UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum F Dula with a twist

Hay Guys
So is that "The Twist"
This has been he most informative thread on the site, to me at least. I love these knives, but do not own one, yet.
Thank you all for your post and information. Knowing the history behind the knives is all that makes them great.
There were millions of daggers, but the Dula's are far and few. You guys have many of them. Thanks.
I get kind of excited when I see a early Puma White Hunter at a gun show.
Ed

Gary and other posters on this thread. Believe me I'm more frustrated than you are.. I have to find a outlet to get the information out there and yet keep the VALUE of what I have collected . That is complicated and time consuming. Would collectors buy a series of factual articles or books???
Gary I will no longer post on a thread if I'm not willing to share ALL the information I have on that subject..

P.S. I do not have information on how knives were marked by F. Dula after 1945

Just appeared on WAF - used in Vietnam !

This used and abused, F. Dula Waidblatt arrived on May 26, 2023, from Montana. The small F. Dula Jagdnicker is missing. The Waidblatt with sheath cost just under $445.00 with free shipping.

The back of the sheath loop does not have the "buttonhole". The F. Dula with the 1937 date that Gary posted also looks to be missing the "buttonhole" on the back of the sheath loop.

The front of the sheath is rather plain with no decoration on the top of the sheath or the pocket for the Jagdnicker. The actual color of the sheath is a very dark brown.

My special thanks to Gary for all the F. Dula schooling. Also, thanks to Bill Warda, Royboy, Paul, Gerrit, Dave and all those that made comments on this thread.

Best Regards, C. Wetzel-20609.

Interesting Dula, you got to get whatever you can with these knives, they are so rare, this one has been through the ringer for sure though it is a nice example, the blade looks to have been reground, good luck on finding a small knife for it, the sheath is a rare type without any decoration on it but it does have the "v" shape on the top of the pocket for the small knife, the scabbard does looks to be very similar to the one I show, only the 2nd one without the buttonhole I've ever seen.

Congrats on finding an original example.

Gary

Thank you, very kindly Gary,

I did notice the V-shape notched Nicker pouch but did not mention it, I should have.

I don't expect to find the matching Nicker but who knows as I never thought I would find an F. Dula or one I could afford.

Here are close-up pictures of the V-shape notched Nicker pouch and the F. Dula maker's mark.

C. Wetzel-20609

Looks like a great find to me, so, no nicker, but a super find at less than $450.
Wish I could find one.
Ed

Gary noted "the blade looks to have been reground" he is correct.

It would appear that this knife had at one time some rust and light surface pitting, and someone removed the rust with a fine belt grinder.

Then someone using a medium-course belt grinder tried to sharpen the blade. The result is a collector's nightmare with deep scratches that go over the center ridge line.

Tiny pitting marks are still evident on the top of the blade.

The pictures of the knife for sale were not very clear but I could tell it was messed with. I still put in a bid over $600.00 to win this rare knife.

And Ed, keep looking and maybe someday you will find a nicer F. Dula, and your wish will come true.

C. Wetzel-20609.

I found this undated image of a German Waidblatt with sheath and small skinning knife by E. & F. Horster. I found this image on the Hubertus products site.

The Hubertus Waidblatt set was made in cooperation with Carl Eickhorn, and both the Hubertus and Carl Eickhorn Waidblatt have a spacer between the stag handle and the guard.

It would appear that the prototype by Frevert shown in the July 1935 book posted by Gary, also had this spacer but is missing on the F. Dula marked Waidblatt.

Waidblatt, F. Dula, Marburg (Lahn) advertisement placed in the 23 Dec. 1938 issue of "Deutsches Waidwerk".

Nice!! this is some topic too! Gets better all the time..


I nominate Baz and C. W. 20609 for one of those 'Good Topic badges" !!

Please give Baz (Gary) all the credit for this thread. He is the teacher, and I am his student.

I first learned about the F. Dula, Waidblatt from the site of T. T. Wittmann (UNMARKED F. DULA), about two years ago.

However, after I read about this "F Dula with a twist" thread on German Daggers.com and bought an F. Dula for myself, I learned from Gary's information here that the "UNMARKED F. DULA" offered by T.T. Wittmann is actually probably an unmarked or marker's mark removed, Eickhorn product.

I informed T. T. Wittmann who said he would remove the Waidblatt from his site on 26 May 2023. However, Wittmann's # 39820, "UNMARKED F. DULA" is still listed on his site for $3,250.00. I still have the utmost respect for the knowledge of T. T. Wittmann. We all have made mistakes because "research is subject to change".

Reply of May 26, 2023, from T. T. Wittmann:

"Dear Mr. Wetzel,

Well, I guess I am pleased to receive your email concerning the F. Dula
that I thought was period. With the research you have sent, I have no doubt
that my example is post-war, which explains its differences from the period
pieces. Well, there goes $3000 out the window - damn. No matter how long
we are in this hobby, no one always knows everything and I don't think a day
goes by that I don't learn something new in this interesting and somewhat
difficult hobby.

Well, thanks for letting me know. I'll take the Dula down from our website.

Best,

Thomas T. Wittmann"

Hi, I've 2 of these made by Eickhorn after war. More rare than the Puma waidblatt version.
I can post photos if it can have an interest in this thread.

JC

Back in March 2015 on this "F Dula with a twist" thread someone stated: "I'm curious about the current price of such a knife". The reply was "Tom Wittmann has one for $1995.00".

So, I did some research on the F. Dula sales in the past.

On 9/22/2009 a good used set sold for the Buy it Now price of $1164.49 on the popular auction site. The set came from the son of a WWII Veteran and can be seen on the Worthpoint site also.

On 2010-07-01 another used set sold for $610.00.

As noted, in 2015 Tom Wittmann's # 37099 set was listed for $1995.00 with a Waidmesser in poor condition, and a damaged sheath that was cut short and modified.

About Jan 2023, an F. Dula Waidblatt with Waidmesser pocket removed from the sheath and missing Waidmesser sold for 11,000 CZK ($483.45).

In May 2023 my F. Dula Waidblatt with a rare "no-button hole" sheath, but a grinded, damaged blade, and missing Waidmesser sold to me for $441.99.

And now there is the single F. Dula Waidblatt like Gary's that never had the pocket for the Waidmesser on the sheath listed for 3,250 Euros ($3,487.57).

The best examples posted on this "F Dula with a twist" thread are probably in the $4000.00-$6000.00 & up range, but this is only my guess.

PS I have also seen an image of an F. Dula set that sold (no price listed) as a PUMA Waidbesteck set. Did the person really know what they bought was a rare, F. Dula set or where they disappointed that it was not a PUMA set?


C. Wetzel-20609

Correction:

The Tom Wittmann #37099 F. Dula sheath was not cut short. The metal ring is missing from the sheath.

DULA family grave site from the Find A Grave web site. I would believe that Oberstleutnant a.D. Hans Friedrich Dula (1913-1992), was Otto Dula's son?

Otto Dula
BIRTH
unknown
DEATH
unknown
BURIAL
Hauptfriedhof Marburg
Marburg, Landkreis Marburg-Biedenkopf, Hessen, Germany

Marie Dula
BIRTH
unknown
DEATH
unknown
BURIAL
Hauptfriedhof Marburg
Marburg, Landkreis Marburg-Biedenkopf, Hessen, Germany
Inscription
ZUM GEDENKEN AN
OTTO UND MARIE
DULA


Oberstleutnant a.D. Hans Friedrich Dula
BIRTH
18 Apr 1913
DEATH
23 Nov 1992 (aged 79)
BURIAL
Hauptfriedhof Marburg
Marburg, Landkreis Marburg-Biedenkopf, Hessen, Germany

Alwine von der Heyde Dula
BIRTH
9 May 1917
DEATH
10 Mar 2011 (aged 93)
BURIAL
Hauptfriedhof Marburg
Marburg, Landkreis Marburg-Biedenkopf, Hessen, Germany



C. Wetzel-20609, contributor on the Find A Grave web site.

Hello all ,

please have a look on my DULA recently entered in my collection of hunting knives :

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7301/9Kd0Vr.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3618/M2vYrW.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/931/lOq443.jpg

after a Waidbesteck , a simple Waidblatt would be fully appreciated = S+

Seppi
It looks nice, it would be better if you could post these pictures and anymore that you care to add directly on the forum.

Try this for a resizer if you need it. http://www.picresize.com/

Gary

Hello Seppi, Baz69 is qite right, there are also forum directions which do request the direct integration of pics to the forum because once the pics are gone from a link any thread is worthless.
So or one I did integrate your pics here directly.
Btw very nice DULA with attached Knicker! congratlations to your rare find.
Regards,

Seppi, congratulations on a rare find.

To quote Baz69 (Gary), "The sheath is a rare type without any decoration on it, but it does have the "v" shape on the top of the pocket for the small knife".

My question to you Seppi is, does the sheath have the buttonhole on the back of the sheath loop?


Best regards, C. Wetzel-20609

Hello C.Wetzel ,

Very sorry to have missed your question about my DULA .

No hole on the back of the sheath but only the ring to wear the knife by mean of the hook .

Being a newbee I do not know how to insert a picture in spite of the councils given to new forumers .

Thanks also to Wotan for having included larger pictures .

Best regards = Seppi +

Hi again ,

a picture more to answer to C.Wetzel ... again with imageshack : sorry !

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/2882/oOWwvk.jpg

Seppi +

Thank you Seppi, "No hole on the back of the sheath".

I thought that it might not have the buttonhole because it is plain, with no decoration on the front of the sheath, like mine.

That makes 3 known F. DULA sheaths without the buttonhole.

C. Wetzel-20609

Here is the picture from Seppi on 01/09/2024. I used "Web capture" and "Microsoft picture manager" to post this image.

This is an enjoyable and praiseworthy thread.

--dj--Joe

Seppi. Try this.
Photo posting procedure.
Under the reply or post window, you will see "File Manager". Click it to open a window that lets you browse your computer for photos. When you find one, double click it to get the name in the box, and click "Add File". Repeat as needed, then click "Done Adding Files". When you click the "Submit" button, the files will be loaded to the forum. Users can load up to 5 photos at a time, Premium Members and moderators can add up to 10 photos at a time. This is not available in the "Quick Reply" window at the bottom of a thread.

Many thanks *derjager* for helping me but my problem is that the mention "File Manager" does not appear on my screen , I tried many times and no result unfortunately ... I think then that it's a software bug ?

Szppi+
<

For C.Wetzel ,

Hello , ref your last question :



with my kind regards and to test a new mean of inserting pics = Seppi +

Seppi,
It works best IMO when you click on, Use Full Editor. (Below the quick reply box).

Thank you Seppi,

your photo showing the back of the F. DULA sheath, does confirm, "No buttonhole on sheath loop".


C. Wetzel-20609

It's the "Attachment Manager" and only appears on the "Use Full Editor" screen.

Who wants an F. DULA with nuts? (note Waidblatt handle decorated with oak leaves and acorns).

This example was listed as a WW2 Third Reich Bowie and is from an auction in 2019.

They note the skinner knife is not original to the set in their opinion.

On May 28, 2023, Baz69 (Gary) posted: "good luck on finding a small knife for it." Well, today I had some good luck.

The F. DULA Waidmesser I have been longing for should arrive by March 7, 2024. The knife was found on the popular auction site for the "buy-it-now" price of $349.95 with free S+H.

The knife is used and rusted but I don't care, it is good enough for me. A good cleaning is overdue for this rare knife. Maker's mark on tang is F. DULA with D. R. G. M. on the other side of tang.

The seller noted the knife comes with the original sheath. Well, we will have to see about that, the sheath does look to be German and has some marks on the outside edge of the snap button stud.

Happy regards, C. Wetzel-20609

SWEET, I love it when a plan comes together.
Congrats,
Ed
PS, be sure to show us that knife when you get it.

Wetzel,

Congratulations!

What a great find, personally I would not dismiss this sheath as being original, we do not know what occured during the period, they could have sold a few skinning knives seperately though I have never seen nor heard of one.

Gary

After some research on the snap fastener stud design, on the sheath sold with the F. DULA Waidmesser, I now believe the design is known as "Meander" (or Greek Key), a decorative border design.

This type of snap fastener stud design is found on some probably 1950's to 1960's American brand knives such as WESTERN, IMPERIAL & SHAPLEIGH sheath knives.

Although 1950's to 1960's OLSEN sheath knives (imported from Solingen) used the type of leather sheath shown with the F. DULA Waidmesser, the snap fastener stud has no design.

The snap fastener was invented by a German in 1885. An early German snap fastener stud design is the 4-pointed star (also known as a "snowflake") used from at least 1915 to late 1930's. The Germans also used a plain brown snap fastener stud on WW1 knives and a plain snap fastener stud was used on the Hitler youth knives. Some photos of the Hitler youth on German Daggers.com shows that some members also used leather sheaths.

The F. DULA Waidmesser probably did not come originally with the sheath as claimed by the seller, but I do have a nice original leather sheath for that F. DULA Waidmesser with an F. DULA Waidblatt to complete the set.

My thanks to ed773, Mikee and Baz69 (Gary) for the kind words. I will be counting the days until I get to remove the rust on that blade.

C. Wetzel

Wetzel,

Awesome, Please show us some pictures when done.

Wetzel,

Awesome, Please show us some pictures when done.

The F. DULA Waidmesser arrived 6 March 2024 from Rome, New York at about 12:30 PM.

The F. DULA Waidmesser (Hunter's knife) cleaned up after about two hours of work on the blade with HOPPES Gun Oil (the original with no additives), very fine steel wool, fine stone, PUMA polish and Ren. wax. Blade now has some dark spots but no live red rust.

Issues: blade has dark spots with some minor tiny pitting, top of pommel is damaged from being used as a hammer and a very tiny 2 mm piece of stag handle is missing near the guard (F. DULA marked side).

Some collectors have given names to their knives, swords and daggers. Since the Waidblatt was buffed and the Waidmesser was rusty when they came to me, I will name the pair "Buffy & Rusty".

"Buffy & Rusty" may be the worst set of F. DULA knives known because of the abuse they have received. It is a thrill to handle these RARE, well-made knives.

As Baz69 (Gary) has noted " you got to get whatever you can with these knives, they are so rare."

The sheath sold with this F. DULA Waidmesser is for a WESTERN Nr. L48A knife.

C. Wetzel-20609