UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum F Dula with a twist

O.K mad Limey alert,
Some of you guys know what a F Dula is others will not, I believe these were first seen in advertisements in the German hunting magazines around 1935 so fairly early in the period, I also have reference to them in Deutsche Jägerschaft(DJ) publications up to 1942, quite who were allowed to wear them is unknown I believe as I have not seen any period reference as to the rules of their wear. If anybody has any information or knows who made them I would love to see it. It is assumed by some who know of these knives that they were made by the firm of Lauterjung & Sohn (Puma), this is probably because they made a set very similar to this post war along with both Eickhorn and Hubertus.
So what is an F.Dula, below is the way they are normally seen, whilst I say normally, I doubt that there are more than 10 sets known within our little community possibly only half that.

What you see above is one set that I own, whatI would point out to you is the unusual rivets through the grip holding the plates on, I don't remember seeing this type of rivet too frequently. Notice also the grips are stag, I suppose for hunting knives it's almost a pre-requisite from this period though there are a couple other materials used though we need not go into them here. It's enough to know that all the other known sets have stag grips, whats the mad limey about now I hear you saying to yourselves, will he just get on with it,well here's something I picked up only last week, came out of Germany, I do not know if they had been in a collection before but I do not think so.

Add to this strange anomoly the markings on the rear of the leather scabbard, a waffenampt in the shape of an eagle and three larger letters can we conclude that these markings and the different grip plates are related, I have checked both of my other scabbards and they are without any markings.

I must say I'm hoping a few of you will give me your opinions, maybe you have seen these rivets or this type of grip plate on other edged weapons, perhaps we can identify the markings on the rear of the scabbard, I think Houston has attributed the eagle mark to the Kreigsmarine, do you agree, anybody know what HFB would stand for, has anybody else got one of these F.Dula's sets either with stag grips or any other types of grips, anything on the rear of the scabbard. For myself I believe the grip plates to be factory applied within the 3rd Reich period, I also believe though I have no proof that these were given or bought for somebody who was in the DJ and also another branch of the services, notice the small DJ badge on the scabbard, it has been there a long time and the two prongs on the reverse have been turned over under the leather, the badge is an original grip emblem seen on the DJ hirschfängers.

Hoping this might pique some interest.

Gary

I would guess that with the waffenampt ( looks more like army in this photo) this piece belonged to the Heer Forst ( Army Forestry Service)
That would take care of the H F. The B I would guess is the location.
Since this piece has plain grips ( cheaper ) that IMO would also go along with the idea that it was Army property.
The emblem was no doubt IMO added by whoever it was issued to.
Very interesting and scarce piece.

I Have many of those hunting mags, some bound by year. Let me check out may period catalogs as I have seen this somewhere. It will take a little time.

An Amazing Knife! With Outstanding Craftsmanship.

Yes, the Post War Made PUMA Model 'White Hunter' - bears a close resemblance.
It was initially intended for the Hunter going on an African Safari, thus the
name.

The PUMA Model 'White Hunter' was discontinued for a while - and now it is back
in the PUMA line with Stag or a newer Composite Grip. Txs, Dave/dblmed

Here's the modern Puma lookalike knives, these have been going since the 1950's I believe.

Here's a scan from a 1966/67 catalouge showing Eickhorns products.

I have yet to find a Hubertus catalouge showing their version but I did see a set from this maker for sale in Oct 2007 so I know for sure they made them. Here is a scan of an advertisement in a 1936 Deutsche Jagd hunting magazine.

Gary

Thanks for the information Houston, it's nice to get some positive feedback.
Here's a picture of all 3 sets I have together.

Cheers

Gary

well thats another market you seem to have cornered Gary,magnificent as usual!!!
Paul

Big Knives- The top picture is a Alleweek-Waidblatt and the second one is a back to back squirrel Eickhorn.
photo #1

Photo # 2

Photo # 3
I am sorry I fouled up with this large size?

Ralph,

I'm amazed everytime I take a look at your posts. Those are very nice and actually a first for me. I've only seen a similar type in period catalogs. I know this type sure doesn't pop up very often. Heck, it's been about 5yrs since I last saw the Saufanger type hunting knife w/the wider short blade. Should of bought it. If ever I come across another I'm going for it.
I find it very confusing when it comes to Eickhorn marks. Would you know what time frame that mark was used? I would think a rare mark not seen often or is it? Thanks

Mikee, An excellent reference book for maker marks is: THE SWORD AND KNIFE MAKERS OF GERMANY 1850-2000 by Anthony Carter. Fairly new book 2001, so should be able to locate. James

jager,
This early Eick mark, looks like the one on pg 131, mark "18". I wasn't sure that's why I was asking. Not much info on that mark. Thanks again

Here's another F.Dula that I picked up last year, an award given in my opinion by Walter Frevert the director/chairman of the german bloodhound association during this period. There is a mention of a bloodhound group within the 1937 International Jagdausstellung ( hunting exhibition), I believe this knife was awarded at that time during this exhibition.
You may or may not know that the F.Dula is "nach Frevert" or by Frevert who I believe designed the knife during the mid 1930's. The modern Puma knives are still nach Frevert.

The engraving reads

Internationale Schweißhund Verbands- Prüfung 1937
Führerpreis
d. Fachschaft Bayr Gebirgs- Schweißhunde.

International Bloodhound Association-Review 1937
Leaders-prize
from the Technical Board of Bavarian Mountain Bloodhounds

This is definately an early knife, notice the use of the round black studs for the leather ties, normally you would see a leather toggle.

Gary

Gary:

You never cease to amaze!

John

Nice goodies see you at the SOS...

Gary,

A decent F. Dula garners a "wow". This piece rates a "WOW!!!", just superb my friend.

Gary,

As we all know, delights such as this are the result of diligent study and untold hours of effort spent searching... You're hard work and patience seems to have paid off in spades and you've really set the bar way up high for us with this dandy, much continued good luck!

B~

Fabulous score Gary,if possible even better in the flesh. To re-itterate Bills comments, You get out of this hobby what you put in, and you put in so much.
Congratulations

Paul

Gary, as usual -Just Great. Gives me something else to look far and my list is already too long. They do indeed, make up for a fabulous display. Thanks for sharing again and looking forward to seeing you at the SOS. James

Gary & Ralph --- you guys always put up the best photos and they are usually in more then one version -- thanks for sharing your outstanding knives.

These make my Dress Bayonet lame. I don't think I have ever seen one.

All the comments are much appreciated, these are favourites of mine, I look for this style knife more than anything else nowadays but rarely find them, I must thank Rick Schreiber for pointing me in the right direction,he handled the deal for me. I owe you Rick.

Gary

This is my first day on the site and "WHOOPIE"....I have only ever seen two of these sets in person and bought them both Was wondering how I might locate you at the show of shows?

I hope my pics loaded...............roy

Fantastic knives Royboy, I'm leaving this minute for the show, hopefully we can get together.

Gary

I'd always wondered who made these F.Dula's, I came across a written article regarding this matter, it was in German so thanks to Bill Warda who did the translation we now know a little more on this subject.

Abridged Historical Version of Frevert's "Hunter's Blade..."

In his capacity as a high-ranking forestry official, Walter Frevert wished to bring new life to older hunting customs and traditions, towards this objective he wanted to develop a specialized hunting knife that could be used for a wide variety of purposes.

Together with Master-bladesmith and sword-finisher, Otto Dula, who had a modest workshop and retail store in Marburg, (on the Lahn River) that specialized in edged fighting and hunting weapons, Frevert developed a Standhauer, or heavy machete/Bowie-type knife, with a double-sharpened, lower blade edge and spine, towards the tip, thereby creating almost a right-angle effect, in the mid-1930s.

On a fundemental basis this new Hunter's Blade is closely related to the historically known Praxe, a hunting-weapon/tool having a wide, belly-like cutting edge, that is often portrayed as a hunting-knife or tool, used to free large pieces of game meat.

The unique identification features of this Hunter's Blade are best explained in the 'Gebrauchsmusterschutz' (patent-rights) description given to the German Patent Office on May 1936, for (registering) the "Hunter's Blade - to the specifications of - Walter Frevert."

1. The blade of such knife is widened towards the tip...
2. The blade of such Hunting knife is (also) thicker or rounder at the tip...
3. The handgrip is... very short and concise...

Because the Dula Company didn't have the capacity to produce a substantial number of examples, a deal was discussed with the Solingen firm of Richard Abraham Herder, but then the order was placed with the "Pocket-knife and Surgical Instrument Factory, J.E. Dittert" of Neustadt/Saxony, actually produced the order with the maker marking "F.Dula". Due to Second World War shortages, conscription and compulsive labor policies, only a very small number (of these) could be produced. After the war ended the patent-copyrights expired and a number of other producers were eager to add the (sought-after) "Hunter's Blade" to their product lines. In 1950 the Solingen factory of Carl Eickhorn produced an example having its blade marked, "Original Forstmeister Frevert," most likely due to the expired patent. In 1952 the Puma (blade-producing) company legally registered the word-marking "Forstmeister," and in 1956 the name, "Frevert.," thereby causing the Carl Eickhorn knives to be further marked as, "Hunting Knife Original Eickhorn Solingen". Before working together with Frevert, (before 1956) clearly, the Puma Company had copied the pattern and tooling for the Hunter's Blade. Their initial runs were just marked "Puma Werk Solingen * Made in Germany * Puma-Waidblatt * order number. 3588, therefore, without mention of "Forstmeister Frevert."

Dula/Dittert, Eickhorn and Puma were not the only manufacturers of the Hunter's Blade, there were other models that were either partialy or significantly based in form and style to their (forementioned) similar examples.


Gary

Gary:

Great research on some beautiful and scarce items. And, thank you, Willi Warda.

Do you have or have you seen any of the 50's made Carl Eickhorn pieces?

John

John

I've only seen around 4 sets of Eickhorn Waidblatts, I don't remember if there were any marked as the 1950's types, certainly I will be looking from now on.

Cheers

Gary

Sometimes things just happen for a reason, I must be just lucky I suppose, got an E-Mail out of the blue from a guy in Germany saying he had a photograph of an F.Dula in wear, he sent me this picture and has asked me to put it on this forum, his name is Bernd Eitzeroth, he lives just 60 km from Marburg where these were made, this is as far as he knows the only picture of them in wear and he is gracious enough to share it with us.
The picture is of Mr. Rudolf Insterburg from East Prussia, often in the Rominten game reserve with Walter Frevert, he was given the Dula's directly from Walter Frevert.

I think our collective thanks must go out to Herr Eitzeroth for him sharing this fantastic photograph with us, I know he is a frequent visitor to this forum.

Gary

Gary...Thats a great photo!!!

Thank you very much,Gary best regards to all Fans from Hunting in this beautifull Forum

Waidmannsheil

My apologies to Bernd, the guy in the picture is Rudolf Herrenkind not Rudolf Insterburg, Insterburg was a town near Rominten.

Here is the reverse of the above picture.

Thanks again to Bernd.

Gary

Gary,

This has to be one of the best, most interesting "in-wear" photos I've seen. As Herr Eitzeroth mentions the photo is quite rare and I'm pleased he's decided to share with you and all our forum guests. Just recently there were some excellent "in-wear" pictures that were posted in the SS Dagger forum, and now this exceptional photograph. We've been very fortunate to see these new, classic, informative images.

The fact that the silver/green hunting knot could be worn with with the Dula Jagdmesser should be something extra special to those who are interested in German hunting/forestry sidearms - brilliant !

Many thanks to both of you gentlemen for your generousity, sharing this outstanding photo with us.

Best regards and good collecting to everyone!

Bill

Very interesting guys.
Thanks for sharing!