UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum Fire Bayonet Thread

Thanks Billy,

I bought it from Brian Maederer a while back. I've seen dress bayos with this mark but not on another Fire bayo. I'm sure you must have one...:)

Cheers,
Fitzer

Fitz,

I asked because Paul Hogle & I had a conversation about just such a piece a week ago. You're right, I do have a L�tters like the one you show. It's the more common of the 2 L�tters marks I've observed on fire bayonets. My problem is I'm so behind in my posting of logos, there's at least 15, maybe 20 I still have to post. Soon I hope.

Thank you Seany and Billy.

Fitzer,nice piece!

Billy,
On page 35,you show a L&E marked piece.Am I seeing this wrong,or is that logo upside down in comparisation with mine?I can't see if it's the scabbard,or the leather washer above
Ever seen,or own a short version of the L&E?

Hi Jeremy,

I'm not sure what page 35 you're referring to, can you post a link? I do know that of the 6 or 8 L&E bayonets I've owned, their logo is sometimes inverted. Their logo can also appear on both the obverse & reverse ricassos. Not sure if there was any rhyme or reason for this except that of the individual who was stamping the blades.

Hi Billy,

I was referring to page 35 of this thread.Nice to know the logos can be at diffirent places,makes it more fun to find them.

Let's bring this thread back to the top.. it's too good to lose.

John

Shucks John, I can't say I disagree. Been too long since I added something to this thread too. There's maybe 20 more to add too, just too much of a lazya$$ sometimes.

Time for a brief update. Sometimes things fall into your lap unexpectedly & that's always a treat. Sometimes things were in your lap tp begin with & you never even knew it, such is the case here.

Last night I'm sitting on the couch in a moment of relative solitude, a rarity unto itself. While watching a movie I decided to fiddle around with a bayonet or two. this one was an etched Polizei bayonet I've had a year or two now. It also had a Polizei NCO knot & a black patent leather frog that I attached to it when I got it just to dress it up a bit.

One of the nice features of this frog was that it's leather & stitching are heavy duty. There's also a metal strip in the center of it to give it some added strength & straightness. Here's a shot of the frog.

I don't know why but I flipped it over & took notice to something I hadn't seen previously. Can you see what I'm talking about? Here's a reverse shot.

It ain't easy to see but it must have just been the way the light hit the back of the frog, there I notice a scarcely seen distributor's mark, Peter Wolter Sohne, Echsweiler. I should preface this by saying scarcely seen on a fireman's bayonet. On a frog, never before this had I seen such a mark.

It's lightly done but in the same font as on the blades. I can only imagine how many such marks I may have come across only to miss them. The beauty of it was I got a nice, rare addition to my collection & it didn't cost me a dime.

This is the best shot I got of the mark out of 10 shots. Now I've got to go digging to find one of the bayonets to match it up with. So far I've seen 3 distributors names on frogs, L&E, Carl Henkel & now Peter Wolter.

I finally got the third Linnenbrugger TM. I had been looking for years for the small one on the left, but could never find one in good condition at a good price. Good things do come to those who have patience.

Billy

Is your Linnenbrugger TM's facing the same as these.

Terry,

The 3 L&E examples I have are all as yours are, identical in fact. My example with the larger 15mm logo (your center piece) is dual marked to Eickhorn ('35-'41) on the reverse. My name only mark is an unmarked Pack with brass offset rivets. My 10mm logo is unmarked by maker but likely a Horster product. Two of the three have L&E frogs with them too, as they came from vets.

Didn't know you were looking for a 10mm example. I've sold some nice ones over the years that I picked up as extras. Guess I should have asked

Billy

I found this one on eban.

My middle one is also Eickhorn marked the other two not. I only have one frog it is also Llinnenbugger marked. Never seen such a thin leather buffer, looks original.

And, here's mine ... does this one look familiar, Billy?

Eickhorn mark on one side and L+E on the other, with an L+E marked frog.

John

I do John, still tryin' to remember why I sold it.

Hi! please do anybody know this mark? I've searched the net and find that rudolf Schmidt was a known razor blades maker from the 20's, did anybody have seen this mark on any other dagger/bayo? best regards

There is a diiferent version of this trademark shown in Fisher along with the statemetn that Schmidt made SAs and HJ knives.

John

In my opinion this TM is very hard to find. I have found that edged blade makers sometimes used an altered TM on there dress bayonets. Below is one that I own on a short blade Heer bayonet.

thanks to both, so is a rare maker? t will be very interesting to see the other mark for daggers, what the logo was; an indian? best regards

This figure is the father of the Pirelli tire guy!

I think you are confusing your tires.
He is known as "Michelin Man":-0)
Seiler

Yeah, one of those guys...

Rumor has it that Michelin Man is the illegitimate child of the Pirelli guy.

I think it's supposed to be a kid's ragdoll or something like that. Very nice logo Nacho!

Good Sir William,

Just wanted to personally thank you for this fabulous thread. You and the boys have put together something of value for all of us to enjoy, study and marvel at, whether we're bayonet collectors or enjoy collecting something entirely different as our main hobby interests.

Billy, not only do I consider you to be a long-time, trusted friend, my hat's off to you as one of the sharpest minds in edged weapon collecting as well as several other aspects of German miltary memorabilia. This thread backs up that statement in trump and stands as testimony to the fact.

I spent last night and this morning reading page one to thirty-nine, and can't begin to tell all of you what a fine job you did here. I was literally spellbound and couldn't believe some of the wonderful visual specimens you gents took the time to post - Billy, Denny G, Tom K, John Z, Will J, Andrei, Peter B, Seany and all the rest, many thanks to all of you gentlemen for this outstanding service and reference.

I sincerely wish all of you the very best in collecting!

Bill Warda

Gentlemen,

I'd like to share this pair of WKC Feuerwehr sawback bayos with you for some comments and opinions. One is a short model marked with a Weimar style logo, a knight's head sans lettering. This example has all-steel, magnetic fittings, except for the grip rivets. The second is a long model bearing the later 3R knight's head, having the manufacturer's initials below, WKC. Only the blade and grip rivets are magnetic on this example.

There are slight differences between these two patterns. The first variation being the grip plates and fastening rivets. The short version has matte-color plates that are patterned with elongated diamond shapes and larger, domed, alloy rivets. The long design has glossy, black synthetic plates with a smaller diamond motif and also smaller, steel, dome-head rivets.

The most noticeable variance between the patterns is the configuration of the spine. The saw edges are completely different, like night and day. The short blade has a more pronounced angular tooth pattern, the type we normally expect to see on a sawback blade, sharp and close to 1/8 of an inch deep.

The longer, later pattern has a less conspicuous arrangement having no sharp points to the teeth. There's almost a rounded, curved finish to the slope behind the points. The depth of the saw configuration is much more shallow than it's short counterpart, approximately half, or 1/16 of an inch high. The entire arrangement is uniform, consistently plated and factory-finished in this manner, nothing amateur to indicate a later, post-production grinding. This anomaly is very clearly and easily seen in the photos.

Does anyone have a good explanation for this or have a similar example? I have a few sawback bayonets in my collection but have never seen one like this before. Any comments and ideas are very welcomed. Glad to be able to contribute something to this fine outstanding thread.

Thanks and best regards!

Bill

2/3

3/3

Willi,

What an excellent comparison of different period production sawbacks by WKC. The pair really make a sweet display when shown together, I think you did well with them. Finding a nicely conditioned sawback is not as easy as it once was but getting suitable accouterments can be both exasperating & expensive.

The early short model is really something, I love these early period production pieces. They really have a lot of weight to them & are almost always very solidly made. I've found despite their age, they usually hold up very well even with some postwar abuse. WKC almost always used the same hilt type that was used (made by?) Holler & Holler produced examples. I've rarely found solid, magnetic examples of this type hilt so I think you have something special here.

The early maker WKC maker mark is also really nice, I often try to surmise when blades like this were made & again when they were paired with a hilt. I have a very early Eickhorn short sawback with the single oval mark which obviously predates the 3R.i wonder how long it sat on an Eickhorn shelf only to be mated with a hilt & sold to some late Weimar/early 3R Feuerwehrmann.

The long model is also something wonderful. Being a later produced item, it appears to exhibit the elements I'm more used to seeing with WKC, plated, lighter hilt & the later Bakelite pattern. The sawteeth pattern is indeed interesting, as you noted the teeth seem quite a bit shorter than the early short model next to it. Initially I thought maybe this was a sign that it was "made" into a sawback postwar but I don't think that anymore. I also thought maybe someone ground it down (why ?) but again, it doesn't appear to be the case. It may simply be the later WKC sawback pattern. Sadly I don't have such an example to compare it to but I'll check with a friend who has quite a lot of sawbacks. He may be able to confirm my theory. Upon close inspection, the pattern looks too good to be anything but factory.

Some WKC sawbacks also had an interesting feature. The swedge feature is something usually seen only on some short model Feuerwehr bayonet blades. I've noticed that some WKC long model sawbacks also incorporated a swedge feature. S far, they are the only manufacturer I've observed to do so.

Thanks for sharing your beautiful new additions Willi.

Bill,

Billy is the expert on these FW bayonets and has given a great overview of yours. I will also note that the short model has the rounded top frog stud that I have come to associate with some WKC Extra-Seitengewehre. The long model scabbard has the more often seen flat top frog stud. WKC must have used two different scabbard part suppliers or had two different dies for these frog studs. At any rate, I wanted to point out that difference as well.

I'm always going back to this thread, glad now it has been pinned up there at the top, means I don't have to go searching for it when it drops down a bit.
Bill they are a couple of exquisite sawbacks, beautifully photographed as well.
Thanks to all who have contributed to this great thread.

Gary

Billy, George and Gary,

Your observations, detailed info and kind words are very much appreciated, thank you.

It's always a special treat to hear someone who's very familiar with a given subject point out facts and nuances that I would have simply overlooked. That's what makes these forums such an excellent place to ask, contribute and learn, from those with much more experience and expertise in areas that we're not too well versed in.

Looking forward to the next postings in this fine thread.

Best regards and good collecting!

W~

Back to the top

I just scored a Luetters Loewen Werk today.

Nice pick up. There are 3 versions of the company's TM on TR dress bayonets. I have one like yours on a short bladed Fireman's bayonet.

I should take a better picture of the makers mark.

Here is a better picture of the maker mark.

Here are the three versions of your TM.

Fresh from Wittmann is this short Eickhorn fire bayonet with a single oval TM!

BillyG showed us the same mark on a short sawback fire bayo way earlier in this thread.

I also show pics of my three short fire bayos (single oval, double oval and 35-41 mark) and my two short sawbacks (double oval and 35-41 mark).

John

John,

A beautiful addition to your Eick collection. I know of only two other single oval fire bayonets. Both are sawbacks & I am lucky enough to own one of them. It looks as pristine as the day it was made, those early Eick pieces really do show their quality these many decades later. Congrats!