UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum TD. Gravity knife by Voos?

Hey guys,
I picked this beauty up at the SOS. I had never seen a Voos gravity knife (and the price was RIGHT), after buying it I found out many others had never seen one either, so I thought I would post it. It all seems to "check" out. Every part seems to be stamped (usually internally). I can post better pics. as needed, (these are a little blurry) But I wanted to hear if anyone else had seen one.
Anyway, here it is...

reverse

#3
Amt stamp

Number

Open

Maker Mark

I look forward to hearing from others also, it looked good in person although I hadn't ever seen a Voos take down myself until this one. Hope to hear input from other members that collect this type!! You will probably have Roy Carroll after this one Johnny, I think he is a Voos collector.

The knife is in great shape, I can take internal pics. if requested. The whole thing is "blued" even the spine of the blade. There is a little surface rust on the back of the "crossguard". I was wanting to ask how this could be removed, with as little damage to the "bluing" as possible. Also, what can I clean the surfaces with that will not hard the bluing.
Thanks in advance!!!
Johnny

Nice Johnny,I heard a soft #2 pencil lead will take light rust off with out hurting anything.Maybe someone can say for sure if this is true.
Shawn

Looks very nice to me. I have not seen a Voos gravity knife at all, let alone a take-down.

THATS a beauty!! NEVER seen a Voos Gravity knife! Kevin.

Hey guys,
I went ahead and asked both Mr. Shea and Whittmann, neither of them have ever seen a Voos Gravity at all! Getting interesting!

What let me think a little is the fact that the mm is exacly the same like on the spurious Olympic Youth knives by VOOS, see eg. http://www.wehrmacht-awards.net/forums/showthread.php?t=125357
and it is a minute varation of a period VOOS mm which I have not seen up to now on a without any doubt period blade.
Also it is a fact, that there are a lot of new made paratrooper knife blades at german shows, with a lot of different mm´s (nearly whatever you want) and it is easy to put one of them into a take down model.
Would like to see this exact etched mm on a period blade, that would help a lot.

A late issue R.B. Nr marked used but decent enough take down gravity knife. With an almost mint “Voos” trademarked blade in it?? Most regrettably I’m not getting a good feeling at all about the combination, and wish that I could see of the examples that Wotan mentioned for comparison purposes.

PS: The “Olympic” youth knives are really a different topic. But do indicate that high grade fakes can be or have been made that are capable of deceiving collectors and presumably some dealers. FP

b Hi Wotan,this is a Voss mm of an SA dagger,you can see there is a difference. Regards nats


http://stan-the-man.tk

Hang on just a second. Emil Voos used several different etches with variations is detail.

Following are just Army dagger etches:

2

3

4

5
Then there are Luft, SA, and perhaps others

I cannot speak for the FJ blade as I know little about these knives, but I want to make he point that Voos trademarks did vary so a different version is not, in itself, a red flad.

Dave

Hi Dave ,thanks for posting the extra mm's The mark in photo 4 looks like a good match for the one on the gravity knife,Regards Stan

http://www.stan-the-man.tk

Johnny,
Could you please post pics of the inside? I think this piece deserves a closer look.

nats and Dave, thank you very much for showing comparable mm´s.
Dave is #4 with a nickeled blade?

Wotan,

I need to check #4. It is one of a big collection of trademarks, but I am not sure where it came from.

Dave

Hey guys,
I will post more pics. tonight. Anything on the interior that I should concentrate on? The pics. that I have provided so far are admittedly not very good. Stay tuned and later tonight there will be more & better pics.
Thanks for the opinions and input so far. Thanks to Nats and Dave also for the pics. I agree that the mark looks like #4 above.
Until later.
Johnny

Ok more pics.
I must say that the wear in my opinion between the blade and the rest of the knife does match. I respect Frogprince's opinion, since the pics. that I posted previously did not really show the age of the blade. Here are better pics. Again I feel that the bade wear matches the rest of the knife.
The maker mark itself looks very good to me and is deep enough for your fingernail to "drop in".
Anyway: have a closer look:

#2

#3

#4

#5

Gray spots and some spidering,

There was a little rust also on the blade which I removed with a pencil and then polished further with a q-tip and soem semi-chrome.

Where the rust was on the reverse crossguard (thanks dagger addict!)

#8

#9

#10

#11

#12


Number near tip, also slight damage to the tip;

#13

#14

Generally speaking Luftwaffe FliegerKappmesser that show wear/use have blades that show commensurate use. With age/corrosion a separate issue because poor storage is separate and apart from use/wear/sharpening etc.

For myself perhaps the larger issue is an “R.B. Nr.” marked spike along with a trademarked blade. Usually the blades on the R.B. Nr. marked paratrooper knives are blank. Circa November 1940 under the auspices of the Oberkommando des Heeres, the Heereswaffenamt began to adopt letter codes to conceal the makers of various arms which included combat (service) edged weapons for the military with Mundlos, Berg, and E.u.F. Hörster being some of the first. The codes were not adopted overnight and were in the process of being changed over again in 1944 presumably because the Germans believed that the secret manufacturer’s codes had fallen into the hands of Allied intelligence. Which brings us to the “Reichsbetriebsnummer” (R.B. Nr.) which were adopted for the same reason sometime later in 1943.

A 1943 (or later) R.B. Nr. marked military issue (Luftwaffe) knife that also has a trademark??? From my perspective there is no question in my mind that the blade is a replacement. With the question of it being a period or postwar manufactured blade open to discussion - although IMHO there is nothing that precludes anyone from replicating a legitimate period marking on an unmarked blade from any era. And age (corrosion etc.) does not guarantee originality. Having seen some examples of aged/corroded “Olympic” knives with the “Olympic” etching done right over (on top of) the corrosion/wear.

I wish that I could be more positive. But that is my honest assessment of the situation at the moment having very serious doubts about the blade being original to the knife. FP