UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Rohm Dagger Forum MY NEW SA.ROHM #2

AFTER RETURNING MY LAST SA. ROHM I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO AQUIRE ANOTHER ONE.LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.I HAVE A 7 IMG]http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l228/JoeLinge/FullRohm066.jpg[/IMG]















DAY RETURN POLICY.THANKS IN ADVANCE. JOE

I HAVE A 7 DAY INSPECTION PERIOD. THANKS IN ADVANCE. JOE.

S
ORRY I LEFT THIS ONE OUT. JOE

Joe - send it back. You are getting hosed !!

The scabbard has a horrible refinishing job. Just like the bad Selheimer you sent back. See below.

The grip has been partially, but badly refinished, Joe, and the fit to lower crossguard is not good.

Blade and inscription ? There are some strange polishing marks, but I can't tell anything from much from the pics.

As I said, send it back.

Dave
PS - I hope these pictures are not going to disappear too because of the bad news.

DAVE, PLEASE EXPLAIN I DONT UNDERSTAND,THE SEILHEIMER SCABBARD IS SMOOTH AND NEW LOOKING WHILE THIS ONE IS ROUGH AND AGED.AS FAR AS THE GRIP GOES IT IS VERY TIGHT.MY PICTURES ARE STILL UP OM MY LAST WEEKS POST.IM CONFUSED. JOE.

Both those scabbards have funny looking brown that is nowhere near the original*. I can't tell whether it is rough or smooth from pictures, either way,, it is not near real.

The grip is a bad attempt at refinishing in my opinion, tight or not. But, if you like it, jump on it.

Dave

*I have seen a couple of badly refined SS scabbards with that same effect, only it was bluish rather than as above.

The grip looks original and unmolested. Correct high neck eagle. The fit to the crossguard seen in the photo that shows the benchmark is not that uncommon. I have an early Eick with the same characteristic and I've seen it on a lot of others. Can't say too much about the rest of the dagger without better photos though.

Dave, i tend to agree with you on the scabbard, but the most important part (the blade) is to far away to even make a call on.

Yes, I would like to see what Dave sees in that blade to call it bad. I must be missing something.
I would like to find grips that fit that snug aganist the crossguards. But maybe my eyes are bad. - Wagner -

HERE ARE CLEARER PICTURES OF THE BLADE,WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ?




JOE

This one is a much better repro than you other Rohm but still fake in my opinion. Sorry for the bad news !
Joe, compare your Rohm inscription with the one listed on Bill Shea's web page and you will see that they are quite different, eventhough they are from the same maker marked.

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Edged/e435.htm

Here what I think.
Your dagger and blade are original but it was a full ground Rohm that has been re-etched with a post war made Rohm inscription.
You can see that the crossgrain is not "natural" on the reverse side of the blade and quite different from where the motto is.
I'm pretty certain that it has been fully grounded at the manufactured.

Based on the crossgraining, it looks like it may be a ground Rohm that has been re-etched. The inscription also looks low to the center of the blade.

Skyline, you and I came to the same reasoning.

PAT, THE LAST ROHM I HAD YOU POINTED OUT THE MISTAKE OF 3 LETTERS NOT RIGHT.THIS ONE THE LETTERS ARE PERFECT AS FAR AS MY UNTRAINED EYE SEES.BUT YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THEM BEING A LITTLE LOW.COULDNT THIS OF HAPPENED WHEN THEY LAID OUT THE TEMPLATE ?HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN AN INSCRIPTION A LITTLE LOW OR HIGH BEFORE ? JOE

I'm glad you were able to chime in and edit you first post after reading mine, Pat.

Joe it's the crossgraining that tells the story. I have a couple of ground Rohms with the same re-crossgraining. Another way to make sure would be to measure the thickness of the blade using calipers.

Joe, the fact that the inscription is a bit offset is NOT much concern to me.
I've seen many original mottos and inscriptions not being completely in a straight horizontal line.
The problem is the fact that the blade has certainly been fully buffed out, as the maker marked, the motto and the Eickhorn position close to the lower crossguard are all textbook.
However, the major problems is the fact that once again, many letters are not identical, they are very close but not close enought to be original.
Just give me a second, I will post some very close up pics of what I mean.

Joe...After looking at the three daggers you have posted (all being suspect) im beginning to wonder.

Here we go !
I don't want to go through every letter of the inscription but I just took the most obvious flaws.
I have pointed out with a pen, the letters that are most obvious.
I have no doubt in my mind that this Rohm dagger is a complete fake and nobody should have any doubts either after seeing this.

2

3

4

Last pic.

That blade has been worked to death. That dagger is something you want to walk away from.

PAT AND SKYLINE, THANKS FOR SHOWING THESE POINTS OF DISCUSSION.I HAVE TO AGREE THAT THE PICTURES DO MAKE THE BLADE LOOK GROUND,BUT IN MY HAND BOTH SIDES OF THE BLADE ARE THE SAME.THE RIDGE LINE IS STRAIGHT AND PRONOUNCED.I CANT SEE WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE LETTERS YOU POINTED TO WITH YOUR BALLPOINT PEN.IN MY OPINION IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST AND LAST LETTER OF THE INSCRIPTION ITS RIGHT ON THE RIDGE LINE.THAN THE CENTER BOWES DOWN CAUSING SOME DISTORTION.YOU SAID THAT THIS ISNT A MAJOR CONCERN THAT ITS NOT STRAIGHT ACROSS. JOE

Joe,

These guys are just trying to help you and you should listen to them: get your money back and forget about this piece of junk.

Keep in mind that: real SA full Röhms are EXTREMELY rare and therefore almost never offered for sale on the market, these daggers reside almost forever in advanced collections.

If you really want to own one right now, buy at least a dagger that has a correct scabbard, original crossgrain and a matching (but maybe postwar) etch. A piece that you can sell later if you want to. You will die with the pieces you showed us here...

Best greetings,

Herman

Joe

The inscription is way off as Pat pointed out, also the grip looks more like an E-Pack to me than an Eickhorn, it even has the characteristic oak grain and also the copper SA roundel as seen sometimes on early Packs.

Red

For one moment, I thought that I had to change my eye prescription.
I'm glad to see that I'm not alone out there who thinks that both inscriptions are not the same.

DAVE AND RICK, HOW DOES MY SCABBARD DIFFER FROM THESE POSTED ON THE SA FORUM ?IM WILLING TO LEARN. JOE

http://johnsonreferencebooks.com/catalogue/weapons/daggers/sa/19678.htm

Another example (and acceptable???) SA Ground/Re-Etched Röhm Dagger!?!?!?

Hey Joe where you going with that gun in your hand……

Recently these re-etched Rohms have been crawling out all over the place. Someone is really making a full-time career out of this.
Too bad they are rewening perfectly good period pieces.
And what's wit Johnson selling a re-etch for $1K??? It is OK because he advertises it as a re-etch, but I would pay several hundred for that dagger without the re-etch, but with the re-etch you could not give it to me!
How can a re-etch be worth more than a fully ground Rohm???????
I guess we should all re-etch our ground Roems and double our $$$????????????????

PS. Joe- You might want to SERIOUSLY reconsider your choice in dealers....

Joe..I suggest you look at a few original scabbards (finish, texture, wear) in person, before you even think about getting another political dagger.And if you cant see the difference , i suggest you maybe think about other types of daggers, besides political.This is two for two on bad full Rohms, care to tell us who sold them to you?

Joe...After reading my post i got to thinking maybe i came across as to harsh (not intended),beside even if it is a reantozied (sp) scabbard thats not the main concern. The money part is the blade (people can live with a reworked scabbard) if the blade is good.

Joe / Wagner:

Look at the crossgrain marking on Patrice's dagger shown above. That is what it should look like. The marks on the dagger you show are not correct.And, there are some strange grind marks near the tip in the second picture.

The third and fourth photo show very different colors on the top and bottom of the grip. I think it is a poorly refinished grip, but that is just my opinion.

I cannot tell about the variety of scabbards you posted in that pic Joe, but I can yell you that the closeups you posted have a look that I would not touch.

I would say return the dagger.

Dave

Thanks Dave.
I see now what you mean regarding the crossgrain. It is strange. Doesn't look like
period factory crossgraining. But has all the delicate dark burnishing intact, but blade has
grinding/sanding marks in various angles.
Very suspicious indeed. - Wagner

THE DAGGER IS ON ITS WAY BACK.I HAVE A 100% RETURN POLICY ON IT.NOW IM TWO FOR TWO IN TWO WEEKS.AT LEAST THE HURRICANE IS PASSING. JOE.

I thought there was something in the neighborhood of 36,000 SA Rohms made? That's not exactly rare is it? JohnJ

Research commissioned by GDC member Gustavo indicates that there were 200,000 Rohm daggers produced. However, after June 30, 1934 they were prohibited in wear unless the inscription was removed. Most SA (and SS) men complied with this order so relatively few Rohm daggers still have the complete inscription.