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#15630 11/02/2009 11:13 PM
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Great Schellhorn Terry! Just when I was thinking I had enough you go inspiring me to find one of those variations, ha. Actually your variation is the scarcest of the 3 IMO & now that I know Terry's looking for one, I'm really in a pickle Smile


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#15631 11/03/2009 12:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TKissinger:
Now I know where I got those photos from. Nice pair I don't have. Hear I missed you at the gun show last Sat. Talked to Dick H. for awhile. Got my rooms for the SOS is Feb. maybe I'll find some treasures.

Sorry I missed you Terry. I knew Pat was going to the Humane Society Shelter so I left the gun show early. Not early enough however. This is what was waiting for me when I got home.

100_5933_(Medium).JPG (72.59 KB, 566 downloads)

WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
#15632 11/03/2009 12:26 AM
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There is an up-side however. Pat never noticed what I brought home from the gun show. A nice "a" block P640(b).
Sorry Billy - back to the FW stuff. Great thread!

100_5966-3_(Medium).jpg (62.43 KB, 559 downloads)

WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
#15633 11/03/2009 01:10 AM
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Denny,

Thanks! I hope you can add some of your nice pieces to this thread like last time. For what it's worth, I think you did OK with the pooch & pistol. Humane Society is the way to go too. He looks cute, a worthy compromise Smile


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#15634 11/04/2009 02:51 AM
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I thought I would add one to the unit marked FW'S. Billy should know this one Smile Terry some time back gave me info on the abbreviation. FEU = Fire LTG = Adminstration. or in German Feuer Leitung. it is tm marked Horster

Denny, looks like you have a full house now. is he/she a bayo collector yet

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Looking for PP mag # 981029
#15635 11/04/2009 02:57 AM
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Looking for PP mag # 981029
#15636 11/04/2009 04:26 AM
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Steven, she's not a bayonet collector yet but she IS a brat!

Here is another marked one for your consideration - Eickhorn/219

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WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
#15637 11/04/2009 04:28 AM
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Eickhorn/219

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WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
#15638 11/04/2009 05:10 AM
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Denny:

I love your Eick, but then I like Eick.

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
#15639 11/04/2009 10:52 PM
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This is not a new one but goes along with Dennys.

How about a nice WKC W/C.A. STAEHLE distributor and inventory number 399, scabbard also stamped





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#15640 11/04/2009 11:50 PM
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Steve,

Wow, I sold you that piece? What the hell was I thinking? Seriously, I knew it was going to a good home. Thanks to Terry too for the translation. I figured "FEU" was for Feuerwehr but was drawing a blank on the "LTG". Administration makes sense too.


Denny,

That's a sweet Eick rig, really nothing not to like on such a piece. You can really never go wrong on an Eick that's conditioned like this. I'm with John, I like Eick too Smile


Terry,

I remember that piece, a real stunner. You've got the trifecta there, nice rare distributor, dual marked with a maker & inventory numbered. Really super piece & I dig the numbering on the scabbard throat. Just a great piece, please keep me in mind if you ever lose yours & decide to sell it Smile

Here's my example with the Staehle mark on the obverse ricasso which it seems is a variation of yours. I searched long & hard to find this one & if memory serves paid a bunch for it but I haven't seen one since so there you go.

cockblocker.JPG (91.42 KB, 494 downloads)

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#15641 11/04/2009 11:54 PM
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Another nice part about my Staehle is that it's dual marked, not WKC, this one has an Eick '35-'41 mark. It's also inventory numbered on the reverse crossguard although the scabbard is not so marked. The font looks similar to the one on Denny's but very different from Terry's.

These marks are on a long model with magnetic pommel which is quite unusual since the '35-'41 mark is usually seen with later production nonmagnetic pommels. This is only the 1st or 2nd '35-'41 Eick that I've seen with magnetic hilt.

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#15642 11/05/2009 12:06 AM
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Here's another obscure distributor, Hans Krämer Nürnberg. Seen this one maybe once or twice other than this one so while they're out there, they just ain't that common Smile This bad boy came from Eban at a time when I had to have the seller reiterate the name several times. "You're sure it's Kramer?".

This mark is on the obverse ricasso of a nicely conditioned short model with magnetic pommel. The reverse ricasso is marked "Garantie Solingen".

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#15643 11/05/2009 12:15 AM
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Another obscure mark, that of Sautter Lahr. I believe the town of Lahr near the Black Forest to be the location which leads me to believe Sautter is the name of a distributor. Nice early piece with a tan felt blade buffer.

Things came full circle on this piece, it was on Eban years back & I got sniped at the end. At the time it was more than I wanted to pay for it but silly me, I knew this was a rare mark. But all was not lost, when the buyer was selling his collection years later I was in the right place at the right time.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of a nicely conditioned & early long model with magnetic pommel.

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#15644 11/05/2009 06:50 PM
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Billy or(and) terry any chance of an overall pic of all your fw's ? just so the rest of us with merely a handful can enjoy , billy i'm still looking for more info on what i agree with you is the distributor mark J.H.W.-E I will find out who they are eventually, i have been quite successful in the past with other obscure markings on various militaria , it just takes an age traweling through various references any help would be much appreciated :-)

#15645 11/05/2009 10:42 PM
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Hi Will,

Unusual I agree but I don't have a group shot of my fire pieces. At last count it was between 105 - 110 so it would have to be a wide shot. I'm sure Terry has a group shot of his bunch though.


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#15647 11/06/2009 02:15 AM
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wow
Very nice collection TKissinger.
Can you show some close pictures of EPACK plain
bayonets.
Thanks Stingray

#15648 11/06/2009 11:46 PM
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Stingray

Check on Monday.


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#15649 11/07/2009 03:47 PM
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Terry,

Great display options, I always enjoy seeing your stuff. Especially that oak cabinet, it's exactly what I've been looking for & just can't seem to find locally. I found a couple several thousand miles away but the shipping was ridiculous. Thanks for the kind words too Wink


Ray,

Been meaning to post the E. Pack examples but hadn't gotten around to it. I've observed a total of 5 Pack logos on fire bayonets however there may be more as Pack had lots of logo variations. Until recently I only had 2 & while actively looking had still missed out on a few opportunities over the years. If anyone has others, please post 'em for everyone.

This was my first Pack, a pretty typical example of mid period production with adequate plating but not nearly as good as some of the earlier pieces. It's a nice logo incorporating a striking Wotan with the Pack name & location of Solingen underneath. Sadly I didn't have the appreciation for Pack when I got this that I do now, the main reason I got it was because of the spanner nut grip configuration which was a new one for me. Thanks to DD Harris for this one.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of a long model with nonmagnetic pommel & spanner nut grip plate configuration.

patmytool1.JPG (96.36 KB, 364 downloads)

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#15650 11/07/2009 03:57 PM
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This one was my second Pack logo which showed a striking Wotan flaked to the right by the company's name & location in larger letters than the previous example. Also by comparison this one seems much earlier judging by it's weight & construction.

Interestingly the grip rivets are not offset as so many Pack products seem to display. Wayne Techet had mentioned in his tome "German Etched Dress Bayonets" that this fact was likely explained by Pack purchasing parts for it's Feuerwehr & Pioniere style estra seitengewehre from other manufacturers. Makes a lot of sense. This one came from the bowels of Eban back in the day, cheaply too but that was when you could still get plenty of bargains there.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of an early production short model with wide blood groove & magnetic pommel.

patmytool2.JPG (98.98 KB, 586 downloads)

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#15651 11/07/2009 04:12 PM
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This is the so called Siegfried Pack logo which we've all seen on Heer/Luftwaffe daggers & a number of other dress daggers as well as dress bayonets. But finding a nicely conditioned fire example wasn't as easy. I know DD Harris had a beauty for a while but when I finally woke up, alas it was gone. Serves me right.

The logo is nice & ornate & it seems to convey old Ernst P. having a lot of pride in his wares. The ubiquitous Wotan is ever present surrounded by a stylized "S" for Siegfried Waffen. The lettering while still in block letters, is somewhat more stylized than in the previous examples. From what I've read here on GD, this logo is usually seen on later produced pieces. With respect to this bayonet I believe that to be the case from it's overall quality, nice but not nearly as nice as the earlier done pieces. The grip plates show typical Pack offset rivets.

This mark is on a later production long model with nonmagnetic pommel.

patmytool3.JPG (95.04 KB, 584 downloads)

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#15652 11/07/2009 04:18 PM
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I had an opportunity to acquire this variation a few years ago & I screwed up & let it pass me by. A stupid move since this was maybe the only time I had seen the logo too. Anyway I endeavored to snag it the next time I saw a nicely conditioned example & happily I had the chance this summer.

This Pack variation shows Wotan centered in the ricasso, bordered on top by Pack's initials "EP&S" & on the bottom by the factory's location & something not usually seen on Pack's logo, the term "ges gesch" (patent pending). The mark is nicely centered & deeply stamped. I've read that this logo is a later variation for Pack but don't know that to be the case judging from this piece which shows very nice construction & early quality parts.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of a long model with magnetic pommel.

patmytool4.JPG (66.63 KB, 582 downloads)

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#15653 11/07/2009 04:22 PM
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This was the final Pack variation that I acquired recently. I've seen it maybe twice but always after it had been sold. Those observed were identical to this example in that all were early production short model bayonets. The logo, which must have acheived some element of buyer recognition by this time, consists merely of a striking Wotan centered on the ricasso. No name, no location, no patent pending, nada, just Wotan. Sorta like all those celebutards nowadays that are known by only their first names, Pack must have known their plainest logo would still be recognized. The grip plates show nonPack centered rivets.

This mark is on the obverse ricasso of a very nicely conditioned short model with wide blood groove & magnetic pommel

patmytool5.JPG (95.55 KB, 582 downloads)

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#15654 11/07/2009 04:25 PM
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Here's the view from the previous example's reverse ricasso, "Garantie Solingen". Some think this is some sort of local guarantee that the piece was produced in Solingen which is probably the case IMO. Some others think this might have been a local distributor. Whatever it is, we don't see the mark too often.

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#15655 11/07/2009 06:50 PM
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Billy,
What a great thread! I really enjoy you taking the time to show off your collection.

I see the mark "Garantie Solingen" on a lot of straight razors, pocket knifes and have seen a genick with this mark.

#15656 11/09/2009 01:01 AM
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Gee, I don't think I can add to what Billy has already posted on E. Pack fire bayonets.


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#15657 11/09/2009 01:43 AM
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Terry,

I had some time this weekend, sorry Smile Have you seen any other Pack variations not pictured on fire or Heer/Luft bayonets? I racked my records but didn't see any others on any type of bayonet in my records.



Mikee,

Thanks very much for the kind words. I'd been meaning to restart the thread for a long while but didn't have the time. Now that it's started I'm glad to be getting these pieces back up & am happy the brothers are enjoying the show. Please feel free to throw anything Feuerwehr you've got up there.


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#15658 11/14/2009 01:34 AM
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Here's a fire bayonet with the scarce mark of Baron. Way back we thought Baron was probably just a small obscure maker or distributor. Fisher's guide lists Baron as a distributor who marked Heer daggers, combat knives & bayonets. It was Terry Kissinger & Denny Gaither who were able to deduce that Baron was actually a distributor mark for Gottfried Weyersberg Söhne KG, Solingen.

There's a thread somewhere back in the bowels of the BCN forum but essentially it boiled down to a Baron mark on one of Denny's bayonets (not this type) that showed a trophy cup with 3 stars. Someone remembered that this same mark with the cup & stars was used on Weyersberg's SA daggers which made the connection. Thanks to our very own Bob Iqbal & Jim Taylor who were kind enough to find this one for me.

This mark is on the obverse ricasso of a long model with nonmagnetic pommel.

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#15659 11/14/2009 01:41 AM
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Here's a very nice unit with the old salt logo of CD Schaaf, Solingen. This is another one of those really scarce (rare?) marks that you hardly if ever find on a bayonet let alone a fire bayonet. Never seen another before or since so I guess it's a keeper. Fisher's lists Schaaf as starting production in 1871, as also evidenced by the maker mark.

This bayonet is in super overall condition showing early production quality & an Eickhorn hilt, similar to a number of other examples I have of seldom seen, early produced bayonets that seem to all have been made by Eick. You can see the beautifully elongated crossguard in the pic. Many thanks to Rick Schreiber for this one.

This old salt is on the reverse ricasso of a minty long model with magnetic pommel.

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#15660 11/14/2009 01:54 AM
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I believe Paul Seilheimer marked bayonets have been observed showing a total of 3 maker marks, the dog with sword, the sword with martini glass & the PS initials in a circle with the last one being the only mark I've seen on a fire bayonet. Who knows, they may be out there though. Seilheimer marked fire bayonets are relatively scarce although they do pop up on dealer sites & occasionally on Eban so they're out there. This one came from Eban way back when. Fisher's guide shows pics of all three & states that Seilheimer closed it's doors in 1970.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of a long model with nonmagnetic pommel.

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#15661 11/14/2009 02:08 AM
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Wüsthof is a name well known to edged weapon enthusiasts. Even non collectors are familiar with Ed. Wüsthof Dreizackwerk's trident logo marked carving knives sold in department stores. Somewhat lesser known is Carl Wüsthof Gladiatorwerk. While Carl Wüsthof marked SA daggers are somewhat common, other type blades are not so much with Wüsthof being credited as also producing Heer daggers & HJ knives. I previously had a HJ honor bayonet with stag grips, etched pommel & SS logo on the blade by Wüsthof, also marked "Gladiator".

This example came to me from Eban & was one of my first fire bayonets. Even though I was unable to afford many of the expensive daggers, I loved that I was still able to obtain something nice that was wartime produced with these marks & this one was no exception. according to Fisher's guide, old Carl's company was still in operation as late as 2002.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of a minty short model with narrow blood groove & magnetic pommel.

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#15662 11/14/2009 02:17 AM
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Last one for the night, a scarce distributor marked example by Peter Wolter Söhne Eschweiler. While the bayonet is not maker marked, the hilt configuration looks to be a Höller or Lauterjung product. This is another one of those distributors that I've only observed on fire bayonets. Fisher's also only attributes Wolter's mark only to fire bayonets. This nice piece was another product of Eban back in the day.

This mark is on the obverse ricasso of a long model with nonmagnetic pommel.

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#15663 11/18/2009 11:06 AM
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great topic! here's my newly arrived Zeitler-Wien Feuerwher bayo, it has a weapon number (106). regards.

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#15664 11/18/2009 11:07 AM
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#15665 11/18/2009 03:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Billy G.:
Here's a fire bayonet with the scarce mark of Baron. Way back we thought Baron was probably just a small obscure maker or distributor. Fisher's guide lists Baron as a distributor who marked Heer daggers, combat knives & bayonets. It was Terry Kissinger & Denny Gaither who were able to deduce that Baron was actually a distributor mark for Gottfried Weyersberg Söhne KG, Solingen.

There's a thread somewhere back in the bowels of the BCN forum but essentially it boiled down to a Baron mark on one of Denny's bayonets (not this type) that showed a trophy cup with 3 stars. Someone remembered that this same mark with the cup & stars was used on Weyersberg's SA daggers which made the connection. Thanks to our very own Bob Iqbal & Jim Taylor who were kind enough to find this one for me.

This mark is on the obverse ricasso of a long model with nonmagnetic pommel.


Hi Billy,
Sorry to be so long in replying to your Baron comments. I would respectfully suggest that "Baron" is a trademark for Gottfried Weyersberg Söhne rather than a distributor mark? I have no further info to support this supposition; it just seems to be a logical assumption.
Here is a picture of the trademark. Sorry to report it as a KS98 blade rather than one of your "babies".

KS_Baron-1.jpg (24.3 KB, 473 downloads)

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#15666 11/19/2009 02:50 AM
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Denny,

Thanks for chiming in my friend. Now THAT'S the piece I was referring to, thanks too for posting it. No matter that it's a KS98 Wink I've got a soft spot for those as well, maybe too much but I'd kill for a fire bayonet with that mark.

Thinking about it you're probably right that Baron is more likely a trade name for Weyersberg as opposed to a distributor. I mean, how many makers had an exclusive distributor? Not many I surmise.


Nacho,

Thanks for sharing your Zeitler. There really aren't many out there, I've seen just 4 of them in about 10 years of looking. Terry's got a nice minty example with a lengthy inventory type number stamped into the pommel backstrap. I bought a minty long model from Eric Wien but sold it to GD member Remus all the way in Belgium. You've got a nice inventory marked one & here's my short model with wide blood groove.

This piece came from collector/dealer Mike Warren many moons ago. It had an odd haze on it that I thought was just the remains of lost plating but it wasn't. A brisk polish took off most of the haze leaving a nice bright & completely plated hilt, a nice surprise. This picture was taken prior to my polish so you can still see some of the faze on the crossguard.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of a minty short model with nonmagnetic pommel.

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#15667 11/19/2009 02:59 AM
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Here's a rare distributor mark that I've seen just this once, Karl Volkmer, Dresden A16. I think the only other distributor that I've noticed with the postal code was Horst Wolff. The Saufanger Kid acquired it & shipped it across the pond for me, many thanks mate!

This mark is on the obverse ricasso of a long model with magnetic pommel & dual marked to Eickhorn.

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#15668 11/19/2009 03:01 AM
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Here's the reverse ricasso with the Eickhorn '35-'41 mark. Fire bayonets that are dual marked with distributor & manufacturer are pretty scarce so it's always nice to find one with a rare mark.

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#15669 11/20/2009 03:16 AM
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Most of you guys have seen this before, but here is my Zeitler w/inventor number. I came across this one at an SOS show a few years ago.I bought 10 or 11 dress bayonets from one dealer and was so excited that I didn't even see the enventory number until I was showing it to Denny.



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#15670 11/20/2009 05:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TKissinger:
Most of you guys have seen this before, but here is my Zeitler w/inventor number. I came across this one at an SOS show a few years ago.I bought 10 or 11 dress bayonets from one dealer and was so excited that I didn't even see the enventory number until I was showing it to Denny.



Ah yes, the great bayonet caper of the 2005 SOS!


WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
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