UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Police Uniforms Forum SCHUMA Cloth - Boards & Patches

Last is my set of 5 uncut ones Paul

Vigs 48 ...... More GREAT Information on the Schuma! (and from 1969 to boot!)

Some of those same Photos are used on the Russian site that I referenced.

Your 5 uncut light Green Schuma's are incredible! That Color is a very hard one to find even one example of, and you have 5! Good Going Paul... Dave/dblmed

DaveJ (WAF) has a very nice cross sectional Schuma Cloth Collection of Patches, Shoulder Boards & a Collar Tab. He has allowed me to Post them here, and to share these Items with us.

From DaveJ Collection ............. Txs, Dave/dblmed

A very Nice BLACK Schuma Bullion Sleeve Patch.

From DaveJ Collection ............. Txs, Dave/dblmed

FRONT

Backside of the very Nice BLACK Schuma Bullion Sleeve Patch.

Shows a fine 'zig zag' stitching around the borders.

From DaveJ Collection ............. Txs, Dave/dblmed

REVERSE

Schuma OFFICER'S Boards - 2 Variations-TOPS

With the help of a friend (HK), and his keen eyes, I have
been able to match up my mis-matched Schuma OFFICER'S Boards.
They look pretty much the same on the top side - but -.
...... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Schuma OFFICER'S Boards - 2 Variations-REVERSE

(The shiney Bullion didn't show up well in the above Photos, but it's there.)

But on the reverse, we see that they have 2 different types of fabric used.
So the Boards must have been made by different makers, or at different times.
Interesting variations. Txs ...... Dave/dblmed

RED / CARMINE Schuma Boards-TOPS

Maybe this red is really Carmine? Looks pretty red though to me. I found 2 Red / Carmine sleeve patches which seem to match up with them, 1 used and 1 unissued. Txsm Dave/dblmed

RED? / CARMINE Schuma Boards-REVERSE

Reverse... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Green Schuma Boards w White Swastika-TOP

Green Schuma Boards w White Swastika - I have found these in 2 variations also (so probably there are even more variants!) TOP side. Txs, ....Txs, Dave/dblmed

Green Schuma Boards w White Swastika-REVERSE

Green Schuma Boards w White Swastika - Flip them over, and 2 different fabric types are seen again. Txs, ....Dave/dblmed

Green Schuma Boards w Light Green Swastika-TOP

Green Schuma Boards w Light Green Swastika (Like in the roll of 5 which VIGS showed us), I knew existed from the prior posting.

But the MEDIUM - DARK GREEN sleeve patch is a new one to me. I have seen the lighter green (Lime Green) Schuma patch, but Not a Dark Green SCHUPO colored patch. Has anyone seen this one before?

Why would the Schuma use Light Green and also Dark Green?
(But, then again,

� the Schuma used a Lighter Green Piped Shoulder Boards with WHITE Thread Swastika,
� and
� they used a MED - DARK Green Piped Shoulder Boards with GREEN Thread Swastika

So, there must be a 'logical' reason for the 2 Green colors. Txs,Dave/dblmed
Attached Images

Green Schuma Boards w Light Green Swastika-REVERSE

Reverse... Txs, Dave/dblmed

MEDIUM - DARK Green Schuma Sleeve Patch

This patch is a beauty - and it really is a Medium to Dark Green -
NOT the Lime Green, which I have seen previously (and as is shown in VIGS Post)! Txs, Dave/dblmed

Fantastic pieces Dave! Where did you pick up the pink and green boards? Was this a recent find?

P.S. My only set of em Schuma boards are actually missmatched and show two variations as well - one has a black velvety material (like most of them), the other is made from course black cotton like material (some times we find late ss tabs made from such material).

Askold, I picked up the pink and the green Swastika boards recently from a friend who is kindly a 'Schuma and TeNo' hunter for me at mid west shows. Item from both organizations are to be found, but it takes a lot of hunting... and some good luck along the way.

Schuma Boards backing materials (flaps) - from looking at a number of Shoulder Boards, I believe that there are at least 3 variations:

Co**** Black (cotton like material)

Light (satin like material)

Medium-Dark (also satin like material)

Perhaps the variations are due to different makers, or having been made at different times?

... Txs, Dave/dblmed

What a great find! I managed to get one silver and one orange board some time ago and still hoping to find green and pink ones.

Middle Green & Lime Green Schuma Patches

I just got in 2 Lime Green Schuma Patches (after a loooong search for one!)

When I compared them to the Middle Green Schuma patch shown previously, I was struck by some notable differences!

The Middle Green Schuma patch is
� Definitely smaller than the 'standard' size Lime Green (& Orange & others)
� Is Round, where the others are the 'standard' Oval shape

It came out of a long term Schuma collection, so that is a bit of comfort;
The construction is identical - material & stitching - also comforting;
I haven't seen another like it (although other Collectors may have)
In hand inspection, it looks right and feels right...

But, I don't know it's purpose in the Schuma scheme of things?

We do see the 2 variations of Green Schuma Shoulder Boards - so, perhaps this may account for the Middle Green Schuma patch? ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Reverse

Very interesting comparison of the Schuma patches Dave. I believe that it could be just a variation or the smaller one could be a try out set that got produced and later replaced by the standard oval ones. If you nottice there is also variation in the boards as well. Some are more longer, while others are shorter and more pointier. I suspect that the longer boards were meant for overcoats. Here is two of my boards:

Just wanted to add few immages to this great thread:

A Soldbuch for Ukrainia Schutzmanshaft:



Sometimes not every unit would wear typical Schuma uniforms. Here is major from one of Ukrainian battalions. He is wearing WH? boards, trident cockades and old Ukrainian republic medal bar.



Ukrainians and Germans at Zarig Schuma outpost:


Belarussian schuma members. Note a rare black M-43 cap:


Winter headgear variation:


Ukrainian schuma wearing captured British ? pot helmets:


Lithuanian schuma, police and TLR members:

My mistake, the captured helmet is not British but Dutch M-18

Few more interesting pics:

Ukrainian shuma (foto from the net). Note the Allgemeine side cap - the eagle is continued to be worn, but the skull button appears to be replaced with regular button.


Belorussian shuma from Bobrujsk, instead of swastika wreatsh they are wearing standard police cap insignia:


Belorussian shuma funeral in Minsk. Note the use of captured Soviet Sh-36 helmets:


Schuma graduates from Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia attend a trip/conf erence in Germany:

ASKOLD ... Many Thanks(!) Amazing Photos...

Your Photos are some of the most interesting (and certainly amongst the rarest!) period Photos of the Schuma / Schutzmannschaften men.

The diversity of uniform types & the "mix-&-match" of caps, visors, collar tabs, shoulder boards & sleeve patches - seems to show that the Schuma were outfitted with 'whatever' was locally availale!

So many of the Schuma are wearing the Allegemine SS Black uniforms - with altered collars, pocket flaps and sleeve cuffs! (Some authors show the alterations as a type of "Police Green" usually, but other colors seem to have been used - again, probably due to availability of suitable cloth.)
Just such a Schuma uniform is now for sale on the estand at WAF, and has been discussed.)

Askold, your WebSite www.galiciadivision.com is Exceptional(!)

It has phenomenal wealth of knowledge / Photos on the Schuma, and on SS Galacia and other Ukrainian formations. A GREAT Historical site! Thanks for taking the time to create it, and to then keep it updated.

Thanks for adding a great deal to the knowledge base regarding the Schuma! You need to write a book about the Ukrainian formations! - (both in English & in Ukrainian!) ... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Here's the English lang. version

http://ssgalicia.onestop.net/main.html


*

I would also add something - here are two ID tags (KM size) and "cross" found with one them by my colleague.

Jan

Gaspare - Yes, the English section is a bit easier to read, than the Ukrainian. BUT, there are great PHOTOS throughout the Site, so checking it ALL out, is very informative.

Jan - what fascinating Schuma ID Tags & the 'SS EK' made to be worn around the neck. Schuma items seem to turn up the unexpected. Txs, Dave/dblmed

Dave:

All I can say is thank you for the compliments! Here is one more photo from my collection - early Belarussian Shuma. No special collars or cuffs or any insignia were ever worn.

I have a bunch items ,mostly gifts, from my travels to East Europe.. Here's a pair of boards and arm patch..

Although not really Schuma, but still very interesting photo to add to the foreign police volunteers thread. Ukrainian police band from General Gouvernment. Note the "swallows nests"! The guy in the middle is also wearing Petliura Cross - an award issued to Ukrainian vets who fought against the Russians in 1918. All other orchestra members are also wearing their police badges.

Simon Petliura Cross

Excellent stuff!

Thanks Askold,

More wonderful Schuma and Ukrainian Information and Items!

Seeing the Ukrainian "Trident" on the Simon Petliura Cross (which I was previously not aware of!) is fascinating - as this "Trident" symbol must have a long history of use. ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Thanks guys! One more pic I came across:

Askold - Keep those Schuma photos & other Schuma items coming in! Super.

I just got in a photo of 2 Schuma men. No writing on the back. Seller states that they are "Ukranian" Schuma from an album. I can't tell?

The Photo Shows, IMO:

� the Schuma LT. sleeve patch (it is 'shiney' so perhaps that will narrow down the possible types.)
� Im Dienst Der Deutschen Polizei arm bands - NICE!
� Uniforms (& Schuma wore just about anything!) that look a bit like LUFT Tunics to me.
(BUT... I am no authority on these.) One tunic has a flap pocket.
� Probable Polizei Type Collar Tabs (Patches)
� Unknown Shoulder Boards - too narrow for typical Schuma + no Swastika seen on them.
� 2 different styles and sizes of leather belts.

You may see other things that I missed! ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Gaspare! ...Keep bringing back MORE of those really great items from your trips to the East!

Plus, you may come across some Schuma Photos or Schuma Paper Items - it went 'underground' but there must be a lot which is still out there! Txs, Dave/dblmed

Discussion of the Above Photo

Discussion of the Above Photo is best summed up as: "It seems to be [Schuma, used as] Luftschutzpolizei men, due to Fliegerblouses & special LSW/SHD [narrow] shoulder boards... by our friends, lbsr & Keith (www.hmsbrinmaric)." The Narrow Shoulder Boards would have been a Dark Green.

Some LUFT Collectors have the opinion that perhaps Type 1 and Type 2 Luft Fliegerblouses are seen - i.e. the apparent absence of a pocket on the Schuma man on the Left. Perhaps, the case.

� � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �
The Many Colors of the Schuma The different Colors of the Schuma Sleeve Patches and Shoulder Boards remains an 'unknown' as no period Regs. or Documents have surfaced (Yet!). Perhaps Keith or Askold (or others) may have
OFF-SB-2: Silver Piping & Silver Thread Swastika on Black Shoulder Boards = Officer.

Officer - Schuma Sleeve Patches:
OFF-SL-1: Silver Wire Thread - on Black Center/Background Sleeve Patch = Officer
OFF-SL-2: All Silver Wire Thread Sleeve Patch � on Green Background = Officer
OFF-SL-3: Silver Bullion Patch � on Black Background = Officer

EM/NCO - Shoulder BOARDS:
OFF-SB-1: Green Piping & White Thread Swastika on Black Shoulder Boards
OFF-SB-2: Green Piping & Green Swastika on Green Shoulder Boards
OFF-SB-3: Reddish/Carmine Piping & Reddish/Carmine Swastika on Green Shoulder Boards
OFF-SB-4: Orange Piping w Orange Swastika on Green Shoulder Boards

EM/NCO - Schuma Sleeve Patches:
E/N-SL-1: All Greenish Thread w a Black Center & Background - on Green Background
E/N-SL-2: All Lime Green Thread - on Green Background
E/N-SL-3: All Medium Green Thread, as Circle not Oval � on Green Background
...............(so far, this is a 1 of, so I am a bit uncertain, but seems Legit.)
E/N-SL-4: All Orange (Bright!) Thread - on Green Background
E/N-SL-5: Redish/Carmine Thread - on Green Background

Field Cap / Side Cap Patches:
OFF F/SC: Silver Wire on Black = Officer (there is Photo proof & collector's examples)
E/N F/SC: White / Grey-White on Black = EM/NCO (there is Photo proof & collector's examples)

(***) AND, there may well be other colors, Yet to be seen � in other Collections!

Meanings of Schuma Color Combinations � for Boards & Patches:

It is 'believed' but is not proven / documented (to my knowledge), that the Schuma used the standard Polizei color scheme, such that:

(A) Orange = Schuma Gendarmerie-type functions

(B) Reddish / Carmine = Schuma Fire / Feurschutz-type functions
(Part of the basis for this Assumption is from: "In November 1941 Daluege issued a more detailed set of regulations. He identified the non-German urban and rural patrolmen (Einzeldienst) as well as all non-German firemen as part of the Schutzmannschaft. With respect to these changes, the Schutzmannschaft was largely a new term for older offices and functions, with the difference that all Schutzmannschaft men were clearly subordinated to German police authorities.
There were also auxiliary Schutzmannschaft men who served on work details and
carried out guard duties for the German police or the military." Link is Below

(C) �'the' MANY SCHUMA Greens � Boards & Patches = Different Polizei types of functions � still Unknown, but could well have differentiated between some of the following:

(IMO, Various "Green & Other Color Combination" Schuma 'Boards & Patches' would have been needed (IMO) - (to ID / Differentiate specific Units) since the Schuma / Schutzmannschaften duties / activities were so widely varied, and included:

* General Policing of the Occupied Areas;
* Luftschutz Activities;
* Anti-Partisan Fighting;
* Staffing of KLagers in Occupied Areas;
* Guarding POW's;
* Extermination of Jews & Other Groups;
* Labor Groups;
* Front line fighting against the Russians;
* and probably many other activities.

If you wish to learn MORE about the Schuma, this is a Super Link - SCHUMA Link:
http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp....MVIuG&b=395183

It has more DOCUMENTED Schuma information, than I've found elsewhere.
Hopefully, this Information is helpful. �. Txs, Dave/dblmed

Schuma Officer's Field Cap-1

I acquired this Field Cap just recently, and it was 'Vetted' out OK, by the boys of the ForumS.

I'm very excited about it - since it's Schuma (#1) & for an Officer (#2)! ......... Txs, ...Dave/dblmed

Schuma Officer's Field Cap-Front Right....

Schuma Officer's Field Cap-2

Schuma Officer's Field Cap-Front

Schuma Officer's Field Cap-3