UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Rohm Dagger Forum Rich.A Herder Rohm??on Ebay

Is it me or is this another new Rohm maker to surface.Once again call me paranoid.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&it...=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014
Regards,Ivan.

100% fake, no doubt about it.
The Rohm inscription is a reproduction.
However, the dagger could be original.

Pat,
I totally agree with you.The thing that gets me is the real ignorance that the fakers seem to have,why not use a known maker and they might just get away with it with a novice collector.The seller only lives 3 miles from my home town,has a skull ring for sale also.
Ivan.

Well, that baby isn't right!

Gailen David

Ivan,

Why don't you 'Ride' over & check this Chap out?
You can tell us about a 1st hand peek into a 'Fraud Shop!'

Best, Dave/dblmed

Dave,
I'm onto it,the seller states that it was found in Germany by a friend who "sounds"things out for him.Next step is to request a hands on examination.
He states that he will sell it for £3500,I bet he will!!!
Ivan.

No hands on needed it's a fake.

Gailen

Gailen,
I agree totally,just wanted to have a bit nosey and a chat with the seller,to see if he actually knows what he is doing or if he has been sold it as an original and is an innocent seller of a fake dagger.There is one bid on it and I don't want anyone to get their fingers burnt,the bidders are being kept secret.
Regards,Ivan.

I guess they are being kept secret! Jeeze!

Gailen David

hey guys Ive been checking out the dagger on ebay Ive just regestered with this site to pick your brains if thats ok Ive seen the close up photos f the blade and it looks genuine and ticks all the boxes all the script is the same colouring and the same depth I seen quite a few fakes and none match so how are you so sure its fake?????
I realise Herder is only known to have inscribed the SS daggers but is that the only reason you think its fake or is there another?
pluss the guys offering not only a 14 day no quibble money back but a life time money back
look forward to hearing before the auction ends
Tony

I contacted the Seller, questioning the blade.

The Seller's response was:

sorry but its no fake and R Herder did indeed make this Model I think you must be assuming its fake because there are no other known inscribed models, It cannot be fake when all the evedence proves otherwise I offer a lifetime gurentee its correct, Ive seen plenty fakes before and this is most definatly not as the sa inscription
the makers stamp and the Rohm inscription have all been made at the same time all are exactly the same colouring and depth i will email you some more photos for you to compare the two if you would like to compare the makers stamp to the inscription I understand your doubts but were you to see this dagger in person you would see why it could not possibly be a fake,
thanks for your comments anyway
and please let me know if you would like me to email you some more photos of the inscription with the makers mark Im sure i could get you rethinking your first thought on the dagger

Additional comments by the Seller, along with this photo...

I hate for you to think im selling a fake dagger note the colouring of the rohm and the makers mark they are exactly the same done at the same time same colouring depth ect were you to see it in person you would without a doubt realise its 100% ok also I doubt for a second if someone could forge this to this standard there would be a lot more on the market

Tony and all,
This is a very well known fake and they are all over the place.
There is absolutely no doubt that it is fake.
If it ain't, I will eat it.
Anyone with some knowledge on these, will tell you that it is an OBVIOUS FAKE.
Just ask anyone with a bit of experience and they will tell you so.
To be quite frank, I've seen better fakes out there but this one is sooooooooooo obvious that it ain't even a good reproduction.
Please, just compare the engraving with an original Rohm ( pic attached ).

LOOK AT THE LETTER "T" ON THE WORD ERNST.

Every single letter is wrong.
The guy who's selling it, doesn't know anything about a Rohm dedicated dagger.

This is not an opinion but a infallible fact.

plese forgive my ignorance are we saying all Rohms shold be totally identical? Ive compaired many of the postings on here and everyone claims theres is the true full rohm and all are different some slight but still different except these last two photos that must be the same dagger as the rust spots are in the exact same places see attachment ive added the two IN s to the photo of what they should look like?

heres a few to compair bairing in mind 1,2 and 4 have all been confirmed original yet all are differnt, personally i think there may have been a few variations to start with as only numbers 1 and 2 are remotely similar shame the full rohm was not shown on number 2,
look forward to coments

so revy] and pat is that the same dagger your both showing odd the rust marks are in exactly the same place?

Great thread!!!

A good learning experience for all of us. It's so plain to see when examples are shown side by side, all the differences shown and how to determine them.

There are minor differences in inscriptions but the major form of the inscription is the same. Remember this a facsmile and was not open major changes in the script. The one shown from E-bay is not even close. It takes someone with experience about five seconds to identify that it's not correct. This has nothing to do with it being an SA or SS dagger.
Not on the same subject but kinda is the fact that collectors sometimes want things to be real so bad that they will make every possible argument to jusify it's originality. I have seen this in even advance collectors.

Gailen David


Gailen David

quote:

Not on the same subject but kinda is the fact that collectors sometimes want things to be real so bad that they will make every possible argument to jusify it's originality. I have seen this in even advance collectors.

How true. I own 2 partials and even found myself doing the same thing.

I have seen it in the flesh,the seller believes it to be right,that is exactly what Gailen was saying.He sells it with a money back guarantee and is happy with that.He says he has been inundated with emails and has had 800 hits on the dagger.
Ivan.

That's great he has had 800 hits on the dagger. I wish the new purchaser the best of luck when he tries to sell it.

Gailen David

I really like the seller's last comment and I quote if I may, " I'm sure the winning bidder will be over the moon with it ! "
Will he ever !

pat im not trying to burn any bridges here but regarding that photo youve posted staing its a original the Z is so different to any other original ive seen posted how ???????
I can see the Z on the photo Rev has posted
Tony

Tony,bladesandblades,
Are you the seller of this dagger or do you have a vested interest in its sale,it is strange that you join this great forum at this time and put up such a defence of what is so obviously not an original Rohm dedication dagger.I have seen it this morning,I believe the seller to be an ok guy who is convinced that his dagger is original,he is not a faker,but has bought a fake,the dagger itself seems ok but the dedication is so wrong.Have you seen a real one in the flesh,do you own a one,because when you do see a real one you will realise the stark difference between that and the one on trial here.
Ivan.

For some unknown reasons, every Henckel full Rohm that you will encounter will have the same identical letter "Z".
I would like to point out though, that only Henckel have that letter "Z" the way it is.
As Gailen mentioned, there were minute differences in the engraving and the letter "Z" is one of them.
My own Henckel was hand inspected by Gailen and it is a textbook original.
There are many other features that makes Henckel very unique. For instance, they only come with the "BO" Gau mark and no others.
Secondly, the Gau mark is always positioned on the far side of the crossguard, instead of the middle position like 99% of them are.
The Henckel maker marked is always very close to the crossguard as compared to a non-Rohm blade.
As you can see, there are many unique features on an Henckel full Rohm.
There are many other unique features but it would be too long to explain.
Hope this help.

This piece can't be defended in any way. It is a fake and not a good one. I rarely make these opinions based on images, but this is a no brainer. I don't think any further discussion on the piece is needed.

Gailen David

I have not shown my Pack as yet but here you go,I hope it passes all the Pack tests,this I feel is what the dedication should look like,on a Pack anyway.
Ivan.

2

3

4

Hey ivan yes I had a vested interest in its sale I had planned on bidding no I dont own one thats why I joined the site to pick everyones brain to see if it was the real deal during which time I even pointed out in the above photo what i thought was wrong with it but I
thought if many of these daggers were slightly different it may still be good.
the only dagger i have is a old rmz hasent even got a handle,sorry if i rattled any cages just wanted to learn.
Tony

5

just checked on it its ended
tony

6

7

Pat thank you so much for the following reply your a star it was really bugging me
Tony



For some unknown reasons, every Henckel full Rohm that you will encounter will have the same identical letter "Z".
I would like to point out though, that only Henckel have that letter "Z" the way it is.
As Gailen mentioned, there were minute differences in the engraving and the letter "Z" is one of them.at

Tony,
Good for you,this is the place to learn,some very nice people who are only willing to help,you will not have rattled any cages at all.What you have to realise is that some of the contributors to this thread have seen these fake inscriptions over and over again and recognise thaem at some distance.If anything this will have saved you some hard earned cash.
Regards,Ivan.

That's good it ended. I'm sure some guy will get stuck with it, No pun intended.

Gailen

The worst part is the scammers runied a VERY nice SA dagger!