likes: 2
Reverse.

MVC-002S.JPG (39.71 KB, 704 downloads)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Raymond .....You have some Really Great Schuma Cloth Items + they are 2 of the examples that I don't have as - yet! (Maybe we need to merge up Collections?)

I've seen the Cap / Hat Eagle Patch - but the Collar Tabs are quite unusual to find. Good Going! I'm hoping that you or Doug will pull out a Schuma Uniform to Post!
Txs, Dave / dblmed


[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,048
Likes: 255
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,048
Likes: 255

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Gaspare ....C'est Manifique, N'est-ce pas? WOW - the Schuma Full Tunic & Cap that Pablo posted in 2005 is quite magnificent. (Great research in locating the Thread!).

The Schuma Uniform really nicely shows the Boards and Patches in place - with the addition of the DJ/HJ modified cap. Hopefully Pablo will join in and add his additional insight into Schuma? Txs, Dave / dblmed


[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Dave,

Here is my one and only Schuma tunic that I have had for a long time. It is a standard police field tunic with mouse grey Polizei collar litzen and a Schuma sleeve insignia all machine sewn on. It has no shoulder boards and the shoulder board buttons have been carefully removed. Of course it is impossible to tell when the sleeve insignia was sewn on. The lining is the same style as on Pablo's tunic.

SCHUMA_tunic.JPG (22.47 KB, 672 downloads)

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
The tunic is standard late police issue and the collar tabs are standard late police litzen.

SCHUMA_collar_tab.JPG (36.68 KB, 656 downloads)

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
The Schuma sleeve insignia is the "officer" style flatwire type and there does not seem to be the "ghost" of a regular police sleeve eagle. Of course, it is impossible to know when this insignia was sewn on as the tunic is probably unissued or only very lightly worn at best.

George

SCHUMA_sleeve_insig.JPG (36.31 KB, 655 downloads)

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
ORPO .....What an outstanding Schuma Uniform. Congrats!!! From looking at the 'machine sewn' Schuma Sleeve Patch & the nice condition of the Uniform - I'd guess that the Uniform was kitted out in a large supply depot area - not in the field for sure! That one is a keeper.

Only by chance, I just acquired 2 Schuma Officers Collar Tabs. The Collar tabs are attributed to the Ukrainian Schuma.
This would be for the rank of Brigadefuhrer or Major. These are both for the left collar - so maybe someone has the 2 right Collar TabsSmile. Txs, Dave / dblmed

FRONT of Brigadefuhrer Schuma Tabs......

Schuma_Lt_Collar_Tabs-1.jpg (81.19 KB, 628 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
REVERSE of Brigadefuhrer Schuma Tabs..

Schuma_Lt_Collar_Tabs-2.jpg (55.46 KB, 614 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Posted for a fellow Schuma Collector, Tom Pearcy

"I have a pair of Orange Piped Police Green Boards with Orange Swastikas.
& the Orange Gendarmerie Schuma Sleeve Patch

The Orange are a tad bit longer then my Green Piped Black Boards,
& the Green Schuma (Police) Sleeve Patch.

Could be for an Overcoat or for larger size tunic?"

(Isnt the Orange contrasting color just a Fantastic Combination?)
Txs, Dave/dblmed)

FRONT of Tom's Shoulder Tabs & Sleeve Patches

Schuma-Orange-Insignia-1w.jpg (90.22 KB, 583 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Posted for Tom Pearcy #2

REVERSE of the Above Items

Schuma-Orange-Insignia-2w.jpg (89.68 KB, 581 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Some SCHUMA BACKGROUND: With the invasion of Russia on June 22ND 1941 the German army quickly occupied large tracts of territory resulting in ever extending rear areas that required policing to maintain order amongst the population and to secure open transportation and communication lines to the front.

Originally the army had established small auxiliary police units for these purposes which were followed by SS action groups.

The territories occupied proved to be too large for these small auxiliary units to police effectively which resulted in recruitment of local anti-Communist personnel which were formed into Schuma, short for Schutzmannschaften, (Protection Troops), units in November 1941.

The Schuma personnel fell under the control of the regional Hhere SS und Polizeifhrer, (Higher SS and Police Leader). These Schuma personnel wore a wide variety of uniforms, headgear and insignia including surplus black Allgemeine-SS uniforms, and assorted field-grey and police green items.

In June 1942 distinctive cap and sleeves emblems were introduced for Schuma personnel to distinguish them from Ordnungspolizei, (Order Police), personnel.

Text is Courtesy of: http://www.Germanmilitaria.com

You Advanced guys may be aware of All of this, but the Date of implementation of Schuma 'Cloth' was new info. for me.
Txs, Dave/dblmed


[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
GREEN BORDERED COLLAR TABS

Schuma Collar Tabs (?)

Here is a set of purported to be Schuma Collar Tabs, which I incidentally missed out on getting - on ManionsEek - about 2 years back.

I doubted them at that time - BUT from all that I have read & learned since,the Schuma guys had to scrounge for their Uniforms & Equipment. (Often, it was a mis match of Cloth).

So...... these could have been 'field made' - for Schuma .... using the 2 Cap Schuma Patches and other Collar Tabs, bordered in Police Green. (Theory seems OK.... but.....)

Have Any of you advanced Schuma collectors ever seen these types of Tabs?

Txs, Dave/dblmed

Schuma-Collar-Tabs-GreenW.jpg (83.51 KB, 564 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Dave,

Nice insignia you posted.

I think you did well to "miss" buying the last set of collar tabs. I believe they are fake fantasy tabs made from fake cap insignia. I suspect these are from the same source as the fantasy Police Panzer collar tabs of the same style with Pz skulls in the center. I saw a set of these sell on Manions for good money but I would not give a thin dime for a set. I have never seen a period photo of anything like these in wear and they are certainly not regulation collar tabs.


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Thanks ORPO......

I will defer to your Keen Eyes & Depth of Experience on these types of items. Thanks for the assessment. Dave/dblmed


[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
I got Lucky and found this really Bright RED Machine Embroidered SCHUMA Sleeve Emblem.

(Other Schuma Sleeve Emblems seem to be BeVo, so I don't know if this RED is a recognized variant? It is on 'Police Green' Wool)

(This RED is really a brighter shade than a usual Fire Eagle. You could see him coming from a mile away!)

I Also picked up a nice Schutzmannschaften / Schuma Dog Tag to accompany it.

FRONT ..Txs, Dave/dblmed

Schuma-RED_Dog-Tag-F-W.jpg (98.57 KB, 478 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
REVERSE ..Txs, Dave/dblmed

(I'll make them Smaller next time!!!)

Schuma-RED_Dog-Tag-R-W.jpg (96.25 KB, 471 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
I found this SCHUMA uniform assemblage on a Russian site.

From http://ukr-ww2.onestop.net/schuma.html Dave/dblmed

1-Schuma-Unif-W.jpg (92.06 KB, 457 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Another GREAT Schuma Uniform from this site....

The man on the FAR Right...

Notice he is wearing a TENO (Technische Nothilfe) Hewer? Strange, but Oh so interesting. ......Dave/dblmed

2-Schuma_w_TeNo_Hewer-67.jpg (53.76 KB, 360 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Also shown was a Schuma Cap with the BLACK Smaller Schuma patch on it. Dave/dblmed

3-Cap_w_schuma_5.jpg (4.95 KB, 357 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Some more great Schuma history, for those of us who have forgotten it.

SD, AND POLICE / SCHUMA BATTALIONS
-----------------------------------------------------------------

With the appointment of SS General von dem Bach-Zelewski as Coordinator of Anti-Partizan in the East, a variety of security formations were beginning to emerge.

As early as 1941, these security formations were beginning to be diluted with Baltic and Ukrainian recruits. These units were supervised by the SS Police and SD/SS Security Staff. In Ukraine and the Baltic provinces all these scattered units were formed into an auxiliary police force known as the Schuetzmannschaft Ordungspolizei (Schuma). The units were either divided into Front or Guard Units. Although the SS and Police operated within Army-administered areas, the Army had its own security formations, known as Security Divisions.

When the Germans split up and conquered Poland in 1939. Large areas were incorporated directly into the Reich, while other lands inocrporated into Reichskommissariats of Ostland (Baltic States and Belarus) and Ukaraine. The repressive german policy towards the Poles led to creation of Ukrainian-Galician police force for the Galicia District. Twelve Schuma Battalions were organized: 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212.

With the rize of partizan warfare, the main duties of such Schuma battalions were to seek out and destroy the Soviet Partizans. Each battalion had a staff and four 124 man companies, each with one machine gun platoon and three infantry platoons; totalling 700 man. The battalions varied from Frontline, Guard, Engineer, Construction and Replacement Battalions deployed along the Army Group Rear Areas. The SD also included Schuma forces (Schuetzmannschaft der Sicherheitspolizei). A number of home guard organisations (SB - Sluzhba Bezpeky / Selbstschuetz) were also created.

Ukrainians joined the German-sponsored forces in large numbers, and in late 1942, 70,000 were in the Schuma, becoming one of the largest Schuma forces. About 35,00 served in 71 Schuma Batallions: 51, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 61, 62, 63, 101, 111, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 129, 130, 131, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 143 to 169. These battalions included some Cossack, cavalry and artillery units. Home Guards were disignated as the Ukrainian National Self-Defence Force (UNS) and had up to 180,000 man. When in 1944 the Red Army overrun Ukraine, these units were transfered to Ukrainian Self-Defence Legion and others had joined the 14th and 30th divisions of Waffen SS.
From http://ukr-ww2.onestop.net/schuma.html Dave/dblmed


[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
SCHUMA UNIFORMS - 1941 & 1942 & 1943+

It is very interesting to see the MARKED Schuma Uniform Transition from:

1941 - 'Red Army' Uniform Like in 1941,
1942 - to a 'Mixed Czarist Partisan' Look in 1942,
1943 + to the 'Germanic' familiar SCHUMA Uniform of 1943+

Courtesy the Russian Book by Partizany & Karateli (in Russian)
Txs, Dave/dblmed

Schuma-Unif-41,42,43-W.jpg (91.36 KB, 346 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Dave,

These are copies of the plates in the Osprey series of books. Do not take them too literally as they are simply artist drawings. I wonder if the Russian authors paid a royalty for use of these pictures and text or simply reprinted them?


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
ORPO ...Thanks, I knew that I'd seen the Color Plate with the numbered 'Uniform' Items somewhere before, but couldn't place it. (Then it shows up with Cyrillic writing? Go figure...)

Yes, Schuma 'Uniforms' seem to be a mixed bag of whatever cloth 'was available' or 'was leftover' for the use of the Eastern units. I've read that even some stripped Allgemeine SS Uniforms we shipped to the Baltics / Schuma units. I guess the only real 'solid' evidence is period Photos. Txs, Dave/dblmed


[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155
Likes: 5
Dave,

The black tunics and greatcoats were surplus Allg.-SS uniforms that were altered by putting the green collar and cuffs on them. Most of the green uniforms were standard police issue with Schuma insignia. There was also a healthy mix of captured and adapted uniforms for Eastern Volunteers.

This stuff is not for the faint of heart collector.

Wink


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
V
Offline
V
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
Here are a couple of pictures from a magazine called Militaria volume 1 # 1 in 1969

m1.jpg (31.14 KB, 314 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
V
Offline
V
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
#2

g3.jpg (60.76 KB, 314 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
V
Offline
V
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
#3

g4.jpg (41.25 KB, 311 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
V
Offline
V
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 447
Last is my set of 5 uncut ones Paul

g2.jpg (21.9 KB, 307 downloads)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Vigs 48 ...... More GREAT Information on the Schuma! (and from 1969 to boot!)

Some of those same Photos are used on the Russian site that I referenced.

Your 5 uncut light Green Schuma's are incredible! That Color is a very hard one to find even one example of, and you have 5! Good Going Paul... Dave/dblmed


[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
DaveJ (WAF) has a very nice cross sectional Schuma Cloth Collection of Patches, Shoulder Boards & a Collar Tab. He has allowed me to Post them here, and to share these Items with us.

From DaveJ Collection ............. Txs, Dave/dblmed

All_Patches.jpeg (92.57 KB, 297 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
A very Nice BLACK Schuma Bullion Sleeve Patch.

From DaveJ Collection ............. Txs, Dave/dblmed

FRONT

Black_Bullion-F.jpeg (82.88 KB, 294 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Backside of the very Nice BLACK Schuma Bullion Sleeve Patch.

Shows a fine 'zig zag' stitching around the borders.

From DaveJ Collection ............. Txs, Dave/dblmed

REVERSE

Black_Bullion-R.jpeg (61.16 KB, 288 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Schuma OFFICER'S Boards - 2 Variations-TOPS

With the help of a friend (HK), and his keen eyes, I have
been able to match up my mis-matched Schuma OFFICER'S Boards.
They look pretty much the same on the top side - but -.
...... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Schuma-1-Tops.jpg (99.69 KB, 234 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Schuma OFFICER'S Boards - 2 Variations-REVERSE

(The shiney Bullion didn't show up well in the above Photos, but it's there.)

But on the reverse, we see that they have 2 different types of fabric used.
So the Boards must have been made by different makers, or at different times.
Interesting variations. Txs ...... Dave/dblmed

Schuma-1-Reverse.jpg (106.14 KB, 238 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
RED / CARMINE Schuma Boards-TOPS

Maybe this red is really Carmine? Looks pretty red though to me. I found 2 Red / Carmine sleeve patches which seem to match up with them, 1 used and 1 unissued. Txsm Dave/dblmed

Schuma-2-Carmine-Tops.jpg (69.23 KB, 236 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
RED? / CARMINE Schuma Boards-REVERSE

Reverse... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Schuma-RED-BDS-_-Patch-R-sm.jpg (97.95 KB, 235 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Green Schuma Boards w White Swastika-TOP

Green Schuma Boards w White Swastika - I have found these in 2 variations also (so probably there are even more variants!) TOP side. Txs, ....Txs, Dave/dblmed

White_Swaz___Green_TOPS.jpg (93.38 KB, 229 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Green Schuma Boards w White Swastika-REVERSE

Green Schuma Boards w White Swastika - Flip them over, and 2 different fabric types are seen again. Txs, ....Dave/dblmed

White_Swaz___Green_REV.jpg (109.05 KB, 218 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Green Schuma Boards w Light Green Swastika-TOP

Green Schuma Boards w Light Green Swastika (Like in the roll of 5 which VIGS showed us), I knew existed from the prior posting.

But the MEDIUM - DARK GREEN sleeve patch is a new one to me. I have seen the lighter green (Lime Green) Schuma patch, but Not a Dark Green SCHUPO colored patch. Has anyone seen this one before?

Why would the Schuma use Light Green and also Dark Green?
(But, then again,

the Schuma used a Lighter Green Piped Shoulder Boards with WHITE Thread Swastika,
and
they used a MED - DARK Green Piped Shoulder Boards with GREEN Thread Swastika

So, there must be a 'logical' reason for the 2 Green colors. Txs,Dave/dblmed
Attached Images

Green_Swaz___MED_Green_Patch.jpg (69.21 KB, 220 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Green Schuma Boards w Light Green Swastika-REVERSE

Reverse... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Green_Swaz___MED_Green_Patch-R.jpg (84.27 KB, 219 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
MEDIUM - DARK Green Schuma Sleeve Patch

This patch is a beauty - and it really is a Medium to Dark Green -
NOT the Lime Green, which I have seen previously (and as is shown in VIGS Post)! Txs, Dave/dblmed

Schuma_DK_GREEN_Patch.jpg (90.39 KB, 219 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 136
Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 136
Fantastic pieces Dave! Where did you pick up the pink and green boards? Was this a recent find?

P.S. My only set of em Schuma boards are actually missmatched and show two variations as well - one has a black velvety material (like most of them), the other is made from course black cotton like material (some times we find late ss tabs made from such material).

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Askold, I picked up the pink and the green Swastika boards recently from a friend who is kindly a 'Schuma and TeNo' hunter for me at mid west shows. Item from both organizations are to be found, but it takes a lot of hunting... and some good luck along the way.

Schuma Boards backing materials (flaps) - from looking at a number of Shoulder Boards, I believe that there are at least 3 variations:

  • Co**** Black (cotton like material)
  • Light (satin like material)
  • Medium-Dark (also satin like material)

    Perhaps the variations are due to different makers, or having been made at different times?

    ... Txs, Dave/dblmed


  • [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    What a great find! I managed to get one silver and one orange board some time ago and still hoping to find green and pink ones.

    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Middle Green & Lime Green Schuma Patches

    I just got in 2 Lime Green Schuma Patches (after a loooong search for one!)

    When I compared them to the Middle Green Schuma patch shown previously, I was struck by some notable differences!

    The Middle Green Schuma patch is
    Definitely smaller than the 'standard' size Lime Green (& Orange & others)
    Is Round, where the others are the 'standard' Oval shape

    It came out of a long term Schuma collection, so that is a bit of comfort;
    The construction is identical - material & stitching - also comforting;
    I haven't seen another like it (although other Collectors may have)
    In hand inspection, it looks right and feels right...

    But, I don't know it's purpose in the Schuma scheme of things?

    We do see the 2 variations of Green Schuma Shoulder Boards - so, perhaps this may account for the Middle Green Schuma patch? ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

    Schuma_2-Green-Shades-F3.jpg (55.47 KB, 153 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Reverse

    Schuma_2-Green-Shades-R1.jpg (57.43 KB, 153 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Very interesting comparison of the Schuma patches Dave. I believe that it could be just a variation or the smaller one could be a try out set that got produced and later replaced by the standard oval ones. If you nottice there is also variation in the boards as well. Some are more longer, while others are shorter and more pointier. I suspect that the longer boards were meant for overcoats. Here is two of my boards:

    schuma1.jpg (45.12 KB, 145 downloads)
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Just wanted to add few immages to this great thread:

    A Soldbuch for Ukrainia Schutzmanshaft:



    Sometimes not every unit would wear typical Schuma uniforms. Here is major from one of Ukrainian battalions. He is wearing WH? boards, trident cockades and old Ukrainian republic medal bar.



    Ukrainians and Germans at Zarig Schuma outpost:


    Belarussian schuma members. Note a rare black M-43 cap:


    Winter headgear variation:


    Ukrainian schuma wearing captured British ? pot helmets:


    Lithuanian schuma, police and TLR members:

    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    My mistake, the captured helmet is not British but Dutch M-18


    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Few more interesting pics:

    Ukrainian shuma (foto from the net). Note the Allgemeine side cap - the eagle is continued to be worn, but the skull button appears to be replaced with regular button.


    Belorussian shuma from Bobrujsk, instead of swastika wreatsh they are wearing standard police cap insignia:


    Belorussian shuma funeral in Minsk. Note the use of captured Soviet Sh-36 helmets:


    Schuma graduates from Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia attend a trip/conf erence in Germany:

    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    ASKOLD ... Many Thanks(!) Amazing Photos...

    Your Photos are some of the most interesting (and certainly amongst the rarest!) period Photos of the Schuma / Schutzmannschaften men.

    The diversity of uniform types & the "mix-&-match" of caps, visors, collar tabs, shoulder boards & sleeve patches - seems to show that the Schuma were outfitted with 'whatever' was locally availale!

    So many of the Schuma are wearing the Allegemine SS Black uniforms - with altered collars, pocket flaps and sleeve cuffs! (Some authors show the alterations as a type of "Police Green" usually, but other colors seem to have been used - again, probably due to availability of suitable cloth.)
    Just such a Schuma uniform is now for sale on the estand at WAF, and has been discussed.)

    Askold, your WebSite www.galiciadivision.com is Exceptional(!)

    It has phenomenal wealth of knowledge / Photos on the Schuma, and on SS Galacia and other Ukrainian formations. A GREAT Historical site! Thanks for taking the time to create it, and to then keep it updated.

    Thanks for adding a great deal to the knowledge base regarding the Schuma! You need to write a book about the Ukrainian formations! - (both in English & in Ukrainian!) ... Txs, Dave/dblmed


    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    G
    Offline
    G
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    Here's the English lang. version

    http://ssgalicia.onestop.net/main.html


    *

    Joined: Nov 2002
    Posts: 743
    J
    Offline
    J
    Joined: Nov 2002
    Posts: 743
    I would also add something - here are two ID tags (KM size) and "cross" found with one them by my colleague.

    Jan

    schumas_001_res.jpg (65.03 KB, 263 downloads)
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Gaspare - Yes, the English section is a bit easier to read, than the Ukrainian. BUT, there are great PHOTOS throughout the Site, so checking it ALL out, is very informative.

    Jan - what fascinating Schuma ID Tags & the 'SS EK' made to be worn around the neck. Schuma items seem to turn up the unexpected. Txs, Dave/dblmed


    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Dave:

    All I can say is thank you for the compliments! Smile Here is one more photo from my collection - early Belarussian Shuma. No special collars or cuffs or any insignia were ever worn.

    vol7.jpg (99.79 KB, 252 downloads)
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    G
    Offline
    G
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    I have a bunch items ,mostly gifts, from my travels to East Europe.. Here's a pair of boards and arm patch..

    DSCN3719.JPG (73.45 KB, 238 downloads)
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Although not really Schuma, but still very interesting photo to add to the foreign police volunteers thread. Ukrainian police band from General Gouvernment. Note the "swallows nests"! The guy in the middle is also wearing Petliura Cross - an award issued to Ukrainian vets who fought against the Russians in 1918. All other orchestra members are also wearing their police badges.

    ukrainian_police_orchestra_3.JPG (92.29 KB, 225 downloads)
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Simon Petliura Cross


    Joined: Oct 2003
    Posts: 5,155
    Likes: 5
    Offline
    Joined: Oct 2003
    Posts: 5,155
    Likes: 5
    Excellent stuff!


    "You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Thanks Askold,

    More wonderful Schuma and Ukrainian Information and Items!

    Seeing the Ukrainian "Trident" on the Simon Petliura Cross (which I was previously not aware of!) is fascinating - as this "Trident" symbol must have a long history of use. ...Txs, Dave/dblmed


    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Offline
    Joined: Dec 2003
    Posts: 136
    Thanks guys! One more pic I came across:


    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Askold - Keep those Schuma photos & other Schuma items coming in! Super.

    I just got in a photo of 2 Schuma men. No writing on the back. Seller states that they are "Ukranian" Schuma from an album. I can't tell?

    The Photo Shows, IMO:

    the Schuma LT. sleeve patch (it is 'shiney' so perhaps that will narrow down the possible types.)
    Im Dienst Der Deutschen Polizei arm bands - NICE!
    Uniforms (& Schuma wore just about anything!) that look a bit like LUFT Tunics to me.
    (BUT... I am no authority on these.) One tunic has a flap pocket.
    Probable Polizei Type Collar Tabs (Patches)
    Unknown Shoulder Boards - too narrow for typical Schuma + no Swastika seen on them.
    2 different styles and sizes of leather belts.

    You may see other things that I missed! ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

    Schuma-wPatches_DeutPol-W.jpg (65.72 KB, 168 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Gaspare! ...Keep bringing back MORE of those really great items from your trips to the East!

    Plus, you may come across some Schuma Photos or Schuma Paper Items - it went 'underground' but there must be a lot which is still out there! Txs, Dave/dblmed


    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Discussion of the Above Photo

    Discussion of the Above Photo is best summed up as: "It seems to be [Schuma, used as] Luftschutzpolizei men, due to Fliegerblouses & special LSW/SHD [narrow] shoulder boards... by our friends, lbsr & Keith (www.hmsbrinmaric)." The Narrow Shoulder Boards would have been a Dark Green.

    Some LUFT Collectors have the opinion that perhaps Type 1 and Type 2 Luft Fliegerblouses are seen - i.e. the apparent absence of a pocket on the Schuma man on the Left. Perhaps, the case.


    The Many Colors of the Schuma The different Colors of the Schuma Sleeve Patches and Shoulder Boards remains an 'unknown' as no period Regs. or Documents have surfaced (Yet!). Perhaps Keith or Askold (or others) may have
    OFF-SB-2: Silver Piping & Silver Thread Swastika on Black Shoulder Boards = Officer.

    Officer - Schuma Sleeve Patches:
    OFF-SL-1: Silver Wire Thread - on Black Center/Background Sleeve Patch = Officer
    OFF-SL-2: All Silver Wire Thread Sleeve Patch on Green Background = Officer
    OFF-SL-3: Silver Bullion Patch on Black Background = Officer

    EM/NCO - Shoulder BOARDS:
    OFF-SB-1: Green Piping & White Thread Swastika on Black Shoulder Boards
    OFF-SB-2: Green Piping & Green Swastika on Green Shoulder Boards
    OFF-SB-3: Reddish/Carmine Piping & Reddish/Carmine Swastika on Green Shoulder Boards
    OFF-SB-4: Orange Piping w Orange Swastika on Green Shoulder Boards

    EM/NCO - Schuma Sleeve Patches:
    E/N-SL-1: All Greenish Thread w a Black Center & Background - on Green Background
    E/N-SL-2: All Lime Green Thread - on Green Background
    E/N-SL-3: All Medium Green Thread, as Circle not Oval on Green Background
    ...............(so far, this is a 1 of, so I am a bit uncertain, but seems Legit.)
    E/N-SL-4: All Orange (Bright!) Thread - on Green Background
    E/N-SL-5: Redish/Carmine Thread - on Green Background

    Field Cap / Side Cap Patches:
    OFF F/SC: Silver Wire on Black = Officer (there is Photo proof & collector's examples)
    E/N F/SC: White / Grey-White on Black = EM/NCO (there is Photo proof & collector's examples)

    (***) AND, there may well be other colors, Yet to be seen in other Collections!

    Meanings of Schuma Color Combinations for Boards & Patches:

    It is 'believed' but is not proven / documented (to my knowledge), that the Schuma used the standard Polizei color scheme, such that:

    (A) Orange = Schuma Gendarmerie-type functions

    (B) Reddish / Carmine = Schuma Fire / Feurschutz-type functions
    (Part of the basis for this Assumption is from: "In November 1941 Daluege issued a more detailed set of regulations. He identified the non-German urban and rural patrolmen (Einzeldienst) as well as all non-German firemen as part of the Schutzmannschaft. With respect to these changes, the Schutzmannschaft was largely a new term for older offices and functions, with the difference that all Schutzmannschaft men were clearly subordinated to German police authorities.
    There were also auxiliary Schutzmannschaft men who served on work details and
    carried out guard duties for the German police or the military." Link is Below

    (C) 'the' MANY SCHUMA Greens Boards & Patches = Different Polizei types of functions still Unknown, but could well have differentiated between some of the following:

    (IMO, Various "Green & Other Color Combination" Schuma 'Boards & Patches' would have been needed (IMO) - (to ID / Differentiate specific Units) since the Schuma / Schutzmannschaften duties / activities were so widely varied, and included:

    * General Policing of the Occupied Areas;
    * Luftschutz Activities;
    * Anti-Partisan Fighting;
    * Staffing of KLagers in Occupied Areas;
    * Guarding POW's;
    * Extermination of Jews & Other Groups;
    * Labor Groups;
    * Front line fighting against the Russians;
    * and probably many other activities.

    If you wish to learn MORE about the Schuma, this is a Super Link - SCHUMA Link:
    http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp....MVIuG&b=395183

    It has more DOCUMENTED Schuma information, than I've found elsewhere.
    Hopefully, this Information is helpful. . Txs, Dave/dblmed


    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma Officer's Field Cap-1

    I acquired this Field Cap just recently, and it was 'Vetted' out OK, by the boys of the ForumS.

    I'm very excited about it - since it's Schuma (#1) & for an Officer (#2)! ......... Txs, ...Dave/dblmed

    Schuma_OFF_Side_Cap-1.jpg (74.79 KB, 159 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma Officer's Field Cap-Front Right....

    Schuma Officer's Field Cap-2

    Schuma_OFF_Side_Cap-2.jpg (85.41 KB, 158 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma Officer's Field Cap-Front

    Schuma Officer's Field Cap-3

    Schuma_OFF_Side_Cap-3.jpg (83.96 KB, 153 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma Officer's Field Cap-4

    Schuma Officer's Field Cap Interior ....... Txs, Dave/dblmed

    Schuma_OFF_Side_Cap-4.jpg (50.43 KB, 154 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    SUPER Schuma EM/NCO Side Cap w Police Green Piping.

    KEITH ( www.hmsbrinmaric) WAF posted his SUPER Schuma EM/NCO w the Police Green Center Piping present. A super Schuma EM Side Cap. Txs to Keith.

    Schuma_SC_w_Green_Keith_copy.jpg (87.6 KB, 152 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma M43 Cap

    KEITH ( www.hmsbrinmaric) WAF has also posted his Really NICE Schuma M43. It has a neat Bluish tint to the cloth, plus it is in great shape. It's a Super Looker! Txs to Keith.

    Schuma_M43_w_Blue_Keith.jpg (99.13 KB, 154 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma Mann wearing an SS Insignia M43 Cap.
    (Photo is Courtesy of my friend, Wotan)

    It seems that the Schuma wore whatever Uniform combinations were made available to them.

    Supply & Distribution of Items to the Schuma appears to have been a significant challenge.
    Since the Schuma was subordinate to the SS & Polizei, unusual Uniform combinations seem to be 'routine!' ...Txs, Dave / dblmed

    Schuma_M43_SS_Wotan.jpg (53.07 KB, 152 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma Batl. 64
    Here is a Schuma ID Tag that I have - for a man in Schuma Batl. 64

    With a neat commentary from a fellow Collector - Mr. Dogtag - Al (on WAF)

    "...Yes Schuma 64 Btl. was a Belorussian Schuma Bataillon and it was later incorporated into 30 Waffen Grenenadier Belorussian SS Division.

    These Belorussian Schuma tags were recovered in Poland some 60 km north from Warsaw. Actually it's an interesting story.

    A friend of mine went metaldetecting in an old 19th cent battlefield. Suddenly a local villager came and noticed a tag on my friend's neck. He said that he's got one in his house as there were some 100 or more at the attic left over by Germans. He brought the tag but said that the rest were thrown away when they were tiding up the attic in 70-ties. We have spent some 2 years before we found the field where the tags were spread by plough all over the place..."
    (Courtesy of Mr. Dogtag - Al / Poland)

    SCHUMA_ID_Tag_Btl_64.jpg (101.48 KB, 111 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Here is a Schuma 273 Btl. ID (Dogtag) - I didn't know which Country the Unit drew it's men.

    Then, with another neat commentary from a fellow Collector - Mr. Dogtag - Al (on WAF)

    * "...Hi Dave....I could find some info about Schutzmannschaften Batl. 273. It was formed in the eastern part of Latvia.
    * In 15.07.43 the Battalion was added to Schutzmannschaften. Batl. 276.
    * A month later Schutzm. Batl. 276 became IV Batl. in Lett. Pol. Regt. 1.,
    * which in the end of 1944 joined SS Waffen Grenadiere Division (Lett.) 15..." (Courtesy of Mr. Dogtag - Al / Poland).

    SCHUMA_ID_Tag_Btl_273.jpg (50.48 KB, 110 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma Batl. 5 (Lithuanian)

    "...This ID tag was found in the Kurland area ......
    The question is about disk... Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 5 (Lit.).
    I have seen another disk of such 'Round' kind from Schutzm. Batl. 23 (Lett.)

    As I understand such disks were given in 1941.
    Who knows why they are so strange? Maybe these disks were produced somewhere in Baltic states? ..."
    (Courtesy of Victor L. / Latvia ... WAF)

    SCHUMA_ID_Tag_Btl_5.jpg (72.17 KB, 109 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Here is an ID tab from the Estonian Schuma Police Battalion 31 ...
    (Courtesy of Sturmmann / Estonia - WAF)

    "...I guess the round ones were produced most probably in Latvia or some other Baltic country - I have a round one coming from Schuma Batl. 19. ..." (Mr. Dogtag / Al)

    ? Isn't it Amazing!
    Without the 'Magic' of the NET, and Militaria Forums - we would never find these type of materials, or the diversity of World Wide TR Collections! ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

    SCHUMA_ID_Tag_Btl_31.jpg (95.06 KB, 108 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    G
    Offline
    G
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    Al is one of the few honest diggers that specialize just in tags.. Professional, scientific, overall very nice guy. Credit to the tag bunch!

    Those round ones are some very nice tags, really most Shuma are hard to find. I've stopped collecting them years ago. Just keeping 50 or so that are super rare,, SS,, an the weird/unique. Got to get me one of these round examples one day!

    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Thanks Gaspare!

    Yes, Al, & the Dog Tag guys, really know their stuff &
    they seem to do a lot of research. That really helps to
    unwravel those mysteries.


    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma Related Polizei / SS Document - 1943 - #1

    I've been able to acquire a Schuma Related Polizei / SS Document - from 1943. The following is the Dealer's description:

    ".... Document of Fritz Trger, SS-Sturmbannfhrer Waffen-SS / Major Rural Police / Ukrainian Volunteers Unit - Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146.

    Large promotion document (4 pages) of the 3rd Reich Interior Ministry, 22.1.43. Signed (original signature - ? "Hopefully" :?: ) by the Reichsfhrer of the SS, Heinrich Himmler, at his field headquarters (Feldkommandostelle des Reichsfhrer SS). Trger is promoted from Hauptmann der Schutzpolizei to Major der Schutzpolizei because he was promoted in the Waffen-SS on 21.12.42 to SS-Sturmbannfhrer.

    Born 1899. Trger served in WW1 as gunner with the artillery 1917-18.

    1924 he started working at the Schutzpolizei, auxiliary police.

    In 1942 Trger was Vorbereitungsoffizier bei den Ukrainischen Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146, Planning Officer with the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police, notorious for the atrocities against Jews and other civilians, responsible for many mass executions in the Ukraine and elsewhere in Eastern Europe. His units were for example active in Russia (Kursk, Orel and Charkow).

    According to Waffen-SS personnel lists he was on 1.10.44 still active at the Waffen-SS as Sturmbannfhrer....."

    Schuma_F_Trager_Docs-1GDC.jpg (53.36 KB, 121 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    SCHUMA Related Polizei / SS Document - 1943 - #2

    Document of Fritz Trger, SS-Sturmbannfhrer Waffen-SS / Major Rural Police /
    Ukrainian Volunteers Unit - Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146.

    Schuma_F_Trager_Docs-2GDC.jpg (49.61 KB, 120 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    SCHUMA Related Polizei / SS Document - 1943 -#3

    Document of Fritz Trger, SS-Sturmbannfhrer Waffen-SS / Major Rural Police /
    Ukrainian Volunteers Unit - Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146.

    "...Ukrainischen Schumtzmannschafts-batl. 143-146 BdO. Urkraine..."

    Schuma_F_Trager_Docs-3GDC.jpg (52.74 KB, 118 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    SCHUMA Related Polizei / SS Document - 1943 -#4

    Document of Fritz Trger, SS-Sturmbannfhrer Waffen-SS / Major Rural Police /
    Ukrainian Volunteers Unit - Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 143-146. ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

    Schuma_F_Trager_Docs-4.jpg (99.88 KB, 117 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    UKRAINIAN - SCHUMA SD Tunic - 1

    Gordon Craig posted his Sensational SCHUMA on the below Thread, and has graciously allowed me to show it on our SCHUMA Thread.
    http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=35492&st=60

    Gentlemen,

    Here is a picture of my Ukrainian SCHUMA tunic. It has some moth damage but considering the rarity it was worth adding to my collection. Sorry that I could not button it up. The thread on one button has already let go so I leave it unbuttoned. Please ignore the badges. They are both copies. They are just there so I can keep track of them.

    Regards, Gordon

    1_Gordon's-Schuma-Tunic-SM (98.89 KB, 36 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    UKRAINIAN - SCHUMA SD Tunic - 2

    Posted for Gordon Craig:

    A closer view of the badges on the left arm.

    2-Schuma-Tunic-GMIS-2sm.jpg (101.9 KB, 108 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    UKRAINIAN - SCHUMA SD Tunic - 3

    Posted for Gordon Craig:

    Yes it has Polizei markings in side. Po1941 inside the left side of the tunic and size and maker marks on the right side. Pictures are below.

    3-Schuma-Tunic-GMIS-3sm.jpg (101.09 KB, 107 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    UKRAINIAN - SCHUMA SD Tunic - 4

    Posted for Gordon Craig:

    And the Size and Maker's Marks.
    Lots of interesting Numbers.

    4-Schuma-Tunic-GMIS-4sm.jpg (100.99 KB, 104 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    UKRAINIAN - SCHUMA SD Tunic - 5

    Gordon, ..... Your Ukrainian SCHUMA Tunic has my head spinning, because it is so very special(!) I've spent a great deal of time admiring it... Schuma tunics came in a variety of configurations - from using recylcled prior Baltic Uniforms - to - Allgemeine SS Uniforms (with a blue cuff & collar added on) - to - the various models of Polizei Uniforms (& probably some other types, which I am forgetting!)

    Your tunic started off its life as a super SchuPo (Schutzpolizei) tunic, with all of that outstanding Green Piping at the collar, vertical button line & above the 'chocolate' cuffs. It was then shipped OST - where it was issued to the SCHUMA Police, and it was kitted out for an SD / Sicherheitspolizei Schuma man, of the rank of Vizekorporal.

    The SCHUMA Officers & Men assigned to the SD wore 'Black' - Like their parent SD - using black collar tabs; black shoulder boards & black sleeve patch (with some differences between ranks):

    Shoulder Boards - EM/NCO's wore black Shoulder Boards with green piping - & - Officers wore black Shoulder Boards with silver / Aluminum thread piping - both having prominent white Swastikas.

    Sleeve Patches - EM/NCO's wore the black sleeve patch, which used grey/off-white thread for the Schuma 'Emblem.' Officers wore a black sleeve patch, which used silver / Aluminum thread for the Schuma 'Emblem.' (I have also seen one SD Schuma Officer sleeve patch which was made using silver bullion.)

    Collar Tabs / Patches - were black & could be either an Long parallelogram shape - or - a Short parallelogram shape - more "SS-Like." (This was new information which I learned from reading Dieter Deuster's recently published book "Deutsche Polizei-Uniformen."

    Your tunic's Collar Tabs / Patches are exquisite & they 'push the envelope' - in that they even have Green Piping around the edges! (Since the SD used green as their unterlage / underlay, then this fits in perfectly.)

    Everything about your Ukrainian SCHUMA Tunic is just outstanding, IMO(!) CONGRATS....

    Below is a partial table from Deuster's book. It gives a very nice overview of the various Collar Tabs & Shoulder Boards - with your SD man being the 2nd from the right (& the 'alternate' form of using the smaller Collar Tabs [such as yours] is shown below.). ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

    5-Schuma-Tabs_Boards-SM.jpg (94.52 KB, 107 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    UKRAINIAN - SCHUMA SD Tunic - 6

    Dieter Deuster's book "Deutsche Polizei-Uniformen" - shows the various Schuma:

    * Sleeve Patches -
    * Cap Patches - & -
    * National 'Identity' Kokardes/ Koquardes

    - - - As "from bottom to top."

    The SD SCHUMA is again on the Right side of the table. Deuster omits the Schuma Feuerschutzpolizei sleeve patch (but perhaps he ran out of room on the page?)

    The Ukrainian Kokarde is on the far upper right - & it echos the 'Yellow & Blue' colors of the sleeve patch on Gordon's SCHUMA tunic. ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

    6-Schuma-PatchesSm.jpg (97.32 KB, 105 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    UKRAINIAN - SCHUMA SD Tunic - 7

    Buy the Book as a reference! "Deutsche Polizei-Uniformen" - by Dieter Deuster -

    If you have a general interest in the various POLIZEI branches (& especially if you are interested in the SCHUMA or the TeNo (Technische Nothilfe.) It really clears up a lot of previously unknown, or confusing, information - & the bibliography leads you to the original source, for a further detailed study of the regulations.

    I bought my copy on German ebay [ ebay.de ] YES - it is in German, but you don't need to speak German to enjoy the tables (tafels) and photos. I'm slowly translating my copy, [ Babelfish! ] as I find this book to be that worthwhile!... Txs, Dave/dblmed

    7-Book-Deuster-PolizeiSm.jpg (92.13 KB, 203 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    UKRAINIAN - SCHUMA SD Tunic - 8

    Posted for Gordon Craig:

    Thanks for your very interesting response. I have several books on polizei but not this particular one. I'll have to add it to my library.

    I did a lot of research several years ago on the SCHUMA but that was before the days of the net and there wasn't alot of info avaiable. I have a few polizei uniforms and most of them are post war. I have a magazine that has some very interesting SCHUMA period pictures in it but can not find it at the moment.

    I have been living in Budapest for the last three years and just returned to Canada at the end of August and I am still unpacking my collection and trying to figure out where to put it all.

    Regards, Gordon


    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    G
    Offline
    G
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    Very interesting jacket.
    Does the shoulder boards have the swastikas on them? From the photos it doesn't look like they do.. Recently I've gotten a hold of a set of schuma fire police, with no swastika on them. Everything else is exact, size, color, pattern etc.
    Are there loops for 2 awards?

    Love that sleeve shield!
    Would love to see close ups of the collar tabs and that shield! Wink

    Joined: Jul 2010
    Posts: 546
    J
    Offline
    J
    Joined: Jul 2010
    Posts: 546
    dave, looks like your over seas cap is late war ,due to the italian material ,it appears to made from. any "odd ball" maker makings ?? higher ups in the ss demanded that the tons of italian material sitting around be truck loaded pack to germany before that front was lost. most went to the camps & used for ss / police uniform items. usually with no marking ,or with the "ss-bw marking.
    jeff h. (nice threads !!!!!)

    jeff #239867 02/20/2011 08:53 AM
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma Tabs Question

    GREAT THREAD! Hello All!. Would this pair of tabs go together? They came together from the Vet's son.
    From what I have seen in searching the forum the tabs should be a mirror image of each other, but is this
    combination possible as well for any of the Schuma groups?

    Thanks for any help,

    John T. ..... email: militarybuyer@aol.com

    aSchuma-Tabs-John-T-FGDC.jpg (119.51 KB, 164 downloads)
    Last edited by Dave L / dblmed; 02/20/2011 08:54 AM. Reason: Sp

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Black SCHUMA Boards - 2 - Reverse

    aSchuma-Tabs-John-T-RGDC.jpg (115.13 KB, 161 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Nice SCHUMA Tabs (!)

    Hi John - Nice SCHUMA Tabs (!) CONGRATS !

    From what I've read & from the Schuma photos which I've seen [granted, not that many!],
    it seems that Schuma collar tabs were worn as identical matched pairs.

    Yours, from a reliable Vet source, might represent what he gathered up from a supply
    depot, or other source, IMO.

    At any rate = NICE Schuma items. Thanks for posting them. Best, ... Dave L / dblmed


    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Rank - of SCHUMA Sicherheitspolizei Plain [No Tresse] Black Right Collar Tab

    I was thinking about John T's nice Schuma tab, so I reviewed Dieter Deuster's "Deutsche Polizei-Uniformen." If you collect Police or TeNo or Schuma this book is a 'must-have' Reference for your library, although it is written in German only. I've translated the TeNo chapter & part of the Schuma chapter more to go.]

    Using Deuster's Tafel SM 4, page 428, as a starting base, I've added some of the SCHUMA Sicherheitspolizei ranking; John's blank tabs & real examples of the 4 shoulder board types.

    John's SCHUMA Sicherheitspolizei Plain [No Tresse] Black Collar Tab is a match for the Right Sided collar tab, of the rank of SCHUTZMANN. [Deuster shows the SCHUMA Schutzpolizei ranks [Green], but it is my understanding that the SCHUMA Sicherheitspolizei followed the same naming pattern.]

    Askold has a valid point also, IMO. It would be quite reasonable that 'excess supplies' of the Blank Black Collar Tabs might have been supplied to SCHUMA units, so that the Tresse could be added locally for promotions. [Supply was certainly a real problem in the vast areas where the SCHUMA operated.] The Blank Black Collar tab could well have had 2 purposes for the SCHUTZMAN rank & for use in future promotions.

    The above follows the Dienstgradabzeichen of 1943-1945 [although I believe that it was also in use in late 1942 also]. The 'classic' 1942 SCHUMA ranking was by means of various series of a Silver Tresse "V" & Silver Tresse linear stripes (1-4) worn on the left lower sleeve, above the cuff. Interesting stuff !

    SCHUMA collecting is a continuing study of history!
    [Roman, Txs again for the variant Schuma Feuerpolizei Tab!] Dave L / dblmed

    aSchuma-RANKS-GDC.jpg (113.18 KB, 160 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    RE: Variant SCHUMA Fire Police Shoulder Boards

    Part of the fun of SCHUMA collecting is finding the unexpected! Just when you think that you "sort of" have the Insignias of this TR organization figured out something previously unknown pops up.

    Thanks to a keen eyed friend [Askold Txs!] I was able to add a 'variant' type of SCHUMA Fire Police shoulder board set to the collection. It is a not seen before type for me but perhaps other collectors have come across it? It's not shown in Dieter Deuster's fine book with the SCHUMA chapter, so it's a bit of a mystery yet.

    As is Attached Below:

    A - SCHUMA Fire Police Boards A represent the 'Typical' shoulder boards attributed to this branch. The base cloth [top & bottom] is Police Green, with Fire Police RED used for the piping & the swastika.

    B - SCHUMA Fire Police Boards B represents, IMO an 'Atypical' / unusual shoulder board set, also consistent with the Fire Police. For B, the base cloth [top & bottom] is BLACK, with Crimson-RED used for the piping & ROSA used for the swastika. The overall pattern is consistent with SCHUMA boards.

    WHY - the observed Color differences?:

    (1) It could well be a war time expediency of just using the available cloth materials since fabricating SCHUMA Insignia was not at the top of the priorities list; or

    (2) The central swastika ROSA faded due to the dye-lot or exposure to light [but I rather doubt this explanation; or -

    (3) The SCHUMA B shoulder boards 'could' have been manufactured to designate a yet unknown Fire Police function [i.e. Airfield Fire Police vs Municipal Fire Police vs. Rural Fire Police, etc., bzw.]; or

    (4) Another yet unknown function?

    What is your Opinion & Thoughts on these SCHUMA Boards? .. Txs, Dave L / dblmed

    aSchuma-Fire-Bds-2-VarGDCs.jpg (114.88 KB, 158 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    SCHUMA / Schutzmannschaft Zugfhrer "Leytenants" Combat Tunic

    Thanks to Abigor for spotting this quite special tunic! It was sold on the website of Peter v Lukacs
    www.military-antiques-stockholm.com/

    Here is what the Dealer has to say about this SCHUMA tunic:

    "...The tunic is from start a Police field tunic, six button front. Rough police green wool with four patch-style pockets and straight-edge flaps. Breast-pockets have pleats but lower pockets are pleat-less, all in true police-style. Tunic is fully lined in brown drill cloth and have clear size markings with a good size "98" chest size.

    The field tunic have then been modified with a dark green Officers collar added to the tunic, which looks to be of Police issue as it have the same cloth on backside as the police tunics use in the linings. Also all belt hook straps have been removed inside.

    At the Collar the tunic have Zugfhrer (Leytnant) Collar tabs machine sewn in place. The collar tabs are made of black badge cloth and is surrounded with twisted cord of the same variety used by SS and LW. On the collar patches there are a tresse sewn all around it, both collar tabs are the same.

    At shoulder there are shoulder boards made of black wool tops and field grey backsides, the boards have a Officers aluminum/silver embroidered swastika at the middle (one can clearly see the paper underlay it have been embroidered over) and have the same aluminum/silver twisted cord as the collar tabs.

    On the left arm there are a SCHUMA officers arm badge in woven silver/silver threads (flatwire) on black rayon backing, it is machine sewn in place. On the left breast pocket there are loops for two badges.

    Tunic show quite a bit of wear and have nap wear all over but specially at the highlighted points, it have some field made mendings and staining outside as well as inside, it is a tunic which for sure have been worn in field for quite some time. It is a "salty dog." ..."
    Txs, Dave L / dblmed

    Schuma-Zugfuhrer-Unif1-1k.jpg (93.21 KB, 147 downloads)
    Last edited by Dave L / dblmed; 03/04/2011 05:39 AM. Reason: Color

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    SCHUMA / Schutzmannschaft Zugfhrer "Leytenants" Combat Tunic

    Schuma-Zugfuhrer-Unif2-1k.jpg (97.48 KB, 214 downloads)
    Last edited by Dave L / dblmed; 03/04/2011 05:35 AM. Reason: Sp

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    SCHUMA / Schutzmannschaft Zugfhrer "Leytenants" Combat Tunic

    Schuma-Zugfuhrer-Unif3-1k.jpg (97.44 KB, 212 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    G
    Offline
    G
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    Yeah! for me the holy grail of jackets.. Better shot of the tabs please?

    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    With regards to the authenticy of the SCHUMA tunic, Askold Posted:
    http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forum /showthread.php?p=4526907#post4526907

    Sorry to say, but this is a put together tunic (oh, big surprise with that dealer .) These tabs were sold on German eBay few months ago. Their construction is a bit shady so I passed on them. Someone bought them, and in few months, they magically turn into a tunic. The problem the dealer made, was putting extra piping around - such combination never existed.

    I earlier asked about the backing of these tabs in question, as I am not that good with tabs:

    http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=450655

    & also NickG Posted:

    I was intrigued by this tunic on Peter's site... Sold quickly I understand... So its been assembled-restored like this with what turns out to be questionable collar tabs...

    Interesting that its in Polizei green wool, combat cut with proper Polizei pockets (chest pockets pleated, skirt pockets plain, as it should be) BUT with a modified (early armed forces style) dark green collar, something Not seen usually on Polizei tunics!


    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma (Schutzmannschaften) Officers M43 Field Cap.

    Thanks Nick & Askold!

    Here is the Schuma Officers M43 Field Cap which the dealer stated came with the previously posted Tunic.

    Whats your opinion of the Cap?
    Txs, Dave L / dblmed

    Schuma-M43-OFF-2-Btn-1k.jpg (90.55 KB, 197 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    G
    Offline
    G
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 12,048
    Likes: 255
    Dave, the links to WAF don't work. Whereare they Police section? , regular uniforms?
    All I can say is never say never with shuma stuff!
    But if the jcket was spied somewhere else and reappeared with the 'extras' then thats a shame...

    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    OP Offline
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
    Schuma Fhrer SD / Sicherheitspolizei Bullion Sleeve Patch

    The BeVo version [using Aluminum/Silvered wire threads] is the usual patch for the Schuma Fhrer d. SD which is most often found.

    It turns out that a bullion version was also authorized [Deuster, Tafel Sm3 & text] for the ranks of the Schuma Fhrer d. SD.

    Attached are 2 examples of this uncommonly found Schuma sleeve patch. [DaveJ's nice example was 1st seen on Post 49 & I've been searching for another since seeing it.]
    http://www.wehrmacht...t=234390&page=4

    Gaspare - the WAF discussion on the TUNIC is in the POLICE Forum, up top in the Pinned SCHUMA Thread.

    ? HELP ? - I'm not getting "instant" email notifications of any postings? ... What box / item do I need to Click or Set?

    Txs, Dave L / dblmed

    Schuma-Bullion-BLACK-1k.jpg (96.58 KB, 166 downloads)

    [Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
    Joined: Mar 2016
    Posts: 1
    A
    Offline
    A
    Joined: Mar 2016
    Posts: 1
    Originally Posted By: Dave L / dblmed


    Hello,

    has anyone got the text that goes with these illustrations ?

    "Eastern volunteers in the Wehrmacht, the police and the SS "

    Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Popular Topics(Views)
    2,259,660 SS Bayonets
    1,759,191 Teno Insignia Set
    1,127,035 westwall rings
    Latest New Threads
    artificial ivory grip
    by sellick8302@rogers.com - 02/25/2024 03:36 PM
    HR on Rats auction
    by Gaspare - 02/24/2024 01:04 PM
    SOS rings +
    by Gaspare - 02/23/2024 12:36 AM
    FAIRBAIRN SYKES BRITISH DAGGER KNIFE ?
    by Dutchman - 02/22/2024 04:52 PM
    Luftwaffe General Hangers
    by BretVanSant - 02/22/2024 12:24 PM
    Latest New Posts
    HR on Rats auction
    by Tanker - 02/26/2024 03:38 PM
    SOS rings +
    by Gaspare - 02/26/2024 04:57 AM
    C. W. ENGELS Jagdmesser mit Hirschhorngriff
    by Mikee - 02/26/2024 01:55 AM
    artificial ivory grip
    by wotan - 02/26/2024 12:03 AM
    Allentown or SOS
    by sellick8302@rogers.com - 02/25/2024 03:26 PM
    Forum Statistics
    Forums42
    Topics31,623
    Posts328,327
    Members7,488
    Most Online5,900
    Dec 19th, 2019
    Who's Online Now
    10 members (C. Wetzel-20609, krismeda, ed773, Vern, Jim W, Jonesy, Nietzsche, Documentalist, Tanker, JR), 383 guests, and 79 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5