UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum Not all RZM daggers are the same....

I think that by "dubious" it means that it is another unknown maker. One that eats away at your mind! I am waiting to hear if anyone else has seen the tang marking this dagger has. I think that is a big "clue" as we have not heard of any others so far... Also, Skyline might be on to something. These "clues" are what are going to help at least get an idea of who this maker is. Does anybody else out there own one of these daggers? How many have been seen or known to have traded hands? I am getting the impression that the 188 marked pieces are not very common based on the limited replies from people with experience with these. So far, Dave H. is the only one to have seen one.

Since this is a public forum, any pictures posted are open to interpretation and opinions - positive or negative. That's the nature of a public forum. You can disagree with an opinion but to object to one is counter-productive.

Krause, if you turn the blade point down the tang marks may be AW without the line in the A.

Krause,

Interesting tang markin - "MV" as it looks to me.

I had an NPEA dagger awhile back with that same marking. I sent the pictures to Ron Weinand and he determined the dagger was fake. I am not saying yours is, but just contributing that I had a dagger with this same tang marking once.

Anybody else out there own a RZM 188/3X? Somebody must have one of these! They have been discussed here in the past. What are the tang markings on yours??

Borse- How was it concluded yours was a fake? The tang mark on mine is exactly like the one you show in your picture! Was that crossguard really tight-fitting on the tang, and you didn't want to force it off? I didn't pull mine off because it was very tight, it didn't seem to want to slide over the tang marking. I didn't want to force it and bore the hole any larger by doing so. I hadn't had on that fit so tight before.

Who owns that 188/36 in the picture Dave posted??? I want to see the tang mark.

Krause,

No-the crossguards fit very well, but the dagger could be fully disassembled. I just left them on for that picture.

Ron gave me a series of reasons of why he thought the NPEA dagger a fake: the maker's mark etching depth and placement was one I believe. He didn't like the frog of the dagger (I have a picture of it somewhere) or the color the scabbard was painted either. I can't remember the other reasons. I ended up trading it away as a fake to a dealer in Germany and took the loss.

Gents,

I have taken apart 3 of the 188 daggers. Two had the single large "V" and one had the "MV" as shown above.

I found nothing in those daggers that suggested the daggers were fakes or parts pieces.

Dave

To all who are interested:

I did get a response from Tom Whittmann about this dagger. I sent him several pictures and a good description. He said that it is 100% authentic and the roman numeral is correct for this dagger. He said that it is one of the very first SS daggers to bear the RZM mark, and that he has one pictured on page 20 of his book. Now I don't have the damn book handy! I have to just buy one myself and quit borrowing one from a friend! Anyone have one that they want to part with? Maybe I should post in the wanted section. Otherwise I will have to just buy one off Tom's site. I still want to find a known maker piece with the same tang marking. It seems that this marking is perhaps only seen on this 188 marked dagger?? Something else out there has to have it. It looks like this might be the only hope in finding out who the maker is. I thank all of you who have offered opinions on this dagger!

Krause,
Paul (lakesidetrader) has a good offer on his website for Wittmann's book.

Beautiful original dagger!! I'd put it in my collection! Congrats on your purchase Krause.

i think the thread was about ss daggers with RZM mark, and then got diverted to npea daggers with said mark.......

I have NEVER seen a political blade that was fake that had a RAISED tang mark. Raised tang marks are a very good indicator of an original piece-IMO 99%. Something to look for,

I wonder if that blade on Borse's NPEA dagger was actually good then. I think Ron Weinand said it was other factors besides the tang mark that made him rule it bad. If you look at his tang marking compared to mine, they are EXACTLY alike. See how the "V" is just slightly in front of the "M", they are not exactly lined up. Again, thanks for the replies here, I really appreciate it guys!

My thoughts exactly Kory. Ron is an authority on NPEA daggers however without a hands on inspection how can one say for certain. I saw nothing in the pictures posted that would disuade me. cheers, Ryan

I think a tang-mark alone can not verify authenticity.

Considering that there were an abundance of original war-time forged blades found post-war, these could be the basis of post-war fakers.
Assuming quite a few of these were not already etched, a postwar faker could "just" add the desired etch of maker & motto.
I say "just" as we all know that the etching process is not something anyone can do at the kitchen-table.

So it is really important to look at every aspect of a dagger, not over-focusing on one particular thing.

Just my 0.02$worth of advice

I OWNED A 188/35 WHICH CAME FROM A VET "STORY" I TRADED IT CAUSE I DID NOT LIKE THE BLADE, I STRIPED IT BUT THER WERE NO TANG MARKINGS!!

BLADE!!

188/35 COMPARSION...

SLIM

NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE OF THE 1 3 AND NUMBER 5 IN THE TWO PICS OF THE RZM MARKS. BOTH DAGGERS WERE PASSED AS ORIG ON DIFFERENT FORUMS BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DIFFERENT MARKINGS??

SLIM

See the same curve to the top of the "T" in Treue. Same as I pointed out on mine. I have not seen one like that on another dagger. Am I the only one who is noticing this? Thanks for posting those pictures Slim.

Hi Krause,check out this thread,there is a photo of a 188/36 dagger motto.and it looks like the same curvey T as yours Regards Stan

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/728099473/m/7563074074/p/1

no problem krause......

slim

I think that "curvy T" might be a good clue also. I wonder if anyone has seen it on any other daggers, SS or other. That characteristic, coupled with the unique tang marking, might be a big help in identifying the maker if we can find a known-maker piece that shares both these features. If one turns up, I would feel pretty confident that we might have uncovered the maker. I still don't think this is a very common maker based on the limited number of people who have handled one of these daggers. Or maybe the maker will end up being Eickhorn or something, you never know! The fit and finish is so good, it must be a maker that is known for nice workmanship, but most were at that time so that does not help much. There is NO grip shrinkage.