Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#156933 11/28/2007 05:40 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
O.K mad Limey alert,
Some of you guys know what a F Dula is others will not, I believe these were first seen in advertisements in the German hunting magazines around 1935 so fairly early in the period, I also have reference to them in Deutsche J�gerschaft(DJ) publications up to 1942, quite who were allowed to wear them is unknown I believe as I have not seen any period reference as to the rules of their wear. If anybody has any information or knows who made them I would love to see it. It is assumed by some who know of these knives that they were made by the firm of Lauterjung & Sohn (Puma), this is probably because they made a set very similar to this post war along with both Eickhorn and Hubertus.
So what is an F.Dula, below is the way they are normally seen, whilst I say normally, I doubt that there are more than 10 sets known within our little community possibly only half that.

F_Dula_021_(Medium).jpg (60.43 KB, 878 downloads)
#156934 11/28/2007 05:47 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
What you see above is one set that I own, whatI would point out to you is the unusual rivets through the grip holding the plates on, I don't remember seeing this type of rivet too frequently. Notice also the grips are stag, I suppose for hunting knives it's almost a pre-requisite from this period though there are a couple other materials used though we need not go into them here. It's enough to know that all the other known sets have stag grips, whats the mad limey about now I hear you saying to yourselves, will he just get on with it,well here's something I picked up only last week, came out of Germany, I do not know if they had been in a collection before but I do not think so.

aa_(3)_(Large).jpg (97.74 KB, 867 downloads)
#156935 11/28/2007 06:05 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Add to this strange anomoly the markings on the rear of the leather scabbard, a waffenampt in the shape of an eagle and three larger letters can we conclude that these markings and the different grip plates are related, I have checked both of my other scabbards and they are without any markings.

F_Dula_set_003_(Large).jpg (93.82 KB, 861 downloads)
#156936 11/28/2007 06:13 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
I must say I'm hoping a few of you will give me your opinions, maybe you have seen these rivets or this type of grip plate on other edged weapons, perhaps we can identify the markings on the rear of the scabbard, I think Houston has attributed the eagle mark to the Kreigsmarine, do you agree, anybody know what HFB would stand for, has anybody else got one of these F.Dula's sets either with stag grips or any other types of grips, anything on the rear of the scabbard. For myself I believe the grip plates to be factory applied within the 3rd Reich period, I also believe though I have no proof that these were given or bought for somebody who was in the DJ and also another branch of the services, notice the small DJ badge on the scabbard, it has been there a long time and the two prongs on the reverse have been turned over under the leather, the badge is an original grip emblem seen on the DJ hirschf�ngers.

Hoping this might pique some interest.

Gary

#156937 11/28/2007 08:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229
Likes: 1
I would guess that with the waffenampt ( looks more like army in this photo) this piece belonged to the Heer Forst ( Army Forestry Service)
That would take care of the H F. The B I would guess is the location.
Since this piece has plain grips ( cheaper ) that IMO would also go along with the idea that it was Army property.
The emblem was no doubt IMO added by whoever it was issued to.
Very interesting and scarce piece.


MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
#156938 11/28/2007 10:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 10
Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 10
I Have many of those hunting mags, some bound by year. Let me check out may period catalogs as I have seen this somewhere. It will take a little time.


Collector of Edged Weapon art.
#156939 11/29/2007 04:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 2
An Amazing Knife! With Outstanding Craftsmanship.

Yes, the Post War Made PUMA Model 'White Hunter' - bears a close resemblance.
It was initially intended for the Hunter going on an African Safari, thus the
name.

The PUMA Model 'White Hunter' was discontinued for a while - and now it is back
in the PUMA line with Stag or a newer Composite Grip. Txs, Dave/dblmed

PUMA_1.gif (30.76 KB, 815 downloads)

[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
#156940 11/29/2007 04:27 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Here's the modern Puma lookalike knives, these have been going since the 1950's I believe.

76.jpg (65.42 KB, 792 downloads)
#156941 11/29/2007 04:39 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Here's a scan from a 1966/67 catalouge showing Eickhorns products.

img100_(Large).jpg (98.83 KB, 788 downloads)
1 member likes this: C. Wetzel-20609
#156942 11/29/2007 04:50 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
I have yet to find a Hubertus catalouge showing their version but I did see a set from this maker for sale in Oct 2007 so I know for sure they made them. Here is a scan of an advertisement in a 1936 Deutsche Jagd hunting magazine.

Gary

img101_(Medium).jpg (82.09 KB, 794 downloads)
#156943 11/29/2007 05:12 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Thanks for the information Houston, it's nice to get some positive feedback.
Here's a picture of all 3 sets I have together.

Cheers

Gary

F_Dula_set_011_(Large).jpg (87.38 KB, 779 downloads)
#156944 11/30/2007 03:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 943
P
Offline
P
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 943
well thats another market you seem to have cornered Gary,magnificent as usual!!!
Paul


FUR EHR' UND PFLICHT BIS HERZ UND KLINGE BRICHT
#156945 12/12/2007 06:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,375
Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,375
Big Knives- The top picture is a Alleweek-Waidblatt and the second one is a back to back squirrel Eickhorn.
photo #1

forum_photos_001.jpg (72.51 KB, 696 downloads)
#156946 12/12/2007 06:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,375
Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,375
Photo # 2

forum_photos_002.jpg (72.49 KB, 692 downloads)
#156947 12/12/2007 06:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,375
Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,375
Photo # 3
I am sorry I fouled up with this large size?

forum_photos_005.jpg (27.21 KB, 692 downloads)
#156948 12/14/2007 08:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,871
Likes: 31
Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,871
Likes: 31
Ralph,

I'm amazed everytime I take a look at your posts. Those are very nice and actually a first for me. I've only seen a similar type in period catalogs. I know this type sure doesn't pop up very often. Heck, it's been about 5yrs since I last saw the Saufanger type hunting knife w/the wider short blade. Should of bought it. If ever I come across another I'm going for it.
I find it very confusing when it comes to Eickhorn marks. Would you know what time frame that mark was used? I would think a rare mark not seen often or is it? Thanks

#156949 12/14/2007 10:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 339
Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 339
Mikee, An excellent reference book for maker marks is: THE SWORD AND KNIFE MAKERS OF GERMANY 1850-2000 by Anthony Carter. Fairly new book 2001, so should be able to locate. James

#156950 12/17/2007 12:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,871
Likes: 31
Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,871
Likes: 31
jager,
This early Eick mark, looks like the one on pg 131, mark "18". I wasn't sure that's why I was asking. Not much info on that mark. Thanks again

Mikee #239416 02/13/2011 04:12 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Here's another F.Dula that I picked up last year, an award given in my opinion by Walter Frevert the director/chairman of the german bloodhound association during this period. There is a mention of a bloodhound group within the 1937 International Jagdausstellung ( hunting exhibition), I believe this knife was awarded at that time during this exhibition.
You may or may not know that the F.Dula is "nach Frevert" or by Frevert who I believe designed the knife during the mid 1930's. The modern Puma knives are still nach Frevert.

The engraving reads

Internationale Schwei�hund Verbands- Pr�fung 1937
F�hrerpreis
d. Fachschaft Bayr Gebirgs- Schwei�hunde.

International Bloodhound Association-Review 1937
Leaders-prize
from the Technical Board of Bavarian Mountain Bloodhounds

This is definately an early knife, notice the use of the round black studs for the leather ties, normally you would see a leather toggle.

Gary

dula2sm (Custom).jpg (47.98 KB, 997 downloads)
dula1sm (Custom).jpg (72.02 KB, 994 downloads)
dula4sm (Custom).jpg (53.45 KB, 990 downloads)
dula5sm (Custom).jpg (68.84 KB, 988 downloads)
DSCN0651 (Medium).JPG (34.58 KB, 985 downloads)
Last edited by Baz69; 02/13/2011 04:13 PM.
Baz69 #239418 02/13/2011 04:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Gary:

You never cease to amaze!

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
JohnZ #239444 02/13/2011 11:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 10
Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 10
Nice goodies see you at the SOS...


Collector of Edged Weapon art.
DAMAST #239446 02/14/2011 12:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,135
Likes: 25
Offline
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,135
Likes: 25
Gary,

A decent F. Dula garners a "wow". This piece rates a "WOW!!!", just superb my friend.


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Gary,

As we all know, delights such as this are the result of diligent study and untold hours of effort spent searching... You're hard work and patience seems to have paid off in spades and you've really set the bar way up high for us with this dandy, much continued good luck! wink

B~

WWII #239468 02/14/2011 11:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 943
P
Offline
P
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 943
Fabulous score Gary,if possible even better in the flesh. To re-itterate Bills comments, You get out of this hobby what you put in, and you put in so much.
Congratulations

Paul


FUR EHR' UND PFLICHT BIS HERZ UND KLINGE BRICHT
Paul #239471 02/14/2011 01:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 339
Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 339
Gary, as usual -Just Great. Gives me something else to look far and my list is already too long. They do indeed, make up for a fabulous display. Thanks for sharing again and looking forward to seeing you at the SOS. James

JohnZ #239493 02/14/2011 08:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 86
M
Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 86
Gary & Ralph --- you guys always put up the best photos and they are usually in more then one version -- thanks for sharing your outstanding knives.


Matt
Matt #239519 02/15/2011 02:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,858
Offline
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,858
These make my Dress Bayonet lame. I don't think I have ever seen one.


TKissinger
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
All the comments are much appreciated, these are favourites of mine, I look for this style knife more than anything else nowadays but rarely find them, I must thank Rick Schreiber for pointing me in the right direction,he handled the deal for me. I owe you Rick.

Gary

Baz69 #240085 02/22/2011 10:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6
R
Offline
R
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6
This is my first day on the site and "WHOOPIE"....I have only ever seen two of these sets in person and bought them both Was wondering how I might locate you at the show of shows?


I Always have daggers to trade for fine Indian relics or bowie knives.
Baz69 #240101 02/23/2011 01:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6
R
Offline
R
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6
I hope my pics loaded...............roy

ugh 010.jpg (49.71 KB, 890 downloads)
ugh 012.jpg (55.15 KB, 890 downloads)
ugh 013.jpg (74.8 KB, 884 downloads)

I Always have daggers to trade for fine Indian relics or bowie knives.
royboy #240121 02/23/2011 08:19 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Fantastic knives Royboy, I'm leaving this minute for the show, hopefully we can get together.

Gary

Baz69 #242613 04/03/2011 02:34 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
I'd always wondered who made these F.Dula's, I came across a written article regarding this matter, it was in German so thanks to Bill Warda who did the translation we now know a little more on this subject.

Abridged Historical Version of Frevert's "Hunter's Blade..."

In his capacity as a high-ranking forestry official, Walter Frevert wished to bring new life to older hunting customs and traditions, towards this objective he wanted to develop a specialized hunting knife that could be used for a wide variety of purposes.

Together with Master-bladesmith and sword-finisher, Otto Dula, who had a modest workshop and retail store in Marburg, (on the Lahn River) that specialized in edged fighting and hunting weapons, Frevert developed a Standhauer, or heavy machete/Bowie-type knife, with a double-sharpened, lower blade edge and spine, towards the tip, thereby creating almost a right-angle effect, in the mid-1930s.

On a fundemental basis this new Hunter's Blade is closely related to the historically known Praxe, a hunting-weapon/tool having a wide, belly-like cutting edge, that is often portrayed as a hunting-knife or tool, used to free large pieces of game meat.

The unique identification features of this Hunter's Blade are best explained in the 'Gebrauchsmusterschutz' (patent-rights) description given to the German Patent Office on May 1936, for (registering) the "Hunter's Blade - to the specifications of - Walter Frevert."

1. The blade of such knife is widened towards the tip...
2. The blade of such Hunting knife is (also) thicker or rounder at the tip...
3. The handgrip is... very short and concise...

Because the Dula Company didn't have the capacity to produce a substantial number of examples, a deal was discussed with the Solingen firm of Richard Abraham Herder, but then the order was placed with the "Pocket-knife and Surgical Instrument Factory, J.E. Dittert" of Neustadt/Saxony, actually produced the order with the maker marking "F.Dula". Due to Second World War shortages, conscription and compulsive labor policies, only a very small number (of these) could be produced. After the war ended the patent-copyrights expired and a number of other producers were eager to add the (sought-after) "Hunter's Blade" to their product lines. In 1950 the Solingen factory of Carl Eickhorn produced an example having its blade marked, "Original Forstmeister Frevert," most likely due to the expired patent. In 1952 the Puma (blade-producing) company legally registered the word-marking "Forstmeister," and in 1956 the name, "Frevert.," thereby causing the Carl Eickhorn knives to be further marked as, "Hunting Knife Original Eickhorn Solingen". Before working together with Frevert, (before 1956) clearly, the Puma Company had copied the pattern and tooling for the Hunter's Blade. Their initial runs were just marked "Puma Werk Solingen * Made in Germany * Puma-Waidblatt * order number. 3588, therefore, without mention of "Forstmeister Frevert."

Dula/Dittert, Eickhorn and Puma were not the only manufacturers of the Hunter's Blade, there were other models that were either partialy or significantly based in form and style to their (forementioned) similar examples.


Gary

1 member likes this: C. Wetzel-20609
Baz69 #242615 04/03/2011 04:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Gary:

Great research on some beautiful and scarce items. And, thank you, Willi Warda.

Do you have or have you seen any of the 50's made Carl Eickhorn pieces?

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
JohnZ #242621 04/03/2011 06:37 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
John

I've only seen around 4 sets of Eickhorn Waidblatts, I don't remember if there were any marked as the 1950's types, certainly I will be looking from now on.

Cheers

Gary

Baz69 #278490 02/23/2013 09:37 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Sometimes things just happen for a reason, I must be just lucky I suppose, got an E-Mail out of the blue from a guy in Germany saying he had a photograph of an F.Dula in wear, he sent me this picture and has asked me to put it on this forum, his name is Bernd Eitzeroth, he lives just 60 km from Marburg where these were made, this is as far as he knows the only picture of them in wear and he is gracious enough to share it with us.
The picture is of Mr. Rudolf Insterburg from East Prussia, often in the Rominten game reserve with Walter Frevert, he was given the Dula's directly from Walter Frevert.

I think our collective thanks must go out to Herr Eitzeroth for him sharing this fantastic photograph with us, I know he is a frequent visitor to this forum.

Gary

Dulawearprotected.jpg (46.09 KB, 808 downloads)
Last edited by WWII; 02/24/2013 12:44 PM.
Baz69 #278510 02/24/2013 12:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
E
Offline
E
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
Gary...Thats a great photo!!!


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3
H
Offline
H
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3
Thank you very much,Gary best regards to all Fans from Hunting in this beautifull Forum

Waidmannsheil

Last edited by hornung; 02/24/2013 09:25 AM.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
Baz69 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 31
My apologies to Bernd, the guy in the picture is Rudolf Herrenkind not Rudolf Insterburg, Insterburg was a town near Rominten.

Here is the reverse of the above picture.

Thanks again to Bernd.

Gary

Herrenkind ,Rudolf (Small).JPG (102.61 KB, 811 downloads)
Baz69 #278524 02/24/2013 11:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Gary,

This has to be one of the best, most interesting "in-wear" photos I've seen. As Herr Eitzeroth mentions the photo is quite rare and I'm pleased he's decided to share with you and all our forum guests. Just recently there were some excellent "in-wear" pictures that were posted in the SS Dagger forum, and now this exceptional photograph. We've been very fortunate to see these new, classic, informative images.

The fact that the silver/green hunting knot could be worn with with the Dula Jagdmesser should be something extra special to those who are interested in German hunting/forestry sidearms - brilliant !

Many thanks to both of you gentlemen for your generousity, sharing this outstanding photo with us.

Best regards and good collecting to everyone!

Bill

WWII #278532 02/24/2013 03:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,024
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,024
Likes: 2
Very interesting guys.
Thanks for sharing!

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,268,179 SS Bayonets
1,765,087 Teno Insignia Set
1,134,408 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
EK 2 Round 3
by Dutchman - 05/20/2024 11:45 PM
Can you determine authenticity of SS dagger?
by AnatoliyD - 05/17/2024 04:22 PM
SS dagger KM7/91
by zwoerf - 05/17/2024 06:56 AM
My first bayonet
by Cameron - 05/16/2024 03:33 PM
How do flotation tubs differ from traditional bathtubs?
by Aquant Seo - 05/16/2024 11:25 AM
Latest New Posts
Can you determine authenticity of SS dagger?
by AnatoliyD - 05/22/2024 06:33 AM
Obviously rare portepee
by Mikee - 05/22/2024 12:04 AM
nsdap
by Gaspare - 05/21/2024 11:57 PM
Rings & Things for the MAX
by Gaspare - 05/21/2024 02:55 PM
My first bayonet
by Cameron - 05/21/2024 11:54 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,685
Posts329,303
Members7,538
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
10 members (AnatoliyD, Gerrit1963, kreta1961, The_Collector, polop, benten, Sasha, Documentalist, atis, Feodor), 126 guests, and 201 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5