UBB.threads Forums General Militaria Flags, Field Gear, and Miscellaneous Militaria and Regalia Forum Real or Fake Allach ?

I was wondering what everyone thought about this piece.

Thank you !

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Here's the one auctioned by Hermann Historica last week......

Here's their description:

"Entwurf Professor Wilhelm Krieger, Modellnummer "111". Weißes, glasiertes Porzellan, die Schwanzfedern beschliffen. Im Boden Signatur, Modellnummer und grün unterglasierte Manufakturmarke im Oktogon. Höhe 10 cm."

Cheers
Don

They both look very similar.

Received an e.mail from Kris and he has given me his thumbs up on it.

...chirp.chirp!. . Congrats Pat! I'm still looking for my First piece of Allach.

That piece is called the "Great Tit"..here is mine. About to be attacked by some beetles!

Mark

Pat, the one you showed had some 'stubby toe nails' (short and not high arched) compared to the ones Don and I showed. The high arch's on those two are very different than the short stubby ones on the one you posted. It could be a fluke in that individual piece, but it detracts from the intricate detail of the piece. Can you see what I mean?

Mark

I'd also say that the rear claw has been broken off at the end of the toe on the one Pat has posted. It should touch the branch....

Gents,

I have to hand it to Don for having such keen eyesight/perception, a great spot mate!

Mark, there are some great beetles crawling around in your case, can we see a couple of nice closeups whenever you get a chance?

Pat, do you know someone who can fix it, I'm sure you do..? If it's priced right it might be worth it just to have the piece? What do you fellas think of good restorations on this type of stuff?

Thanks to all!

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by kingtiger:
Pat, the one you showed had some 'stubby toe nails' (short and not high arched) compared to the ones Don and I showed. The high arch's on those two are very different than the short stubby ones on the one you posted. It could be a fluke in that individual piece, but it detracts from the intricate detail of the piece. Can you see what I mean?

Mark

Hello Mark,

It took me a while before I could understand what you meant but I'm now seeing it and does indeed, seems different.
I will take a closer look at it when I get home tonite. I will also post close up pics.

Pat

Bill,I think as Allach pieces become more scarce in the future collectors will buy more of the imperfect pieces for their collections and have them repaired. Repaired "very rare" pieces the value doesn't seem to be effected much so who knows with repaired common pieces in the future? What do you think?

Obviously, the back toe nails are missing.
Since it was the first piece like that I had ever seen, there was no way for me to tell.
Will call the dealer tomorrow and ask for a refund. The Allach was bought at the Max show last year.
I'm surprised that the dealer didn't realised that the toe nails were missing.

Patrice,

You can see the little pimple where the nails once connected. Who sold it ?

Dave

The Allach actually does not belong to me but to my friend Stephane.
He wishes to keep the dealer's name private, until the matter is resolve.
I have no doubt that the dealer is honest and will fix it.
My friend paid full retail for it ( $ 1300 ) and it was never mentioned that the piece was broken.

I have seen a few of the "tit" because I would like to add one,BUT,not easy to find one
where the claws or the feathers on the end of that long tail have suffered.Always look.
There was one on Hermann Historica last week.
Nicked tail.In fact I think about 75% of the Allach had damage or been repaired.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

Friends,

In my opinion this nice bird is difficult to find and therefore deserves to be restored if it can be accomplished at a fair price and by a decent restoration artist. I think a good price for the conservation would be around $250-300 range.

If that's 'do-able'
then this would make for a great addition to anyone's Allach/porcelain collection.

Do I think it's a good idea to get a piece fixed
by a competent craftsman? Yes, in certain cases -
when it's a rare model, (as much of the Allach is) a favorite artist perhaps, or just simply that your insurance covers the damaged item.
Some badly broken/damaged pieces are just plain beyond hope and capital outlay.

If someone can repair an item so that it's either very difficult or impossible to detect, I can certainly live with that ...

Hope this works out good for you Pat.

Best to all!

Bill

Getting it fixed is no problem.
I have a friend of mine who's in charge of restoring rare artifacts for the Canadian National Museum.
He has restored in the past, Chinese porcelains that dated back from the XIV Century.
He also restored for me an Allach piece to perfection. I sold it on Ebay and surprisingly enought, it went for full retail eventhough it was mentioned as being restored.
I did say however in my description that it was impossible for anyone to tell of it had been restored or not.
A dealer bought from me.

I,ll buy that Bill,trouble is finding a competent "Expert".Hermanns "Drummer Boy"was
so badly done.His right arm had been broken at the rolled sleeve joint and put back at the wrong angle showing the repair in all its glory.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

Pat,

It would be another little gem for you if it works ..?

Seiler,

I've seen pieces that were fixed, sometimes,
the same one in three different poses, and all different from the original catalog photo, ha! If someone will honestly say,
"hey, I've had this fixed, right here..." and point something out, if they know it to be a fact, then that person gets my respect,
period, fini, das ende!

Good hunting, mates!

W~

Ps here's a lovely 1935 heron that was left as a students project... it was busticated well beyond insurance value .. heh. live and learn,
eh men? ratfarts ..!

Hello Everyone,

The Bird (Kohlmeise/Great Tit) in question was sold at the MAX Show at the Allach Porcelain.com table. I've had the bird in my collection for some time and traded the bird to Jim Cash months prior to the MAX Show.

After being contacted by the current owner and seeing the photos shown on this site as well as the ones sent to me, I find if perplexing as to how I could have missed such a obvious defect. All bird figures are rare and this is the second Kohlmeise I have had so I had an idea of what to look for. I'm also surprised that Jim didn't see the obvious jagged edges as to where the back talons should have been when he received the bird in trade. This is quite obvious in looks and certainly to the touch. I inspect all the Allach I have and certainly touch all the edges to make sure there are no small chips present. Have I ever missed a good repair? Yes I have. I've sold pieces that the repair was so good that I was unable to determine the slight damage. In the white porcelain, old repairs yellow over time and I've had pieces start to show a slight yellowing even after I thought the piece was mint. But I sell the pieces as repaired if I can determine such a repair exists. The company Allach sent out a pink slip with every piece of porcelain stating that if were to arrive damaged during shipment, to please send it back to the Company and Allach will repair it. I would think it would be evry difficult to determine a repair by Allach. I don't repair pieces unless the Customer request to have this done or if the piece is so rare that restoring it would make better sense. The Painted SS Rider comes to mind as I had it restored because the tips of the ears were damaged and so was one of the reins. The Jumping Horse #74 was sold at the MAX that had been repaired. Both front legs had damage but since it was a rare piece, I had it restored. The owner didn't care about the restoration and purchased the piece for more money than I had sold a mint version for a few years back. Sometimes the new owner feels it's better to have a repaired piece than no piece at all especially if the piece in question is very rare and difficult to obtain.

I would also like to add that AllachPorcelain.com is not liable for a piece that may have been damaged by the owner. Porcelain is not like other German Militaria in which you can handle it without worrying about causing it any harm. Porcelain is fragile and if one decides to clean an area and accidently breaks a piece off, then the owner is at fault not the seller. Not to say that this happened in this particular situation involving the Kohlmeise.

We are working with the current owner in trying to resolve this matter in which I'm sure we will.

Dennis R. Porell
AllachPorcelain.com Director

quote:

Originally posted by Dennis Porell:
Hello Everyone,



I find if perplexing as to how I could have missed such a obvious defect. All bird figures are rare and this is the second Kohlmeise I have had so I had an idea of what to look for. I'm also surprised that Jim didn't see the obvious jagged edges as to where the back talons should have been when he received the bird in trade. This is quite obvious in looks and certainly to the touch.

We are working with the current owner in trying to resolve this matter in which I'm sure we will.

Dennis R. Porell
AllachPorcelain.com Director

I have no doubt that M. Porell and M. Cash are honest and respectable dealers and that they will insure that everyone be satisfied.

If I can add just one small thing, I was at the Max with Stephane (shared the same hotel room at the show) when he bought that Allach and I can give you my word that the Allach didn't have its toe nails in the back.

Many GDC members have known Stephane for years, whether it be Mark Paul, Kris L. and many others, and they will tell you that there ain't one person more honest than him.
He would never, ever do such a thing as saying that the Allach had any flaws if he was in any ways, responsible for the damage.

Stephane bought the allach 7 months ego at the Max and there was no way for him to know if the piece had been damaged or not.
How could he ? This was his first porcelain, he had no reference or knowledge in the matter and this is why he bought it from a reliable source.
When I first posted the pics on the forum, neither Stephane or myself knew about the flaws and only wanted to have an opinion on the piece itself.
It is Mark Paul and Don that actually told us about the porcelain having some flaws to it.
If I hadn't posted the allach on the forum, no one would've known about it and it would still be sitting in Stephane's collection.

I do not comprehend as to why a refund is out of the question, just because it has been 7 months past ?
If a piece is wrong, whether it be just a month or a year, it doesn't matter.
Only integrity counts, with ot without the time factor.
Why buy from a dealer then ?

I can honestly say that the piece had its nails broken when he got the piece at the Max.

It is impossible for anyone to know about it unless he already seen that type of porcelain before.
Even myself, with my picky eyes can't even see the flaws without taking a magnifying glass.

How in the world were we supposed to know about it.

We are not even talking about an expensive artifact here, it is just 1300 $, which is not a lot of money for many but it is a hell of a lot for Stephane.

Why do I feel the need to defend Stephane ?
Quite simply because he would rather loose all his money than go into an argument and that, I cannot accept it.
No, he never would've bother you if he had broken the piece himself.
He is not that kind of person.


Hope it will come to a gentlemen solution.

I wish I had gone to that MAX and seen that bird there. Dennis and I have done a ton of business with absolutely no problems and this is a tough case. He definitely knows his Allach and for a piece with this obvious damage to get by him is really a stretch. Everyone makes an error now and then and without having actually seen the piece at the time of purchase no one who was not there can make any comment of fact, but only a guess.

This piece is worth more than Stephane paid plus the cost of repairs by a good margin. If you cannot come to some agreement, my advice would be to have it repaired and then always buy Allach with someone knowledgeable about it present at the shows. Kris L. saved me $2K, along with Dennis's help at one SOS show on a bad (copy) rearing horse.

The seller and buyer here seem to be honorable people and I am very hesitant to state any fact as just a reader of the post. I sure hope it ends with everyone feeling treated fairly. I think it could be sold for what Stephane paid in it's current condition. If the claws are all that is wrong...I know it could.

Mark

Hello,

I am the current owner of this piece and I wish to inform this forum that an agreement has been reached. My sincere thanks to Dennis Porell and Jim Cash, two true gentlemen.

I'll second that, always knew that they were "top notch".

The things I learned from this post.

1) If you deal honorably with honorable people, the end result will be the right result.

2) No matter how much you know and how much the people around you know, mistakes will happen.

3) And, errors can be made and rectified without the finger pointing and name calling that is so easy to get into.

My hats off to all involved in this. I remember Stephane showing me this bird at the show and being really impressed by it and by Stephane's pleasure in finding his very first piece of Allach.

I myself own only one Allach, a Julleuchter, and at some point want some 'real' porcelain.

So, this example of a problem found and fixed makes it a lot easier for me to contemplate buying one.

Pat, you are a good friend, and Stephane, you are a lucky man to have friends like Pat and Kris and Mark and everyone else.

John